Zigzag Idiot and the ladder of Objective Reason

[Zigzag Idiot]

Pondering 

"Questioning makes one open, makes one sensitive, makes one humble. We don't suffer from our questions, we suffer from our answers. Most of the mischief in the world comes from people with answers, not from people with questions." (Jacob Needleman)

 

"Good Lord, help me avoid the pitfalls of judging, knowing, finding and concluding." (Paul Beidler) 

 

BEARING UNPLEASANT MANIFESTATIONS

“One sign of Being is the capacity to bear the unpleasant manifestations of others. Why is this a sign of greater Being? The answer is that you cannot do this unless you have seen in yourself what you dis-like in others...When you have just criticized someone, go over what you said carefully and apply it to yourself. This neutralizes poison in you.” V. 1, pp. 168, 176 

 

“It is impossible to endure one another’s unpleasant manifestations in the right sense of the meaning of the word unless we see our own unpleasant manifestations and know them and accept them...(We) begin to realize our own helplessness, so we can endure the helpless- ness of others.” V. 3, p. 832 

[Wisebaxter]

On 17/03/2019 at 3:58 AM, Zigzag Idiot said:

I wouldn't have said that if wasn't something that's been with me all through life. There hasn't been a major revelation but hundreds of small ones over the years. 

I could easily be wrong and it's not that important to me. Just something to express my openness towards reincarnation. As a kid I couldn't stand to watch movies or anything that was set in that time period. that time period (1890 -1950). 

Im British at heart in a way. Beatles, Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, Elo, Clapton ,,,, great! Not so much for The Rolling Stones. Love Monty Python, Faulty Towers and others. This doesn't really say anything though. A few years ago on an elevator at a Casino on the Mississippi River for some reason, 3 women assumed I was from The U.K. for some reason. They actually said that I looked British!

Anyway, that's the short story on that. 

Hope things are going ok with your boundary melting medicine. Sounds like it was but this is at least 3 hours later. 

Enjoy your trip,,,,

Interesting that you're so passionate about English artists and culture, definitely. One think I've learned it, our intuition is rarely wrong. If you're thinking it and feeling it in your heart, then it's true. That's god's mind you have there after all

Yeah the latest trip was amazing. Had a lot of insights about how we wear all these masks in our life. Also went to the library and sat watching a book shelf dance whilst listening to Shpongle lol. That was the next day and I still getting visuals. LSD is just too damn awesome for words. You planning to trip any time soon?

[Zigzag Idiot]

8 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

Interesting that you're so passionate about English artists and culture, definitely. One think I've learned it, our intuition is rarely wrong. If you're thinking it and feeling it in your heart, then it's true. That's god's mind you have there after all

Yeah the latest trip was amazing. Had a lot of insights about how we wear all these masks in our life. Also went to the library and sat watching a book shelf dance whilst listening to Shpongle lol. That was the next day and I still getting visuals. LSD is just too damn awesome for words. You planning to trip any time soon?

I forgot. Oliver Cromwell is in my family tree on my Dads side. 

Regarding my next trip. It's just a matter of sourcing, pretty much.

lts good to hear you didn't enter any dark territory and it sounds like some good integration is coming out of it. I told you in direct message about my one trip on dmt about 18 months ago but I've never mentioned it on the forums. I think I mentioned to you that it was very unpleasant experience. It was 4 hours of a sound similar to Tibetan horns, rotating geometric shapes and everything red in color,,,,with a sense of heaviness. Me and a friend happened onto someone who offered it. Just by sight he put some in an emptied out supplement capsule. One for each of us. He told us we had to snort it. My friend forgot and later swallowed it and got nothing from it. I followed instructions and tripped really hard for four hours and about 4 hours of comedown. It exhausted me. I was stupid about it. I don't even know what kind of dmt it was. One reason I want to investigate is seeing that so many are doing specifically 5 meo dmt and are really getting something out of it. In the meantime I've read Rick Strauman's DMT The Spirit Molecule. So, my curiosity is involved again. Not to mention what Leo is saying.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot
Last sentence added

[Zigzag Idiot]

                                                                                      Maurice Nicoll

Maurice Nicoll's The Psychological Commentaries on The Teaching of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky is a five volume 1760 page set that is a treasure for understanding the Work, and for many is a joy to read unlike Gurdjieff's ALL AND EVERYTHING. The influence of a Fourth Way teacher early in my discovery of the Work convinced me to buy the set which, at the time meant picking up used copies as encountered on the net for around $40 to $60 per volume. About $300 for the whole set. The stack looked so intimidating that I put off reading them for about 6 years but when I did, I feel in love with them. Being the written transcripts of Nicoll's weekly Gurdjieff group lectures, they are extremely readable. So much that when I finished I immediately reread the 1760 page set. An online Fourth Way acquaintance shared this 130 page condensed summary of the Commentaries this last year. For serious students of the Fourth Way ideas, it's a treasure twice over,,,

