Heart chakra

[peanutspathtotruth]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

@peanutspathtotruth @Aimblack

 

The problem is you have a poor self-image and you're suffering because of it and you start self-destructive process. So you think okey I will create a possitive self-image with self-love.

Possitive self-image will definitely stop the guilt and self-destructive thoughts. Plus it gives you confidence and self esteem so what's the problem? Well here's a problem. It will lead to arrogance, to self-obsession, narcissism.

Well, I have the feeling you are not really reading what is being said here and projecting your own views and problems onto my situation. That's totally okay but this way there is no discussion possible. Actually READ what I wrote and see how your response doesn't really fit.
 

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

It definitely doesn't lead to love for others that's for sure. Self-obssesed people can't think of anything else then themselfs

Strangely enough though, in my process it DOES lead to loving others, more than ever before. Could it be that you just misinterpret something here or that you're trying to prove a point you strongly hold?

Again, this has nothing to do with feeling better and making the guilt go away. I've been very clear with that. I still thank you for your time and thoughts and I will think about it. 

Have a beautiful day  

[Salvijus]

3 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

Well, I have the feeling you are not really reading what is being said here 

 

Sorry. I saw different points were made but for sake of simplicity I focused only on one point about poor self-image and how self-love is improving self-image and gives you some sense of confidence.

But it's not a good solution because this will create arrogance. And there will be constant anxiety about not to look foolish again. Because that would mean negative self-image again. And you don't like that.

What true solution is. Forgeting yourself. In such a state, even if you do something stupid and everybody calls you an idiot you are still okey. Not because you love yourself but because you don't care about yourself. You don't care about self-image and how you look and what people think of you.

Self-love is only making poor self-image into good self-image to stop self-destructive thoughts. But the real problem is not solved. With self-love the problem gets even stronger.

13 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

Strangely enough though, in my process it DOES lead to loving others, more than ever before. 

 

You did mention that you do self-love for the true self and for the body.

How loving your true self is even possible? You have to create 2people inside of you. Your true self and your false self. And then this false self is loving his true self and that results in more love for others? Makes no sense to me at all.

And if there're two people inside of you, we call this schizophrenia

You love others that's okey. But you love yourself that means there's you and there's another you who you love

No, no, no....

There's only one you. You can be radiating with love. But you radiate love towards yourself then it's just narcissism. And in no way will this increase your love for others.

[d0ornokey]

7 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Prove me wrong and give me one example of self-love which is not narcissistic.

 

Okay, I'll do my best and try to give my current understanding. This is something that I've been contemplating recently. I'm not actually trying to prove you wrong as I don't think you'll bother to question your perspective, I'm doing this purely as a contemplation exercise and the best way to learn is to teach.

My claim: A narcissist that loves himself, wouldn't be a narcissist. Your position is someone that loves themselves is a narcissist. You are confusing a narcissist with somebody who loves themselves, but narcissist's form of self-love is a denial of the self, and only identifying with parts of him that he deems as worthy. Narcissists create a false self-image of themselves. 

Narcissism is born when the individual denies aspects of him, and identifies only with what he deems as worthy. He is not doing this out of self-love or self-acceptance, just the opposite. He's deluded himself to fit into an ideal that he sees as perfect and worthy BECAUSE he says certain ideals are NOT worthy. So, he disowns the parts of him that he sees as negative and only identifies with the parts of him that he sees as worthy. Whatever is outside of that image, is not worthy and "not him". 

Narcissists say: I am the best. I am perfect. I am God. 

Self-love: Whatever I am, as imperfect as I am, I accept who I am and love myself

 

A narcissist would say about their body: "*(deep down I hate my body)* I have the BEST body and everyone else's body is SHIT" 

A self-loving person would say about their body: "I see that my body is imperfect... I am okay with that. I love and accept myself for who I am"

 

A narcissist would say: "I don't make mistakes. I'm perfect" 

A self-loving person would say: "I make mistakes. I'm imperfect, but I still love myself" 

 

 

[peanutspathtotruth]

On 11.12.2018 at 6:49 PM, peanutspathtotruth said:

it is loving yourself when you see who/what "you" really are. It is being the love that IS everything which you are.

