An alarming dating trend?

[billiesimon]

In the latest RSD video 

 Tyler talks about how the dating trend is becoming more and more alarming (he actually said alarming/terrifying).

He explains how, especially in north america, women are becoming more and more superficial and addicted to status, cheap fun and attention from celebrites. In a nutshell: disfunctional stage orange. 

In the past I would have been only interested in finding a way to get the attention necessary to find a girlfriend, but nowadays, as I'm moving into stage green, I feel a lot of disgust and fear towards this terrifying shift that society is making. Male celebrites are using their status to reach girls and date them in packs, while the women themselves are discarding all normal guys to chase only the celebrities and the rich.

What the fuck is happening? How can we (both men and women) find meaning and connection with a partner if society is becoming like this? 

I've never felt scared by watching a dating video. But this is so damn wrong. Is human romantic connection dying? Are women really being so deeply corrupted by stage orange?

Edited December 12, 2018 by billiesimon

[Space]

@billiesimon Not every girl falls into the dysfunctional stage orange category. Don't make the mistake of generalising large portions of society just from what Tyler says on an RSD video. The amount of girls he comes into contact with is minuscule in reality. And of course, if you hang out in the social circles that Tyler is in you'll probably find a lot more dysfunctional orange rather than green or yellow. So his perspective is heavily biased. Even from a wider perspective what you're saying isn't true. There are many many functional orange and green girls. Just don't expect to find them in a nightclub in LA. And of course human romantic connection isn't dying lol. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Space

[Emerald]

I agree with what Space said. 

As a famous RSD guy, he's mostly going to get with easy hook-up women who are looking for status through being picked up by him for who he is. 

But the vast majority of Orange women aren't like that. 

Orange generally, is all about meritocracy based upon relatively arbitrarily chosen standards. So, when I was in Orange, my meritocracy wasn't based upon money or status. I didn't think those were very important at all, and I considered those things as indicators of being a boring person who had everything handed to them. So, these were signifiers of weakness and boringness relative to my Orange hierarchy.

My Orange values were based upon intelligence, being interesting, being kind, having good taste in art and moves, worldliness, struggle, etc. So, these were my hierarchies of the time and how I determined who was valuable and who wasn't.

So, even though it's shallow in terms of always thinking of things in terms of value and hierarchy, not every woman's hierarchy will be the same.

But the women who are most available to a famous RSD guy, are going to be women who are Orange whose hierarchy is all about money, status, looks, etc. So, to him, that's his conception of what a woman is. All other women are irrelevant to him as they aren't in his dating pool.

So, it has a lot to do with like attracting like. Since the RSD guys are all about looks, status climbing, and the mainstream conception of social currency, they're going to attract the women that mirror these values. 

[universe]

Marketing 101. Create a problem -> solve it.

 

 

Ask yourself: What is Tyler selling you here? Is it deep inner work that will get you real growth or is it a "quick help pill" that will do all the work for you? The real deal or a mask to hide your problems. High consciousness or low consciousness.

 

[billiesimon]

14 hours ago, Emerald said:

I agree with what Space said. 

As a famous RSD guy, he's mostly going to get with easy hook-up women who are looking for status through being picked up by him for who he is. 

But the vast majority of Orange women aren't like that. 

Orange generally, is all about meritocracy based upon relatively arbitrarily chosen standards. So, when I was in Orange, my meritocracy wasn't based upon money or status. I didn't think those were very important at all, and I considered those things as indicators of being a boring person who had everything handed to them. So, these were signifiers of weakness and boringness relative to my Orange hierarchy.

My Orange values were based upon intelligence, being interesting, being kind, having good taste in art and moves, worldliness, struggle, etc. So, these were my hierarchies of the time and how I determined who was valuable and who wasn't.

So, even though it's shallow in terms of always thinking of things in terms of value and hierarchy, not every woman's hierarchy will be the same.

But the women who are most available to a famous RSD guy, are going to be women who are Orange whose hierarchy is all about money, status, looks, etc. So, to him, that's his conception of what a woman is. All other women are irrelevant to him as they aren't in his dating pool.

So, it has a lot to do with like attracting like. Since the RSD guys are all about looks, status climbing, and the mainstream conception of social currency, they're going to attract the women that mirror these values. 

Thanks for the insightful response!

Well, to be honest RSD never talks about looks, but they definitely focus a lot on status, social proof, and flashy/edgy attitude. 