L

https://inner-world-books.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Gems_of_Wisdom.pdf

Ouspensky decifered and articulated The Fourth Way better than Gurdjieff but many, including myself, gain the most understanding from reading Maurice Nicoll. One of my favorite humorous quotes from Nicoll's Commentaries about how we are often unable to quiten the mind:

Nicoll psychological commentaries page 683.

Have you got sufficient inner observation? Have you cleared and well dug a big space in your mind through the practice of inner attention and put a hedge round it and a gate so that you can hear the click of the gate and watch this darling little thought coming up the drive all ready to say: “Oh, how tired I am,” etc.? I fancy that once we let it in very far every thought gets hold of us and wrings us, takes our blood, makes us react, talk, behave, in a certain way, and then, satisfied with having dined off us, it retires for a time.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot
Replaced the word usually with 'often'

[Zigzag Idiot]

The Heartmath Institute talks about a balanced resonance that the heart gets into. There's an entrainment with the prefrontal lobes that occurs simultaneously. The actual electromagnetic waves produced by the thumping of the heart create a field that they have measured out at around 10-15 feet away from the body. They claim when we're are in a balanced state, our personal  electromagnetic wavefield expands.

Itzhak Bentov was a European genius who was writing books about this stuff in the 1970's.  Stalking The Wild Pendulum is one of my all-time favorite book Titles.

 

With new studies and increasing technological sophistication, Joseph Chilton Pearce pushed the ideas further 20 years later around 2000.

[Zigzag Idiot]

In my morning I CHING reading, I got hexagram 51 lines 1 and 5 which resulted in a second Hexagram 45.

                                                    Sex energy

In Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson, there are 3 categories of food for three brained beings. Ordinary food for the planetary body, air is the second being food, impressions (visual;sensory) are the third being food.

Wrong use of sexual energy is articulated as expressing negative emotions as well as the habit of being fidgety. The necessity of Conscious suffering is buried under a mountain of words which many end up deciphering as Conscious intake of air and Conscious intake of impressions or in other words - being present. Transmutation of the sexual substance is also necessary but on the other hand, (no pun intended) complete abstinence is said to produce two distinct pathological side effects.

Will Mesa using quotes from 'The Tales', elaborates on this-

Transmutation of the sexual substance enables us to connect with other worlds, as well as allowing us to have direct connection with other people. This connectivity cannot and is not proper to the three lower three centers. We can see the world and other’s worlds directly, without the filters introduced by the functionality of the lower three centers. Hence the importance of transmutation of the sexual substance.

For many centuries, monks of every age have engaged in the practice of sexual abstinence as way of transmutation of the sexual substance. However, as it is clearly stated in the book, abstinence does not work:

“At the present time, very many of these ‘monasteries’ exist there, and these innumerable ‘monks’ who enter them do indeed strictly abstain from the ejection from themselves in the customary way of the being-Exioëhary or sperm formed in them; but of course, no sensible result at all is ever obtained from this abstinence of theirs, and it is not obtained, because the thought has ceased even to enter the heads of these unfortunate ‘contemporary’ monks that although it is indeed possible, by means of these substances Exioëry formed in them, to perfect themselves, yet this can proceed exclusively only if the second and third being-foods are intentionally absorbed and consciously digested in one’s presence, and this is possible exclusively only if all the parts of one’s presence have been accustomed beforehand consciously to fulfill both sacred being-Partkdolg-duties, that is to fulfill ‘conscious labors’ and ‘intentional sufferings.’”

Two serious effects of this abstinence are also mentioned in the book:

“The first kind of action of this definite substance consists in this, that it promotes the depositing of superfluous what is called ‘Karatsiag,’ or, as they call it there, ‘fat.’ And its second kind of action promotes the arising and the dispersing over the whole planetary body of what are called ‘Poisonioonoskirian-vibrations.’

“The consequence of all this is that in the first case these terrestrial abstaining monks become extraordinarily, as it is usually said there, fat, and sometimes one indeed meets among these fat monks specimens with such an abundant deposit of fat, that they could give many points to that form of being there which they expressly fatten in order to increase this same fat in their planetary bodies, and this form of being they call there ‘pig.’

