Thoughts Loops on LSD = Ego Death?

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

I'll take my guitar with me then

 

The guitar may start playing itself. . .?

6 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

Couldn't contemplating my own death potentially turn it into a bad trip? 

Contemplate your nature before you were born. Before you were exposed to language, self concepts, images, rules etc. A smoother ride than the death contemplation. ? 

[Wisebaxter]

@molosku

8 hours ago, molosku said:

Technique suggestion: stare at the closed-eye visuals and self-inquire about them and their meaning to the one that is perceiving. What you are looking for is a thought-loopy visual horror: the kind where you constantly plunge into mouths of horrific beasts and snakes and whatnot. then self-inquire: who is afraid? who is being attacked? who sends these visuals, because I don't? Who draws these shapes?

If you can face the visuals with no fear, a part of your defense mechanisms has been shut off. All my deepest inquiries on psychedelics have been like this.

Realize that just like anything you see can't hurt you, nothing in the outer world can hurt YOU: the source of all sensory experience

And don't we all want to "let go", if only we know HOW?! Well, surrendering to thought loops and visual loops is definitely one way to do it

Damn good advice, thank you. You're suggesting I actually embrace any kind of fearful experience as an opportunity to realise my true indestructible nature and surrender my 'self.' Having this in mind will ironically help me to relax a lot more, if I'm not trying to avoid anything nasty. A part of me thinks that having an all-round beautiful experience won't exactly grow me, plus the pendulum of duality will always swing things back at some point. 

8 hours ago, Bluebird said:

Again, good luck trying to induce ego death. I've tried it before, it took a high dose for it to happen and the result was NOT pretty!

@Bluebird 

What went wrong for your first ego death? Did you resist it or something? I still can't get my head around how this is a fearful experience as don't people know they're tripping when it happens? Also if it's something you wanted...can someone explain? 

[Bluebird]

@Wisebaxter I can explain.

I didn't resist it, I went into it fully. It was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. Was I afraid, fuck yes! I literally was dying, it's not that bad, but like it definitely scares you. And when you are some kind of nondual state you can start freaking out. It came together for me on my latest trip (I wrote up a trip report on here). 

I'm happy everything happened the way it did. I was frolicking around in nondual bliss for a long long time, living lifetimes and shit. I really loved it.

However, when I came back down to my ego more fully I had walked into my neighbours' place. He had called the cops, the cops handcuffed me and called an ambulance. I'm still thinking this is part of the trip, I had ascended and none of this shit matter to me anymore.

Anyway I was taken to hospital, kept there for a few hours, my parents were called but it was midnight so they didn't pick up. Just awoke to a message saying I was in the emergency department. I didn't have my phone or wallet on me so I couldn't call anyone for help.

I caught a taxi back to my place after they let me out at like 1am. I get back and I'd destroyed my place, broken plants, flipped cabinents, torn the top of a glass table off, pulled off all my clothes and shit. There was dirt everywhere. I had crushed my guitar by falling on it. This didn't matter to me because I was in this nondual state. But when I came back down it suddenly mattered again....

Anyway, all I'm saying is. Be careful (again this was on 600ug), I couldn't really control myself and the shock of realising my true nature led to a god head feeling that my entire life was a lie and so didn't matter. I thought at the time I was handling it really well, I didn't handle it so well.

Also I pissed myself thinking I was having the best orgasm of my life, ahha.

That's all I meant about it not being pretty. I mean, during the trip I had the most beautiful time of my life. But just remember, you'll come back down and your ego will be left to clean up the mess.

Still, I think it was all worth it.

[Wisebaxter]

@Bluebird Holy shit, that sounds insane. I'm a little worried about hiring out a hotel room now. Even on 150ug what if I decide I'm God and trash the place? Could this be possible on this amount? Part of me wants to just go out and take it in the countryside now. 600ug is a huge dose. Was it your first time doing that much? Damn if only I had a trip sitter. 

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Bluebird Holy shit, that sounds insane. I'm a little worried about hiring out a hotel room now. Even on 150ug what if I decide I'm God and trash the place? Could this be possible on this amount? Part of me wants to just go out and take it in the countryside now. 600ug is a huge dose. Was it your first time doing that much? Damn if only I had a trip sitter. 

Three factors that affect a trip: Dosage, mindset and setting.

Harm anxiety throws off mindset, your “inner game”. Sometimes during a trip as  the self loses control and the ego can rebel and get anxious thinking all sorts of crazy things “What if I lose control and run outside screaming slurs? What if I text my colleugues naked photos? I could lose my job!!! What if I trash my house? We can’t have this!!! I must retain control!!”

While sober, the mind can easily see these are irrational thoughts. Yet while tripping it’s much harder. It seems more real and that it could actually happen. A mind can talk itself down, yet it can be challenging.

