Artificial Intelligence & Society

[purerogue]

4 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

Describe why 1 + 1 = 2?

He will describe, but he will not understand why you asked this question anyway!  

Edited December 13, 2018 by purerogue

[non_nothing]

1 hour ago, luckieluuke said:

 

 

I am amazed how people can say that "computers" will never have consciousness. Do you really 100% know everything what reality is and how it works? Sure you might have an opinion but you say you know for sure?! Either you are buddhas or have the biggest egos in the world.

Me personally I don´t know. It would surprise me but then again I can see how everything is consciousness. A rock is conscious, it makes a sound when I hit it. We humans are equally conscious but just a lot more complex, or in another say.
Computers are conscious today but very primitive but I don´t see how in the future when a machine is equally complex as a human should be much different.
What´s interesting with humans is that we are aware of our consciousness which creates a loop of being aware of being aware which have some pretty amazing results.
I don´t see any reason why a machine couldn´t become aware of being aware.

You don't know what you are talking about? I started my post with claiming that I'm musician and computer scientist. I wrote my own OS. I built my own CPU with breadboards. I built my own analog computer. I built my own mechanical all purpose tureng machine with cogs. That's where i talk from. Now you? What are you? Tell me then I'll take you serious.

[non_nothing]

2 minutes ago, purerogue said:

He will describe, but he will not understand what you asked this question anyway!  

Yes with a few sentences probably. As you stated, he won't get it. The essense of the question requires at least a month of contemplation. It took me having ended up filling 3 notebooks of A4 (more than 200 pages) to reach a point to describe why it is so.

[luckieluuke]

@non_nothing  Im a human being. The question if a machine can have consciousness demands that we know what a machine is and what consciousness is.
You might know what a machine is but do you know what consciousness is? what reality is? cause if you don´t you cant know the answer
....that´s my opinion, and it triggers me a bit when people say they know everything and proclaim what is possible and what is not without doubt. When we are asking question most people doubt about and are exploring.
 

[purerogue]

3 minutes ago, luckieluuke said:

@non_nothing  Im a human being. The question if a machine can have consciousness demands that we know what a machine is and what consciousness is.
You might know what a machine is but do you know what consciousness is? what reality is? cause if you don´t you cant know the answer
....that´s my opinion, and it triggers me a bit when people say they know everything and proclaim what is possible and what is not without doubt. When we are asking question most people doubt about and are exploring.
 

It is not question about what is consciousness, but what can be conscious. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by purerogue

[luckieluuke]

@purerogue So you don´t need to know what consciousness is in order to determine what can become conscious?
That sounds crazy to me. I´d say its obvious you need to know what it is before determine if something can be it.

Edited December 13, 2018 by luckieluuke

[purerogue]

Just now, luckieluuke said:

@purerogue So you don´t need to know what consciousness is in order to determine what can become concussions?
That sounds crazy to me.

Consciousness is everything, but everything can't be conscious. 

[non_nothing]

1 minute ago, luckieluuke said:

@non_nothing  Im a human being. The question if a machine can have consciousness demands that we know what a machine is and what consciousness is.
You might know what a machine is but do you know what consciousness is? what reality is? cause if you don´t you cant know the answer
....that´s my opinion, and it triggers me a bit when people say they know everything and proclaim what is possible and what is not without doubt. When we are asking question most people doubt about and are exploring.
 

In fact person never said it knows everything,

further, no knowledge, no person, no claim, no reality, no you, no doubt, no-thing to discover, it is.

when "you", in "your" perspective, person claimed that he knew everything and defended something against your thoughts.

 

IMHO, this is yet just another thread of Elon's minion. You all have been deluded by him and got in an illusory excitement.

 

I will just say this once and for last

"AI" == "optimized" "mathematical solution" for "a particular problem"

each is a study field of its own.

don't create more fantasy around this. sex robot? come on... you're just a pawn on the game of advertisement going on around the world. that's all going on here.

[luckieluuke]

16 hours ago, non_nothing said:

AI will never, achieve a mind and consciousness. This is yet another fairytale. Wrong on so many levels. So maaaaaany levels.

You said you know that AI will never achieve a mind and consciousness. Hence you must know what mind and consciousness is in order to know such things as truth.

 

4 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

In fact person never said it knows everything

What do you mean by this statement? what person?

 

7 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

....doubt, no-thing to discover, it is.

What is this? what it is machine is not???

 

8 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

when "you", in "your" perspective, person claimed that he knew everything and defended something against your thoughts.

Yes I defent my thought "i don´t know but want to find out" from your thought "I know" since it doesn´t convince me.

[non_nothing]

4 minutes ago, luckieluuke said:

What do you mean by this statement? what person?

Me as person

4 minutes ago, luckieluuke said:

"i don´t know but want to find out"

Your attitude has changed now. If you want to find out, try to get a "no-self" experience and It'll all make sense. Further having personal interest on mathematics will help rather than to have an interest to talk about in a magazine fashion as OP did.

[luckieluuke]

@non_nothing I have not changed my attitude at all. Please read my first post and tell me how you know that I am wrong.
To recap:
Everything is consciousness so a machine could achieve a mind and consciousness.
I´m not saying that I am right. But you believe you are without a doubt right so prove that my idea is wrong.

[luckieluuke]

@non_nothing telling me to try get an experience of no self when I say my experience is that myself is all that is and is consciousness doesnt make sense since it should be obvious that I have had such experiences. It´s a very demeaning comment coming from an ego wanting to one up another ego as I see. Just pointing that out about your attitude for yourself.

[luckieluuke]

@purerogue And why can´t everything be conscious? My experience is that everything might be conscious....I just happen to be a rather complex system and variation of conscious.