“And in the second case, on the contrary, these abstaining monks become, as it is also usually said there, ‘meager-thin’; and the action of the ‘Poisonioonoskirian-vibrations’ which penetrate through them is chiefly evident in their general psyche which becomes sharply dual and the manifestations of which are divided into two diametrically opposite kinds – the outer, visible and for show, sensed by everyone around them, and the inner and hidden, which the ordinary beings there, especially the contemporary, are entirely incapable of ascertaining The  or perceiving – namely, in their outer visible manifestations, these ‘Poisonioonoskirian-monks’ appear to be what your favorites would express as ‘bigots’ of a high degree; and in their hidden inner manifestations, not shown to others, what your favorites would call ‘expert cynics,’ also of a high degree.”

I was able to verify these two facts during a four year stay at a Chan (Zen) meditation center. The fat monks all they cared about was to end the satsang so they could go to the basement to have a drink and a piece of cake. The thin monks were indeed expert cynics.

 

Will Mesa also states-

It is quite obvious from the quote above that transmutation of the sexual substance which is the result of the transformation of the first being-food, demands serious practice of “conscious labors” and “intentional suffering.” The only problem is that these two being-Partkdolg-duty are not specifically spelled out in the book, except only to say that the best form of “intentional suffering” is to bear the unpleasant manifestation of other beings during one’s shared existence with them.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot

[Zigzag Idiot]

I appreciate the influence of everyone's musical tastes. It made me realize what a simpleton and dinosaur I am.

There were 25-30 kids in the group I went to kindergarten with. With my birthday on September 1, the last two weeks in August when I started, I was still a 4 year old. About a month or two into the school year, we had all learned a little song that we all sang together after after the pledge of allegiance. We all sat in a big oblong circle utilizing a rectangular room. All I remember is it was a song about animals walking single file or something like that. One morning when we sang the song, I repeated the chorus for another circle maybe 4 instead of 3 times. The reason I didn't notice I was the only one singing was because I was screaming it as loud as I could, oblivious to everything except my intention of volume. Actually I didn't sing a full repeat but maybe about 2/3 when I suddenly became aware of the absolute stillness and quiet and all those eyes looking at me. I encountered the eternity that's within the second hand of the clock, so to speak. I really felt embarrassment and shame. After half an eternity Mrs Sanders, the veteran Kindergarten teacher slowly directed the class' attention toward the next activity after she asked me, are you finished? I think I may have just nodded my head.

I've always had this getting lost in my own world kinda condition, especially with music . It's separate but similar in ways to the Solar essence type. Butters on South Park has a lot of Solar qualities. Mostly it's the naivety and obliviousness. I'm probably as much Butters as I am Stan, and a my ego has most  of  Cartman's qualities.

[Wisebaxter]

On 19/03/2019 at 4:12 AM, Zigzag Idiot said:

I forgot. Oliver Cromwell is in my family tree on my Dads side. 

Regarding my next trip. It's just a matter of sourcing, pretty much.

lts good to hear you didn't enter any dark territory and it sounds like some good integration is coming out of it. I told you in direct message about my one trip on dmt about 18 months ago but I've never mentioned it on the forums. I think I mentioned to you that it was very unpleasant experience. It was 4 hours of a sound similar to Tibetan horns, rotating geometric shapes and everything red in color,,,,with a sense of heaviness. Me and a friend happened onto someone who offered it. Just by sight he put some in an emptied out supplement capsule. One for each of us. He told us we had to snort it. My friend forgot and later swallowed it and got nothing from it. I followed instructions and tripped really hard for four hours and about 4 hours of comedown. It exhausted me. I was stupid about it. I don't even know what kind of dmt it was. One reason I want to investigate is seeing that so many are doing specifically 5 meo dmt and are really getting something out of it. In the meantime I've read Rick Strauman's DMT The Spirit Molecule. So, my curiosity is involved again. Not to mention what Leo is saying.

@Zigzag Idiot Wow, 4hrs....I thought DMT trips usually only lasted 15mins or so. Do you think it's because you snorted it? What made it such a bad experience, the sheer length of it? Or that feeling of heaviness you mentioned? People usually say those geometric shoes are beautiful, but that wasn't your experience? 

Yeah 5-MeO DMT is supposed to be a completely different beast. I'm working my way up to that one. Have some more LSD arriving today and am tempted to trip again, even though it's only been a week lol

Great journalisms by the way...those posts your posting about look awesome. Gonna out them on my list. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

22 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Zigzag Idiot Wow, 4hrs....I thought DMT trips usually only lasted 15mins or so. Do you think it's because you snorted it? What made it such a bad experience, the sheer length of it? Or that feeling of heaviness you mentioned? People usually say those geometric shoes are beautiful, but that wasn't your experience? 