I would recommend having respect for the substance and understand how powerful it is. Yet, heading in to the trip already carrying in harm anxiety is not a healthy mindset imo. It’s best to have a mind that is open, relaxed and humble. Diring the comeup, get silly - laugh, sing, dance - play funny music and videos.

If you are concerned of anxiety harm, just bring a benzo or etizolam to “kill” the trip. Knowing you can kill it will increase confidence and relax the mind - knowing there is an escape hatch.

Also bring a variety of things to do. Music, journaling, creative, videos, walking. Shifting activities can shift the trip. Go with the flow. If it gets too intense during meditation, Rick and Morty videos can be great for relaxing the mind a bit. Then, perhaps returnbti meditation or writing. Or staring at a painting for an hour, haha,

Before my first Aya ceremony, I started getting anxious. I was reading about bad  experiences and started creating all these “what if” stories. I even asked a shaman what should I do if I freak out. A couple hours before the ceremony I was sitting on the temple steps, wringing my hands. I debated back and forth whether to do the ceremony, I traveled all this way and soent so much money, yet I didn’t want to experience all the scary scenarios running through my head. Then, woman approached the temple. Her aura was so joyful. She told me how wonderful it was to be here. She said how grateful and excited she was to reunite with the beauty of Mother Aya. She was like a child on Christmas Eve. She radiated joy, love and kindness. Her energy was contagious. I started feeling a bit giddy and excited. I asked if I could sit next to her at the ceremony. My whole mindset changed. I became full of childlike wonder and anticipation. I was smiling and giggling with her. Then, we drank the Aya and I relaxed and let go into the most magical, loving, beautiful reality I could imagine. . . If I had entered with all that anxiety, entertaining stories of how awful this will be - it may have been a very different trip.

For me, the two mindets most likely to lead to rough rides are anxiety and cockiness.

[Strikr]

 

[Wisebaxter]

@Serotoninluv That's really helpful, thank you. I am actually gonna take some valium with me in case of emergencies. I'll use it as a last resort though and try dancing, singing or doing some artwork first though like you suggested.

I loved that story about the retreat. I can just imagine that women and how you felt when you saw her. It was almost like the earth goddess herself arrive to comfort you  awesome. I'm gonna picture her in my head during my trip if I have to. 

[Wisebaxter]

@Strikr Haha I LOVE that tune! The lyrics are so cool and the actual tune itself sounds amazing. That's going straight onto my tripping playlist 

[Bluebird]

@Wisebaxter Having a friend who you can call to calm you down will work well.

150ug is still low enough that if you really do start to freak out, you can resist it anyway and just sob in the corner (absolute worst case - and it's super unlikely).

But reframe it anyway, let's say you trash the place. Who really gives a fuck. In the end, I came out the other side much stronger and with a lot of growth (kinda glad it happened). So, all good brother.

If you have a countryside area, that would be great. It's your first acid trip so unlikely you'll experience a crazy ego-death or anything. But best to have preparations, a valium is a good idea.

Make sure to write up a trip report

[Wisebaxter]

2 hours ago, Bluebird said:

@Wisebaxter Having a friend who you can call to calm you down will work well.

150ug is still low enough that if you really do start to freak out, you can resist it anyway and just sob in the corner (absolute worst case - and it's super unlikely).

But reframe it anyway, let's say you trash the place. Who really gives a fuck. In the end, I came out the other side much stronger and with a lot of growth (kinda glad it happened). So, all good brother.

If you have a countryside area, that would be great. It's your first acid trip so unlikely you'll experience a crazy ego-death or anything. But best to have preparations, a valium is a good idea.

Make sure to write up a trip report

Well I'm not working at present so I wouldn't have the money to pay for the damages. If only I could trip in a big room full of plastic brick structures, so if I become God the destroyer I can just smite everything and not worry. 

Lol sob in the corner, that's funny. I think I'll be ok dude. I am taking a valium with me. 

Don't have anyone to come and sit with me. I sacked all of my friends for various reasons. My girlfriend would also just freak out herself too much and make it worse I'm sure. It's ok, I'll solo this bitch. 

[Bluebird]

Go for it man. You'll be fine. 

To be honest. Take some fun stuff as well. Pineapple and orange juice and music. 

It'll be great!

[pluto]

The loops may actually be what one needs to spiral out of control so one can lose his/her mind and ego-death may just follow. I noticed people who trip together stop each other from getting lost in loops when in reality i think that is exactly what needs to happen for an transcendental experience to occur. Notice on DMT especially if you are more out of tune(shall we say) everything is spiraling out of control until you finally lose it and surrender. There cannot be light without darkness.

