Accept Climate Change

[Matt8800]

Climate change is inevitable. Billions of humans, along with a lot of other species, are going to suffer and die. There is nothing we can do so we should accept it.

This is not the first time a species has radically altered the planet to the point it could no longer survive in its environment. There was a massive die-off and a small fraction adapted to its new environment (evolution). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event. Of couse if that species wouldnt have lived and died off, we wouldnt have any oxygen in our atmosphere. 

The reason why the extinction event occurred is because it was so successful with reproduction and survival, it eventually ran out of environment to expand into. People talk about how we shouldnt eat certain foods because it will alter the planet. Nobody is talking about what chimpanzees are eating and the reason why is because there populations are too small to have any effect. 

The root problem is over-population. If we enact everything within our power to hold back climate change, that will just allow humans to keep reproducing. We all have the noble goal of ending hunger, homelessness, violence and guaranteeing health care to everyone so they can live longer and reproduce more. That just delays the inevitable because when species flourish, they reproduce quickly. Eventually, there will be nothing that can be done except mandatory sterilization and that would be hugely unpopular for obvious reasons.

I believe many will die and some will go on to adapt to their new environment. Evolution will continue as it has always done because that is the nature of the universe. There was a lot of suffering with survival of the fittest to get us where we are today. Suffering is the necessary fuel for evolution. In hindsight, we can always see how it had to be the way it was and couldnt have been any other way.

I agree with Advaita Vedanta that says that the True Self/Atman continues to evolve to infinity. 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Matt8800

[Emerald]

... or we could try to create a more harmonious relationship between the human species and the Earth. If our technology can mess it up, our technology can also be made in a way that doesn't. 

[fewrocker]

We need a change of paradigm

 

Will this change come naturally when people realize the damage that is being done?

 

Or will the change come radically after a huge conflict?

[Jack River]

The problem seems to lie in the lack of relationship with ourselves, which is expressed in relationship with others/environment. 

It all starts with I(me). 

[fewrocker]

We need a change of paradigm

 

Will this change come naturally when people realize the damage that is being done?

 

Or will the change come radically after a huge conflict?

[RichardY]

I accept the climate changes.

[DrewNows]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

... or we could try to create a more harmonious relationship between the human species and the Earth. If our technology can mess it up, our technology can also be made in a way that doesn't. 

Yes but it isn’t just the technology. There will have to be a shift or psychological evolution to change society and our relationships.

Awesome part is we can all make the change within ourselves and have a positive impact on everything else  

[Matt8800]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

... or we could try to create a more harmonious relationship between the human species and the Earth. If our technology can mess it up, our technology can also be made in a way that doesn't. 

Can 10 billion humans have a harmonious relationship with the earth? 20 billion? 50 billion? 200 billion?

Are you saying that technology will allow an infinite amount of humans to flourish on the planet? Who is going to pay for it? Where are they going to get the money from? Why would you think they would pay for it?

[Matt8800]

11 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Yes but it isn’t just the technology. There will have to be a shift or psychological evolution to change society and our relationships.

Awesome part is we can all make the change within ourselves and have a positive impact on everything else  

The point is that if we make "positive" changes, then the environment can sustain life longer. If the environment can sustain life, humans continue to reproduce. Eventually, it reaches the breaking point.

There is not enough that can be done to avoid climate change indefinitely unless humans start mandating sterilization to control populations and I doubt that will happen.

[Matt8800]

1 hour ago, fewrocker said:

We need a change of paradigm

 

Will this change come naturally when people realize the damage that is being done?

 

Or will the change come radically after a huge conflict?

Change will come when the environment is radically changed and the population is greatly reduced. Then the survivors will adapt to their environment and eventually flourish again.

[DrewNows]

Just now, Matt8800 said:

The point is that if we make "positive" changes, then the environment can sustain life longer. If the environment can sustain life, humans continue to reproduce. Eventually, it reaches the breaking point.

There is not enough that can be done to avoid climate change indefinitely unless humans start mandating sterilization to control populations and I doubt that will happen.

Climate change will not be resolved unless we address the root cause of all the problems. Overpopulation is not the root cause and control will never be the solution 

[Matt8800]

57 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Climate change will not be resolved unless we address the root cause of all the problems. Overpopulation is not the root cause and control will never be the solution 

I suppose we could debate the root cause of overpopulation but overpopulation is what is causing climate change. The earth cannot support an infinite amount of humans.

There is no solution that will be enacted. Climate change will happen and billions of people will suffer. Populations will be reduced, they will adapt and go on to flourish once again just how evolution has always worked. 

[DrewNows]

1 hour ago, Matt8800 said:

I suppose we could debate the root cause of overpopulation but overpopulation is what is causing climate change. The earth cannot support an infinite amount of humans.

There is no solution that will be enacted. Climate change will happen and billions of people will suffer. Populations will be reduced, they will adapt and go on to flourish once again just how evolution has always worked. 

