Anyone else feel worse for suffering animals than people?

[Butters]

This makes no rational sense at all but emotionally I feel this way. 

[kieranperez]

@Butters remember, suffering has nothing to do rationality but purely emotional. 

This is good. Your sense of concern is broadening beyond your clan. 

I actually am starting to feel more of this myself. I grew up in a hard nosed stage Orange atheist house where rationality mattered more. I never grew up with animals and I never understood the whole obsession some people have over their dogs and other pets... until we got a dog. Once we got a dog I understood and felt more pain if I saw or heard about other animals being abused and when I see owners drag their dogs and I feel for that animal. It was weird at first but now I understand. A few months ago I really wanted to take this a step further and actually open up to the suffering more by researching factory farming and that tore my heart out. This has really allowed me to move into Green and evolve out of this selfish concern for just myself and my own worldview of people are what matter and that we’re smarter. This sort of suffering, without all the moralism and ideological crusading that goes with it, I think is good. Orange people and even lots of people who pursue spirituality who never want to feel suffering again and also have trascended suffering don’t understand. It takes a real master to step down off that mountain high of realizing God to be willing to feel both the bliss that you are God and you are untouched and at the same time feel the pain and suffering of all beings. Whether they be people, animals, fish, trees, air, etc. a perfect example of this is Christ.

So, yes I’m in that same boat.

Edited December 5, 2018 by kieranperez

[lmfao]

@Butters in some sense animals are like human infants in their mental state. They come across as pure and genuine in contrast to manipulative and unauthentic humans, from my perspective. 

Idk man the answer to this question ain't simple. Like part of me wants to say yes for some situations but for other situations the answer is no. Like I could kill and eat a chicken but I couldn't kill and eat a human. 

[Charlotte]

@Butters Yes and I think it's because I feel they don't have a say, they don't have a voice, they are completely at the mercy of man so therefore very vulnerable. Although I do feel the same empathy when a baby is harmed or somebody that commits suicide, so I'm guessing it's the vulnerability aspect of it that leads to these emotions (for me personally).

That being said, the suffering I inflict on myself is not healthy and needs to be transcended.

[Eric Tarpall]

A hamster bit me once and then I squeezed it really hard with my hand as revenge. And a few days later it died. I still don't know if it was my fault. But feeling bad about it won't change anything.

[aurum]

@Butters

No because there’s no difference between animals and people.

We sometimes put the suffering of animals higher up because we see them as “innocent”. That they lack awareness and therefore it doesn’t make sense to judge. 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

No but it still sucks that any sentient being should suffer.  To the extent that I can do something to mitigate any suffering that I have control over, I usually try to do that.  Otherwise, I don;t really worry about it because it's not something that's at issue for me in the moment.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Elysian]

4 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

No but it still sucks that any sentient being should suffer.  To the extent that I can do something to mitigate any suffering that I have control over, I usually try to do that.  Otherwise, I don;t really worry about it because it's not something that's at issue for me in the moment.

Do what you can in the moment, don't worry about what is out of your control.

[Kloof]

@lmfaoI think you're spot on! I read an article a while ago that hypothesized this.

They did a study where they gave participants one of four news articles and then measured how upset participants were by the news.

The article said, "[Victim] was attacked with a baseball bat and was found unconscious, with a broken leg, and multiple lacerations." One news article said the victim was an adult human, one was an infant, one was a dog, and one was a puppy.

People didn't feel very upset when an adult was attacked, but people felt roughly equal amounts of empathy for puppies, dogs, and infants. The studied concluded, "Only relative to the infant victim did the adult dog receive lower scores of empathy." 

The study was summarized like this:
"Our results indicate a much more complex situation with respect to the age and the species of victims, with age being the more important component. The fact that adult crime victims receive less empathy than do child, puppy, and full-grown dog victims suggest that adult dogs are regarded as dependent and vulnerable, not unlike their younger canine counterparts and kids."

Here's the article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201711/why-people-sometimes-care-more-about-dogs-humans

[Butters]

37 minutes ago, Shiva said:

@Butters Does this include all animals, like insects, fish and spiders, too? If not, why not?

LOL it sure doesn't, only cuddly ones like bunnies, dogs and horses. Probably some projection rather than real affection? Just like people feel good about themselves when they give to charity, and that's the reason they give. 

Spwawns the question whether or not true selflessness exists... 

But I think it's good for me to open up to caring for animals and being more in touch with my emotions as I transition into Green. 

[SgtPepper]

I feel for all suffering. 

[lmfao]

@Kloof nice post. 

[Hellspeed]

No way, you need to equal the feeling. 

[Gladrich]

Someone recently told me that Nothing really exists so there is no suffering and there is no pleasure and no anger and no love. Nobody killed a bunch of people in Vegas or Columbine or WWII... There are no suffering animals in factory farms.  There just is. Enjoy looking out at the world through the eyes of your human “meat-suit “ ..you made it all. So free yourself from guilt. Freddy ....Nothing really matters...

Edited December 15, 2018 by Gladrich

[K VIL]

i feel the opposite most times. my dog has no ego when hes in pain. just want to relieve it.

my pops used to have the voice to match it and it made me feel more from sympathy

[ZZZZ]

On 12/6/2018 at 0:33 PM, Shiva said:

True!

What gets you to Yellow tough is when you start caring about a spider or a worm as much as about a cute little puppy.

What gets you to Turquoise is when you start caring about a spider or a worm as much as about your mum.

I have a vivid memory of being made fun of for being upset that someone killed a spider for no reason when I was like 16 years old. It was a bit out of character for me, but I remember being deeply emotionally affected by it lol. 

[DrewNows]

On 12/6/2018 at 1:24 PM, Hellspeed said:

No way, you need to equal the feeling. 

Yup. We like to judge humans as we have much relational experience and misconceptions about how people should live.

Meanwhile animals are foreign, unrelatable, and often projected upon to be as we think best fits our world view 

 

[Cortex]

This makes a great rational sense of course I do

[sgn]

@Butters Because you see them as more innocent?

[EternalForest]

Never. At best I'd feel equal suffering for both, but by default I'm going to look out for my own species first. Honesty, I find it disturbing for someone to feel little suffering while watching their own species get tortured, compared to an animal they can't even communicate with. If I was on a sinking ship, and could only save a cat or a guy, I'd save the guy.