@Salvijus So much about reading what was said.

I don't really want to continue this. You seem to just wanting to be right. Congratulations, you are right and I seem to be schizophrenic.

<3 

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Aimblack said:

@Salvijus You are mixing up what you think I am saying with what I'm actually saying. Self love doesn't necessarily mean improving your self image. It means understanding that you are worthy of love despite all your failings. Loving yourself doesn't have to be egoistical. It's simply the realization that everybody is deserving of your love including yourself.

So you basicly feel bad about failing at something so you think self-acceptence is the solution. 

But why do feel bad when you fail in the first place? Because if you fail your self-image is bad and then you feel bad, that's why. And when you accept yourself or you love yourself, now your self-image became tolerable, normal, acceptable. Now you say to yourself "I'm not a loser, being bad at basketball is normal" you feel great. 

But the real solution is having no attachment to your self-image. Even if fail a 1000times and people tell you you're a total loser..you're still okey. Not because you've accepted yourself but because you don't care at all how you look, what people think about you. You could be shitfaced and still be perfectly okey. Because you forgot yourself. You don't think about yourself at all. 

Self love will make your obssesion with self-image even stronger. It will only make things worse.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Salvijus

[karkaore]

@Salvijus describe your concept of love please

[Aimblack]

@Salvijus Every objection you made has been directly answered in here in detail by many other people so I think I'll join the others and leave it at that. Whatever final conclusion you reach I hope you get to happy, have a nice day

[Salvijus]

10 hours ago, karkaore said:

@Salvijus describe your concept of love please

Love is just a sweetness of emotion.

But what we're talking about in here is not love. It's self-acceptence for those people who have low self-esteem. Who beat themselfs everytime they fail. Who think self-destructive thoughts.

people like that think solution is self-acceptence, aka self-love. Accepting their failures, accepting that they are different, accepting their birth defects,  accepting the each of us are differently capable,, acceptings that it's okey to lose and etc...

I say solution is dropping the need to be accepted, dropping the need to to be successfull. Not to care if you lose or win. Not to care if you fail a1000times. Dropping and forgeting yourself totally.

That's the only solution to be untouched by any number of failure. The only way you can totally be okey the way you are, with all your disabilities. Even if you're shitfaced the only way to be okey with that is not self-love but self-abandonment

 

[d0ornokey]

@Salvijus

you're confusing narcissistic ego boosting with green self-love. they're completely opposite things

one is gentle and kind and the other is stiff and hurt

Edited December 13, 2018 by d0ornokey

[Salvijus]

22 hours ago, d0ornokey said:

 

Narcissists say: I am the best. I am perfect. I am God. 

Self-love: Whatever I am, as imperfect as I am, I accept who I am and love myself

 

A narcissist would say about their body: "*(deep down I hate my body)* I have the BEST body and everyone else's body is SHIT" 

A self-loving person would say about their body: "I see that my body is imperfect... I am okay with that. I love and accept myself for who I am"

 

A narcissist would say: "I don't make mistakes. I'm perfect" 

A self-loving person would say: "I make mistakes. I'm imperfect, but I still love myself" 

 

 

Self-loving man will say: i don't like my body but I accepted it. Or maybe even managed to love his body.

An intelligent man will say: i don't give a shit about my looks.

Self-loving man will be obssesed about his looks. All the time trying to love and accept himself 

An intelligent man who doesn't care is free from such concerns. Nobody can make him feel bad about his looks. And self-destructive thoughts never happens to him. And he couldn't care less if he loves himself or not. He doesn't think about himself. He doesn't care about his self-image. 

This sounds like a sage quality to me. 

Self-love sounds like an attempt to feel better about yourself. Because you're too attachment to opinions and ideas about yourself.

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Salvijus

[d0ornokey]

@Salvijus

cool agree to disagree

Edited December 13, 2018 by d0ornokey

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, d0ornokey said:

@Salvijus

cool agree to disagree

You're not going to go far with this attitude.

Either you expose me of being false, or you admit that people on self-love still have concerns and anxiety about their self-image.