The problem with Tyler and his crew is that they both have great life coaching advice (reading eckhart tolle, accepting your flaws, not judging female sexuality etc), at the same time they indulge in very superficial social circles, in the most superficial city of the world: Los Angeles.

He definitely is between stage orange and green, but his lines of development are separate, as his dating life is very orange, and his friendship/private life is very green. He's famous for being a very compassionate man in the dating community.

The problem with engaging with such a massive audience and wanting to reach everyone is that you have to dumb down your comminication to: "get the hottest and dumbest girls to date you". This is something I don't like about RSD, while at the same time I like a lot of their life coaching advices, and their advices on learning how to understand a woman's need and female communication.

Apart from this, I'm glad that this is only a problem related to some social circles and not all.

[Matt8800]

17 hours ago, billiesimon said:

In the latest RSD video 

 Tyler talks about how the dating trend is becoming more and more alarming (he actually said alarming/terrifying).

He explains how, especially in north america, women are becoming more and more superficial and addicted to status, cheap fun and attention from celebrites. In a nutshell: disfunctional stage orange. 

In the past I would have been only interested in finding a way to get the attention necessary to find a girlfriend, but nowadays, as I'm moving into stage green, I feel a lot of disgust and fear towards this terrifying shift that society is making. Male celebrites are using their status to reach girls and date them in packs, while the women themselves are discarding all normal guys to chase only the celebrities and the rich.

What the fuck is happening? How can we (both men and women) find meaning and connection with a partner if society is becoming like this? 

I've never felt scared by watching a dating video. But this is so damn wrong. Is human romantic connection dying? Are women really being so deeply corrupted by stage orange?

Green women tend to have not want to date orange. This is like saying since many people are addicted to opioids, everybody is.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, billiesimon said:

Thanks for the insightful response!

Well, to be honest RSD never talks about looks, but they definitely focus a lot on status, social proof, and flashy/edgy attitude. 

The problem with Tyler and his crew is that they both have great life coaching advice (reading eckhart tolle, accepting your flaws, not judging female sexuality etc), at the same time they indulge in very superficial social circles, in the most superficial city of the world: Los Angeles.

He definitely is between stage orange and green, but his lines of development are separate, as his dating life is very orange, and his friendship/private life is very green. He's famous for being a very compassionate man in the dating community.

The problem with engaging with such a massive audience and wanting to reach everyone is that you have to dumb down your comminication to: "get the hottest and dumbest girls to date you". This is something I don't like about RSD, while at the same time I like a lot of their life coaching advices, and their advices on learning how to understand a woman's need and female communication.

Apart from this, I'm glad that this is only a problem related to some social circles and not all.

With the looks thing, I was more-so talking about what they value in women. And this whole, become a high status man to get a hot woman.

So, looks are not a huge part of the RSD community's thing relative, because that would make them less effective and less successful in their business. They are sought out by men who are seeking to be more attractive to women. So, many of the guys who are interested in their services will be guys who maybe feel negatively about their looks. So, the RSD guys will be like, "Looks don't matter." since looks are something men don't have very much control over. And instead they'll focus toward technique and status, which is something that men do have control over.

But yes. It's a lot about who he's marketing to, and how they read value in a woman. So, they are going to value the woman's looks most of all, because they understand that attention from attractive women as being the thing that brings them value. And most guys who get involved in pick up in general tend to come from a place of lack and scarcity and negative self esteem relative to their self-worth. 

So, it's definitely a very specific kind of social circle and aegis about dating that makes a lot of RSD/PUA guys a match to women who value themselves in the same way that the men value them... which mostly on looks without regard to much else. So, you end up with a lot of otherwise underdeveloped hot women, hooking up with guys who are employing techniques specifically designed to hook up with otherwise underdeveloped hot women.

And it creates an empty and lackluster transaction in the sex because they are only engaging in it for the man to mirror the desirability of the woman back to her and the woman to mirror the status of the man back to him. So, that way they both get to feel worthwhile.

[billiesimon]

48 minutes ago, Emerald said:

With the looks thing, I was more-so talking about what they value in women. And this whole, become a high status man to get a hot woman.

So, looks are not a huge part of the RSD community's thing relative, because that would make them less effective and less successful in their business. They are sought out by men who are seeking to be more attractive to women. So, many of the guys who are interested in their services will be guys who maybe feel negatively about their looks. So, the RSD guys will be like, "Looks don't matter." since looks are something men don't have very much control over. And instead they'll focus toward technique and status, which is something that men do have control over.