Yeah 5-MeO DMT is supposed to be a completely different beast. I'm working my way up to that one. Have some more LSD arriving today and am tempted to trip again, even though it's only been a week lol

Great journalisms by the way...those posts your posting about look awesome. Gonna out them on my list. 

Thanks! @Wisebaxter

Yes, investigating this revealed that snorting it produces a long trip. Next time I would like to try smoking it so it's just an intense 20 minute trip. 

There are several factors which made it a somewhat of a bad trip. Uncertainty and doubt for one. At the time I didn't even know it was Dmt. The friend of a friend who gave it to me just said "it's a synthesized mushroom from the Middle East". Thinking, what the hell, I'll give it a try, I was really too cavalier about it all. Even though I knew about dmt from being a fan of Terrence McKenna Youtubes, it wasn't until after the trip that I found out what it was. So there was this complete uncertainty about what I was getting into. Also, in a weird synchronicity, the friend I asked to babysit me, through an extremely unfortunate event in timing kind of turned against me in a way or so I thought,,, yes, but not really. One of those hard to explain situations between old friends. A misunderstanding in other words. This happens not long after I snorted it. So here I am starting to trip but at the same time, feel the need to start explaining or defending myself in regards to another situation. This is what really put the screws to me. Thank goodness my friend really is a friend and she waited for another day in order for me to make clear about this other misunderstanding . The timing of all this though caused me to completely fight back and resist the trip. It's hard to fully explain the stress this caused me. I ended up alternating between laying flat out on the couch/floor/ground getting lost in this other world anytime I closed my eyes and then clinging to my friend like a juvenile monkey hanging onto its mother. I remember her laughing as she went from room to room in the house or outside and I tagged along holding on to her with one hand or both arms around her. Probably also the shit I was saying was cracking her up. It seemed like half an eternity before it came to an end. Thank goodness also that my friend really proved her friendship in shelving the issue at the beginning of the trip and did lookout for me while I was kinda helpless. But the tone that was set at the beginning on top of the uncertainty of what I had even sorted made for way too much ambiguity. I live and learn.

Afterward I was able to track down the friend of a friend who gave it. He let me look at the label on the foil like pouch he still had and I was able to barely make out the word dimethyltryptamine.

[Zigzag Idiot]

                                                                      Inner Silence

I can't make the mind be quiet but in realizing being, the mind can be let go of. Or the mind can be held onto and just the thoughts can be let go of. It's a multiple choice Universe.

Feel free to add valid options to the multiple choice list.

[Zigzag Idiot]

This is a description of the spirit sensing part of the Keyserling wheel which corresponds with the astrological sign of Virgo which is my Sun sign. It also seems to echo many of the qualities of the 6 Enneatype. 

ANALYZE/DISTINGUISH: SPIRIT-SENSING. The adjective - 5 - pertains to analysis, to distinguishing one from another. Its archetypal symbol or myth is Mercury. Mercury involves qualitative discernment and the impulse to judge and rate. It is the "either-or" dissective counterpoint to "both-and" synthesis. The complementary impulse is the first, healing synthesis. The personality type is called the "Status Seeker" or "Performer" or "Motivator". They can be narcissistic, deceptive and pretentious, more concerned with the appearances and trappings of success in their work than with real accomplishments. They are frequently self- assured and energetic, but often too quick to accept the easy answer to a problem, and try to succeed in work through narrow specialization, frequently failing to see the forest for the trees. They tend to be the "Type A" personalities who are ambitious, overly-competitive or "work-aholics". They can also be genuinely-productive, authentic, good motivators and promoters, efficient, knowledgeable and accepting of their limitations, with many outstanding inner qualities and good judgment.

The other 11 types are listed lower down on this webpage.

http://www.chanceandchoice.com/course-overview/time-cycles/

[Zigzag Idiot]

                       

    The passion of anger                           Healing                                    Forgiveness 

 

 

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

With regards to the Fourth Way usage of the term Inner or Internal considering, this video of Leo's is the most relevant one I've seen so far. I found it last night and am  only half way through it but it is really, really good!

"I am completely independent of the good or bad opinions of others".

[Zigzag Idiot]

My mother made me take piano lessons when I was little for about 4 years. There was a time when I was 10 - 12 years old that I was obsessed with the rock group ABBA. Although I really liked Bjorn's name, I couldn't decide weather I wanted to be Bjorn or Benny. I constantly daydreamed about Jetsetting around the world as a part of this European rock group landing in a helicopter often among screaming fans jumping up and down. I was just lovesick about it. For this to never become a reality was just too horrible to think about. I wanted it so bad I thought I would fucking die.