[AceTrainerGreen]

2 hours ago, Hellspeed said:

@AceTrainerGreen You speak about society in general. I speak from an expertise perspective experience of Buddhahood, Awakening, etc. 

 

Show me an AI that can heal another human being from any disease possible. Auch!

At the end of the day, the natural forms and biological are infinite decimals superior. 

Awake, you will encounter that you will not need to read anymore per example, all the knowledges comes to one with the projection in an awake state. 

1

This individual survived stage four cancer due to genomic sequencing. If it was not for the help of AI, he would be dead. Sequencing the human genome took a decade and billions of dollars whereas you can now do that in two days for a thousand dollars or less.

This is from the official prime minister of Japan's YouTube channel.

This AI is capable of predicting respiratory failure.

54 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

Describe why 1 + 1 = 2?

49 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

Yes with a few sentences probably. As you stated, he won't get it. The essense of the question requires at least a month of contemplation. It took me having ended up filling 3 notebooks of A4 (more than 200 pages) to reach a point to describe why it is so.

This is sounding very /r/iamverysmart. It's a good thing you've interacted with me. I tend to go extraordinarily very deep on topics. I too have an online journal where it has more than 1,000 documents of research. I'm a nerd as well. We can play.

I'm already sure you're familiar with Principia Mathematica written by Alfred North Whitehead and Bertrand Russel which gives the proof of the question; however, you're asking "Why?"

The philosophy of mathematics is interesting.

What is the question behind your question?

35 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

In fact person never said it knows everything,

further, no knowledge, no person, no claim, no reality, no you, no doubt, no-thing to discover, it is.

when "you", in "your" perspective, person claimed that he knew everything and defended something against your thoughts.

 

IMHO, this is yet just another thread of Elon's minion. You all have been deluded by him and got in an illusory excitement.

 

I will just say this once and for last

"AI" == "optimized" "mathematical solution" for "a particular problem"

each is a study field of its own.

don't create more fantasy around this. sex robot? come on... you're just a pawn on the game of advertisement going on around the world. that's all going on here.

This is becoming out-of-hand. I am not a "minion" of Elon. You are making accusations. I am a person seeking for truth. Don't put words into my mouth. Additionally, your diplomatic skills need to be fine-tuned. I believe you won't persuade anyone via insulting.

It seems this thread has gone in the wrong direction. Again, I repeat, I'm not particularly concerned with the consciousness of artificial intelligence, albeit I'm glad to discuss it; however, I created this thread because I wanted to know how artificial intelligence is going to impact our lives. Perhaps, I should retitle this thread and just call it 'Artificial Intelligence and Society'.

[luckieluuke]

@AceTrainerGreen Since you posted this in the "Meditation, Consciousness, Enlightenment, Spirituality" section this will most likely be the context were are discussing it. But in that case I´ll leave and let you discuss that perspective

Also non_nothing might have been replying to me...

[AceTrainerGreen]

41 minutes ago, luckieluuke said:

@AceTrainerGreen Since you posted this in the "Meditation, Consciousness, Enlightenment, Spirituality" section this will most likely be the context were are discussing it. But in that case I´ll leave and let you discuss that perspective

Also non_nothing might have been replying to me...

It's difficult to choose. Perhaps, I have created this thread on the wrong forum entirely. haha

When I think about it further, the world of machines is probably the opposite of spirituality.

[non_nothing]

On 13/12/2018 at 7:44 AM, AceTrainerGreen said:

Again, I repeat, I'm not particularly concerned with the consciousness of artificial intelligence, albeit I'm glad to discuss it; however, I created this thread because I wanted to know how artificial intelligence is going to impact our lives.

You've made edits in the first post, It was all about asking consciousness of AI. Now you're forfeiting with a trick leaving behind. This sub-forum is all about spirituality, and you hadn't know what "consciousness" was when you were asked at first. It was unplanned, yet this is enough to prove you had some plans in your mind, to advertise some idea, but the plans haven't gone well, "what would worst happen if I just throw up bunch of keywords from this community?" yeah unnoticed, "what afterall is consciousness? It's just yet another stupid acronym for human mind." You'd say. Even the worst if you haven't have plans in mind, You are just yet another unaware minion.

[luckieluuke]

@AceTrainerGreen

Maybe under "Life Purpose, Career, Entrepreneurship"?
Yea it´s a tricky one!
I think AI and spirituality has some very big intersections.

But from that point of view I´m not so worried that machines will take all our work  from us.
Similar to way back in middle ages when say 95% of humans were farmers we are now only a few % farmers. But the 95+% found other stuff to do. It´s all part of our development. Maybe we will finally have more time for family and spirituality!? Or we will just hang around fucking and eating....but I don´t think so. Humans have a way to strive forward and create stuff.

Edited December 13, 2018 by luckieluuke

[non_nothing]

2 hours ago, luckieluuke said:

@non_nothing I have not changed my attitude at all. Please read my first post and tell me how you know that I am wrong.
To recap:
Everything is consciousness so a machine could achieve a mind and consciousness.
I´m not saying that I am right. But you believe you are without a doubt right so prove that my idea is wrong.

Yes a machine can achieve a mind and consciousness. Machines are not AI. Use your words with caution.

[ajasatya]

4 hours ago, luckieluuke said:

I don´t see any reason why a machine couldn´t become aware of being aware.

print('I am aware that I am aware.')

you just lack fundamental knowledge about how computers work. computers are extensions of the turing machine, which is a rudimentary programmable calculator. everything a computer does has to obey a certain set of strict and inflexible rules.

programming an AI system is a funny thing because we try to teach an inflexible machine to be flexible. even the most flexible abstractions of rule sets have to go through a training phase to mimic a certain behavior.