Edited December 15, 2018 by pluto

[Wisebaxter]

On 15/12/2018 at 7:12 AM, pluto said:

The loops may actually be what one needs to spiral out of control so one can lose his/her mind and ego-death may just follow. I noticed people who trip together stop each other from getting lost in loops when in reality i think that is exactly what needs to happen for an transcendental experience to occur. Notice on DMT especially if you are more out of tune(shall we say) everything is spiraling out of control until you finally lose it and surrender. There cannot be light without darkness.

@pluto Well there seems to be some division about these thought loops. Some say they aren't related to ego death, other suggest they are. Only one way to find out eh? I'll update you on Christmas Day as I'll be tripping on Christmas Eve 

On 14/12/2018 at 10:04 PM, Bluebird said:

Go for it man. You'll be fine. 

To be honest. Take some fun stuff as well. Pineapple and orange juice and music. 

It'll be great!

@Bluebird Thanks my friend, for all the help. Can't wait to debrief you all

[TheAvatarState]

@Wisebaxter it's great that you're doing a lot of research, but keep this one simple rule in mind: nothing can prepare you for the real experience. Nothing. Adding more research and theory at this point may hinder more than help...

I would say the come-up is arguably the most important and underrated stage of  the trip. That's the part you have the most conscious control over, and it will set the tone for the entire thing. Prioritize comfort and chill, soothing music. Drop all expectations, breathe, and surrender. A beautiful trip is all but guaranteed if you do this. Intent is obviously very important. However, it is separate from expectations of sensory feelings or emotions. Drop those as best as you can. 

[luckieluuke]

Had this weird experience on my last trip (not lsd) where at I was writing some stuff and happened upon two words I use in two different languages. If you flip one it kinda becomes the other but they mean completely different things but are related and even the same in a way. The more I thought about the words it seems like they shouldn't be able to exist simultaneously. It was like the reality broke down.
Like...i don´t know how to say this in english: like when a sauce splits or breaks when you use oil and fat LOL
Anyway it made me lose my ego but only for a short time, like a few minutes glimpse.

Bottom line it´s nice to have an intent going into a trip but don´t plan to much or you´ll set up expectations. Everything can trigger a egodeath you just need to listen to it.

[Wisebaxter]

19 hours ago, TheAvatarState said:

it's great that you're doing a lot of research, but keep this one simple rule in mind: nothing can prepare you for the real experience. Nothing. Adding more research and theory at this point may hinder more than help...

I would say the come-up is arguably the most important and underrated stage of  the trip. That's the part you have the most conscious control over, and it will set the tone for the entire thing. Prioritize comfort and chill, soothing music. Drop all expectations, breathe, and surrender. A beautiful trip is all but guaranteed if you do this. Intent is obviously very important. However, it is separate from expectations of sensory feelings or emotions. Drop those as best as you can. 

@TheAvatarState  Great advice buddy. I've stopped doing all of my research now. Awesome to be aware that the come up is the most important stage. In terms of my intentions, should I just forget about these during the come up stage and meditate/relax like you say? I mean like, any questions I have etc..

14 hours ago, luckieluuke said:

Had this weird experience on my last trip (not lsd) where at I was writing some stuff and happened upon two words I use in two different languages. If you flip one it kinda becomes the other but they mean completely different things but are related and even the same in a way. The more I thought about the words it seems like they shouldn't be able to exist simultaneously. It was like the reality broke down.

@luckieluuke So it was kind of like you had a direct insight into the arbitrary nature of language and this triggered a mystical experience for you? Sweet. I'm so frigging excited right now. Christmas eve can't come fast enough. I'll be sure to not focus on expectations, thanks 

[TheAvatarState]

@Wisebaxter yeah, imo, you should focus on your intent in the days prior, then don't think about it during the comeup. I find that focusing on that stuff makes me nervous, and is a distraction. Your true self already knows what it wants, it will guide you. Just focus on calmness, surrender, and joy. Don't forget to smile, it's really powerful during the comeup.

[Wisebaxter]

@TheAvatarState Ah you're the best dude. You and others on here will be the deciding element in the quality of my trip. What a great forum. I feel like I have a team of qualified trippers backing me  

[TheAvatarState]

@Wisebaxter HA! By all accounts, you can consider me a certified psychonaut. ?

I'm excited for you! And you're doing it on Christmas, how amazing is that??

[Wisebaxter]

@TheAvatarState I can definately tell you've explored the recesses of your psyche and the cosmos. I'll be putting on my psychonaut helmet and joining you shortly. Reporting for duty sir! 

Yeah a Christmas trip seems perfect for me. Shall I go to midnight mass? Haha screw that.

What better occasion is there to catch a glimpse of God though? 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Wisebaxter