Yes we must first accept our current situation and it’s  consequences. Not sure about your speculation of population reduction or what kind of research you’ve done looking at growth rates but just like climate change, overpopulation is another result of conflict/corruption/dysfunction/division 

 

you may be surprised by how many people this planet can comfortably hold especially if our interactions/relationships change

Edited December 5, 2018 by DrewNows

[Matt8800]

13 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Yes we must first accept our current situation and it’s  consequences. Not sure about your speculation of population reduction or what kind of research you’ve done looking at growth rates but just like climate change, overpopulation is another result of conflict/corruption/dysfunction/division 

During the Oxygenation Event, did the bacteria overpopulate due to conflict/corruption/dysfunction/division? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event

Regarding research, here are some articles you can review: 

https://sciencing.com/effects-animal-overpopulation-8249633.html

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161207091852.htm

Without environmental pressures, all species will continue to multiply until they overpopulate their environment until it cant support them. This is far from new information. This is a major factor of evolution. Evolution resumes when environmental pressures resume.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Matt8800

[DrewNows]

@Matt8800Life is all about relationships, and for humans the most important one being the one we have with ourselves. The more educated humanity has become, the less overpopulation is the issue. In the US already people choose not to reproduce if they cannot afford to have a child. 

You may be underestimating our ability to adapt and thrive. It is definitely true if a species is not fit to survive, they will be wiped out and replaced. The earth is like one giant organism full of life, continuously evolving. 

[Matt8800]

13 hours ago, DrewNows said:

@Matt8800Life is all about relationships, and for humans the most important one being the one we have with ourselves. The more educated humanity has become, the less overpopulation is the issue. In the US already people choose not to reproduce if they cannot afford to have a child. 

Unfortunately, data doesnt support that theory. The trend in the last 100 years (the most educated time in human history) has exploded. https://fruitworldmedia.com/index.php/featured/2602/

Life relationships and their importance are not relevant to the rate at which humans breed. Animals have sex drives. They have sex and reproduce. If the environment is favorable to survival, they continue to breed unimpeded. Its as simple as that.

Yes, the educated minority may be choosing to have less children but the majority are breeding at a fast clip. If you're not sure about that, just walk into any Walmart and just observe.

13 hours ago, DrewNows said:

You may be underestimating our ability to adapt and thrive. It is definitely true if a species is not fit to survive, they will be wiped out and replaced. The earth is like one giant organism full of life, continuously evolving. 

No, Im not underestimating adaptation. Evolution/adaptation has been happening since life first appeared on this planet and will continue. Humans will once again come under evolutionary pressure of survival of the fittest. Most will not be able to adapt and a few will. I suspect that it will be the minority that are more educated and wealthy. They will go on to evolve.

The majority of the population that lives around the equator doesnt have a lot of options.

When you think of the human race, the world economy and civilization in general, think of impermanence and how it might apply to this. The feeling that somehow it is all permanent is a delusion.

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Matt8800

[DrewNows]

@Matt8800Appreciate the data and speculations but I don’t agree with you in comparing humans to other animals. 

It goes much deeper than what “data” will support. I am not interested in debating further. I just wanted to express my opinion. Overpopulation is Just one of many causes of climate change. I went to school to learn about sustainability/climate change etc so I totally see where you’re coming from, as in, we humans cannot get out of our own ways but it doesn’t mean we won’t stop trying to fix things. 

Only logical solutions are focusing on what we can change but even this will be futile until (how I see it) there is a shift in consciousness 

[Matt8800]

1 hour ago, DrewNows said:

@Matt8800Appreciate the data and speculations but I don’t agree with you in comparing humans to other animals. 

 

That is a mistake most people make. I suppose other apes would also consider the same species as "us" and other species as different. In that way, we are not different. We are more intelligent but all species have varying degrees of intelligence without putting their "animal" status in question.

People associate shoulds and shouldnts with human behavior even though they realize other animals dont have free-will. The illusion that humans have free will, unlike the other animals, is persistent. 

You might feel humans should act a certain way but they will largely continue to act according to their animal hard-wiring and continue to mate/breed until the environment can no longer support it.

[Matt8800]

2 hours ago, Shiva said:

Yes, there have been climate changes throughout the history of the planet, but how do you know this one that we are facing right now is inevitable? Evidence suggests that we are very much responsible and as such digging our own grave.

If that is so, we might as well stop digging, isn't it?

 

People would say we should stop digging but we wont. We will continue to act according to our animal instinct and mate/breed until the environment can no longer support it.

[DrewNows]

2 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

You might feel humans should act a certain way but they will largely continue to act according to their animal hard-wiring and continue to mate/breed until the environment can no longer support it.

Dude we can individually prevent pregnancy and still mate 

Anyhow it’s all relative/subjective. I don’t give a shit what truth you’re pointing at...you have your opinion about what will happen and it’s not Truth