But yes. It's a lot about who he's marketing to, and how they read value in a woman. So, they are going to value the woman's looks most of all, because they understand that attention from attractive women as being the thing that brings them value. And most guys who get involved in pick up in general tend to come from a place of lack and scarcity and negative self esteem relative to their self-worth. 

So, it's definitely a very specific kind of social circle and aegis about dating that makes a lot of RSD/PUA guys a match to women who value themselves in the same way that the men value them... which mostly on looks without regard to much else. So, you end up with a lot of otherwise underdeveloped hot women, hooking up with guys who are employing techniques specifically designed to hook up with otherwise underdeveloped hot women.

And it creates an empty and lackluster transaction in the sex because they are only engaging in it for the man to mirror the desirability of the woman back to her and the woman to mirror the status of the man back to him. So, that way they both get to feel worthwhile.

Definitely the marketing target is the classic nerdy guy, who feels lonely. I've been like that and I know it works.

Also nerdy guys don't have a clue about how to get intimacy, so they cling to their intelligence to find a "system" and find affection from women.

As I have shifted from the dense orange phase of the recent years I've seen that getting attention from women is a double edged sword, because if you attract them with a shiny behaviour (status, social proof, edginess, social power) you will attract a superficial woman who CANNOT connect with you. I believe that a lot of these guys in reality just want to connect and not to get a shiny gf, but they are somehow forced to do it when they learn "shiny" tecniques from the PUA industry. It's a vicious cycle.

Now, I don't want to piss on the dating/PUA values, because there are a lot of healthy orange values in them: having courage, being social, being empathetic, taking your social life in your hands, stop complaining, stop being a victim, stop judging sex etc....

But there are some shadow aspects of pickup that are toxic and need to be erased from this discipline. One above all is the focus on women's looks and women's "sexual marketplace value". And the obsession with male status of course. I still believe in dating and in "pickup", but only as a form of honest and proactive, positive social interaction, to build a better life.

 

And I agree with all of your message of course.

The only question I still have, now that I'm starting to see the problem of stage orange is....

Are post-orange women still after "value" in a man? 

With value I mean what a man brings of value in her life. Not necessarily status and money, but simply "value", as a sense of "he's a special man".

Is value still the core of attraction for you and for women in your development phase?

[aurum]

@billiesimon

I wanted to wait until I watched the video to response to this. So here's my take.

There's nothing to be afraid of. Not because the trends he is pointing out aren't accurate (they mostly are), but because you can easily just follow the steps outlined in the video and you'll be fine. They're not fear mongering. They're telling you the solution right then and there.

Follow me on IG at @akourakin and check out my highlights. I've been doing this stuff for over a year, it's simple and really works.

[billiesimon]

4 minutes ago, aurum said:

@billiesimon

I wanted to wait until I watched the video to response to this. So here's my take.

There's nothing to be afraid of. Not because the trends he is pointing out aren't accurate (they mostly are), but because you can easily just follow the steps outlined in the video and you'll be fine. They're not fear mongering. They're telling you the solution right then and there.

Follow me on IG at @akourakin and check out my highlights. I've been doing this stuff for over a year, it's simple and really works.

I get it that the steps he explains about social media are accurate. 

But what I was asking in the thread was: is the dating life becoming shallow and dehumanized like he is explaining at the beginning of the video?
Or is "old fashioned" connection with a girl still possible?

[aurum]

22 minutes ago, billiesimon said:

I get it that the steps he explains about social media are accurate. 

But what I was asking in the thread was: is the dating life becoming shallow and dehumanized like he is explaining at the beginning of the video?
Or is "old fashioned" connection with a girl still possible?

Stop idolizing the past dude. It's gone. So much of what you're probably calling a "connection" was just people fitting into societal norms and various forms of unconscious attachment.

Yes, you can still get a girlfriend. But I would highly, highly recommend you also do the stuff they talk about and I'm doing if that's your end goal. Otherwise the likelihood that she is going to give a shit about your "connection" is about zero.

[billiesimon]

33 minutes ago, aurum said:

Stop idolizing the past dude. It's gone. So much of what you're probably calling a "connection" was just people fitting into societal norms and various forms of unconscious attachment.

Yes, you can still get a girlfriend. But I would highly, highly recommend you also do the stuff they talk about and I'm doing if that's your end goal. Otherwise the likelihood that she is going to give a shit about your "connection" is about zero.

My end goal is to meet people, to find better friends and better girls, and also to find a compatible girl for a meaninful relationship.