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

It's verifyable that on the level of personality, there is a definite tendency to project ones shadow onto others and so not claim it in oneself. There seems to be layers of depth to this.

Its common to be annoyed or to even hate others who closely share our own chief feature (blindspot)  to an extent. Shadow material which is repressed, needs to have the light of Consciousness reveal and heal. I catch a glimpse of being a know-it-all  and then I overcompensate into false humility. Like a Zigzag Idiot who has five Friday's in a week.

I think quite a few people who are exposed to the idea of everyone having a psychological blindspot immediately has personal experiences which come to mind on the surface of this subject. 

I've had a realization about bringing up issues like projection, imagination, lying, self deception, self importance, spiritual egotism, false personality, It provokes some people but not others. I still catch my ego projecting in different ways. I think everyone psychologically projects onto there's. It's everywhere. Even so called awakened or enlightened people seem to do it to some extent. If nothing else, we project labels onto people. Or find a way to categorize them in semiconscious ways.

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

I had a great father. He was hard driven but possessed a great amount of patience. He took us Snow Sking in Colorado 4 times when I was growing up. Sitting up or curled up in the fetal position in the backseat of the car riding across the high plains was memorable in itself. My mothers AbbA 8 track periodically playing through the speakers filled my head with them. That's how that got started. Music affects me deeply. In the ski rental shop, I heard Billy Joel's song You May Be Right playing for the first time on our 1980 trip. Our first ski trip out west was when I was in second grade. From then on, Colorado represented heaven for me. Kinda still does,,,,

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

If nothing else, this a Journal of  personal Integration.

It IS tricky concerning what to write. I don't want to betray others close to me concerning their privacy. I also dont want to share a variety of personal issues which could be used against me by others who are under a spell of some kind and I don't want to be more cringeworthy than I already am.

I try to share personal things which are relevant in some way and I'm also willing to tell the world. Character traits and behaviors that unflattering as well as those that go on the plus side. There is a definite danger here in a sense. I've dealt with this in former online 4th way atmospheres. One can get a severe ego backlash from sharing something's that might have been better kept quiet. It could be for a variety of reasons. But it all comes out of inner considering as the Fourth Way refers to it and takes off from there. So sometimes my gauge in what to post is measured by how much inner considering I think it would cause me. We multifaceted beings though.

Also sharing about feelings can sometimes change the whole style of communication. That's ok. If you're ok with it. I find myself relating in wide variety of ways and I'm more ok with it than in the past. It definitely feels like Integration. 

My typing is getting worse because I need new glasses.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot
Stressed that we're multifaceted beings.

[tsuki]

@Zigzag Idiot This is a very powerful confession.
Do you welcome comments on it? I struggle with this myself a lot.

[Zigzag Idiot]

3 hours ago, tsuki said:

@Zigzag Idiot This is a very powerful confession.
Do you welcome comments on it? I struggle with this myself a lot.

Yes, Comments are welcome and appreciated.

[tsuki]

5 hours ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

If nothing else, this a Journal of  personal Integration.

It IS tricky concerning what to write. I don't want to betray others close to me concerning their privacy. I also dont want to share a variety of personal issues which could be used against me by others who are under a spell of some kind and I don't want to be more cringeworthy than I already am.

I try to share personal things which are relevant in some way and I'm also willing to tell the world. Character traits and behaviors that unflattering as well as those that go on the plus side. There is a definite danger here in a sense. I've dealt with this in former online 4th way atmospheres. One can get a severe ego backlash from sharing something's that might have been better kept quiet. It could be for a variety of reasons. But it all comes out of inner considering as the Fourth Way refers to it and takes off from there. So sometimes my gauge in what to post is measured by how much inner considering I think it would cause me. We multifaceted beings though.

Also sharing about feelings can sometimes change the whole style of communication. That's ok. If you're ok with it. I find myself relating in wide variety of ways and I'm more ok with it than in the past. It definitely feels like Integration. 

My typing is getting worse because I need new glasses.

You are not cringeworthy at all. I find that you are one of the most genuine people in here and I enjoy your company tremendously.
In fact, I kind of look up to you and this is why I wanted to comment. The parts that I underscored sound like you are reacting to your past that you could work through. Like you are protecting something.

This is not the place from your past. Nobody can hurt you if you integrate what you now consider flaws.