Is this still possible in 2019? Because judjing by the latest video you can't even do that anymore... just game ADHD girls with zero personality and almost zero IQ. 

I don't mind using instagram to message or to send funny videos to girls, it's fun and just another way of socializing. 

The problem is: do meaningful relationship still exist? Or do I have to become a fucking clown, whoring my whole integrity on social media to get attention from girls?

And to be honest I've done some game from time to time, and my last gf didn't need all this BS of whoring myself on social media. It happened last year and I just exchanged number at a bar, while having fun and socializing with her friends. 
No games, no tricks.

[billiesimon]

By the way, this topic is creating so much confusion in my head...

Leo says that we have to be authentic and just go out to socialize without stupid games.
Julien from RSD actually says the same as Leo.

Tyler and Luke and @aurum say that you have to play games to trick the girls (I know you didn't say that , but if you watch the video they say that you have to be smarter to play it smooth etc).

My personal experience and the experience of some of my friends is very similar to what Leo and Julien say. Which is by the way what @Emerald is saying, just in a different wording.

I don't know what to think, but I guess I'll continue practicing authenticity.

[aurum]

@billiesimon

You can judge the process all you want, calling it shallow, inauthentic, superficial, whoring, whatever. It's not going to stop people from doing what they're doing. We'll see where your dating life is in three years.

[Spiral]

I suppose this could be useful but Scandinavia is super green and people here generally look down on people who are very active on social media.  So this advice kinda feels outdated and this whole thing was cool 5 years ago.

I suppose it depends on where you live.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Spiral

[mikeyy]

How do you start building an Instagram from scratch. I have no friends so ive been doing cold approach to try to meet people. In highschool i had alot of friends but never wanted social media i regret that now. Couple years have gone by and im a lone trying to dig myself out of a hole. @aurum

[aurum]

8 hours ago, mikeyy said:

How do you start building an Instagram from scratch. I have no friends so ive been doing cold approach to try to meet people. In highschool i had alot of friends but never wanted social media i regret that now. Couple years have gone by and im a lone trying to dig myself out of a hole. @aurum

I hear you man, I should have been on it way earlier myself but I let fear temporarily win that one.

Start off by following people who have the life you want. That could be me (@akourakin), the RSD crew, whoever. Study what these people are posting on their Instagram like you'd study a subject in school.

What are they posting? How often? With who? What are they saying? What are they not saying?

A few common themes you'll see:

1) 60 second video montage of events this person was attending or hosted

2) IG stories partying with girls

3) Travel

4) Luxury homes / cars

5) Photos / videos of their work

6) Memes / quotes

7) Hanging with friends / significant other

So these are just examples of some of the things you'll see.

Since you're starting from scratch, some of this you won't be able to do. That's fine.

Recognize the gap between you and these people, but don't get discouraged and fall into self-doubt. Use it instead as inspiration for what you're shooting for and accept where you're at.

For instance, maybe you just start out cold approaching girls and putting the ones that go well in your iG stories. That alone will help you out.

Basically, just start posting everything that highlights your life in a positive way. But also don't be afraid to open up and share some vulnerabilities when appropriate. 

[Lynnel]

@aurum

How then do you become NOT mysogynistic is women are simply attracted to numbers on instagram ? Give any douche 50k in following and he's attractive ? Are you even human at this point if the girl is attracted to a random abstract thingy and not you ?

Honestly I've been thinking that value is what gives rises to connection but then said connection is always stricto sensu fake and is bullshit - as Leo said everything is bullshit - I know "get better not bitter" but fuck me I'm gonna go meditate in a cave at this point.

@Emerald  Please tell me it's just a orange type thing and we're gonna get trough this as a humanity.

 

[aurum]

3 hours ago, Lynnel said:

How then do you become NOT mysogynistic is women are simply attracted to numbers on instagram ?

Did even you watch the video? They've specifically said follower count is not the most important thing.

Misogyny is the consolation prize for losers. Girls don't want to fuck you, so at least you get to feel better by hating them.

When I read stuff like this it honestly looks pathetic. While you're spending your precious time crying about how girls shouldn't behave this way and how you don't like society, I just accept everything, follow the flow and keep taking action.

That's why I'll keep winning.

[Toby]

On 12.12.2018 at 11:04 PM, billiesimon said:

How can we (both men and women) find meaning and connection with a partner

If that is your interest then RSD is not really the advise you should be watching. They are not talking about long term relationships afaik.