Fear

[Jack River]

Tell me, when a bus is speeding your way do you act and move out of danger, or think about acting?

[Charlotte]

@Jack River I understand what your saying. If that's the case, why does a child stand in the road? I mean there's many of times I've had to drag my niece from the road in case she gets hit. We have had to teach her that you can get hurt from numerous scenarios. 

I'm not questioning you by the way, genuinely curious.

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

@Jack River I understand what your saying. If that's the case, why does a child stand in the road? I mean there's many of times I've had to drag my niece from the road in case she gets hit. We have had to teach her that you can get hurt from numerous scenarios. 

I'm not questioning you by the way, genuinely curious.

Hey I have had that happen with my nephew as well dude. Scary. 

The same as a little cub/lion out in safari...needs protection from its papa/mama as it hasn’t reached a certain age yet. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Charlotte]

If we move out of the way through intelligence why is then we have to teach children to move from dangerous situations? Wouldn't they already possess it? @Jack River

[Jack River]

Your not gettting my point about the intelligence response I made to you? 

To me fear is more of a “me” coming to an end. As in psychological ending. 

And when the body acts completely/totlay without thought/self thinking about it that is an action of intelligence(the organism protecting itself). 

Fear/action seems more psychological 

intelligence seems more biological 

but intelligence actually seems to be a harmony between the emotions/intellect. When the intellect takes over we get the psychological fear which seems to confuse/conflict total action. 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

If we move out of the way through intelligence why is then we have to teach children to move from dangerous situations? Wouldn't they already possess it? @Jack River

No because they haven’t biologically evolved quite yet. 

[Jack River]

The fear you refered to being dangerous is the fear of thought psychologically, right? 

That means there is a incoherence operating in thought. A supposed divison between the experiencer and the experience, which creates a confused response of action or non action. As is suggesting in the tread tittle. 

Psychological Fear is the result of the supposed divison. Attachment/resistance/identification. 

Intelligence sees this and ends it instantly/totally. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

You get what I’m getting at my dudet?

when you see the danger in psychological fear, do you think “oh I should end that, how can I end it”, or do you simply end it? 

From the notion of being a self we tend to think about how do I get rid of this fear. Which is what breeds that fear. 

So intelligent action sees the danger and end it right then. It doesn’t ask how do I, what should I do..it acts wholly. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jack River

[non_nothing]

Look, this is why I write you a response under this thread because I think this of your fear and state needs to be absolutely taken care.

 

It is the fact that very exists in your experience right now. Anyone who denies this fact is unable to help you. They might be true or not in what they are saying but neglecting your experience right now is total ignorance.

 

What I'd like to offer you is, say yes to the question of "can we eliminate fear completely?" yes it is very possible. Great news isn't it?

The thing is that is your journey to discover. Throughout my experience, I've seen lot of examples and spoon-feeding does not help any. 

But that does not mean also I won't show and tell you what is a spoon? in order to help you.

The spoon is the following method:

Even for a second, tenth of thousands of one second, for an instance, you can for sure tell me that you can find a space where you feel safe. Alright? Well what do I mean? I mean I claim that you have the power to put everything for a second aside, then feel safe for one second. Try this. Yes It is perfectly fine that we still have troubles and fears about past future and even now. You can still have those but I just want to come to an agreement with you that you can tell me that you can create even just for a second that safe imaginary unicorn sunshine rainbow whatever you might wanna call space that allows you to feel somewhat safe without fear.

 

This being said. I want you to experience this for yourself. Try to do and see if I'm right about what I've said. Then we can move on further steps. Mention or quote from me, in order to proceed with the next steps. Till then take care.

 

[Jack River]

FEAR=TIME (the continuity of self). 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Annoynymous]

@non_nothing i have done it. Then?

[robdl]

23 hours ago, Annoynymous said:

People here all the time talks about fear, how it is helding us back, how it is an illusion etc. But what fear actually is essentially? And how to dissolve or overcomw fear?

Thank you in advance.

This is where thought/fear is sneaky.   That which wants to overcome the fear is also one and the same process as the fear. 

The mind/ego creates the false duality of a fearful entity that is opposed to fear, but it is one, unitary process.  This false duality, or division between thinker and thought, is what fuels the ego/fear.

The ego is sustained by the division between thinker and thought. Fear is sustained by the division between fearful entity and fear.    As fear is thought.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by robdl

[non_nothing]

44 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@non_nothing i have done it. Then?

Okay so I suppose that you know understand It is possible to create this little space for even a second of time. Even it does not completely nor it has to eliminate all the fear. 

So we would say you have a tool now. We must trust in this tool.

Now we will just imagine and try to understand the following: (spoiler: this has nothing to do with the tool above) imagine you had a magic wand and you could magically do whatever you want to do in this life. (repeating again, this has nothing to do with the tool above, nor such a magic tool exists)

Would it be possible for you to use that magic wand to cast spell in order to vanish all the fear? (Last: nothing to do with tool above) We're just trying to establish some logical constructions here. Please don't just rush and say "yeah of course are you a dumb or something?" rather try to get in the idea even if you will close your eyes and think for a second how would it be to use such a tool?

[robdl]

In actuality, does a thinker experience thought-fear? Or does thought-fear experience a thinker which divides itself from the fear?

If it's the former, we will try to fight it, overcome it.   But if it's the latter, then we can realize that the effort-resistance to overcome fear is the very perpetuation of fear; the very feeding of fear/ego itself.

Edited December 5, 2018 by robdl

[Forestluv]

 

2 hours ago, Charlotte said:

I understand what your saying. If that's the case, why does a child stand in the road? I mean there's many of times I've had to drag my niece from the road in case she gets hit. We have had to teach her that you can get hurt from numerous scenarios. 

I'm not questioning you by the way, genuinely curious.

It seems some dangerous situations are learned and others are innate. For example, the child need to learn that entering a road may be dangerous because a car may be approaching. Yet, what if a child stood on the side of a cliff and looked down. Assuming the child was never told it would be dangerous to jump. Do you think the child would intuitively know it would be dangerous to jump? 

[Jack River]

14 minutes ago, robdl said:

In actuality, does a thinker experience thought-fear? Or does thought-fear experience a thinker which divides itself from the fear?

If it's the former, we will try to fight it, overcome it.   But if it's the latter, then we can realize that the effort-resistance to overcome fear is the very perpetuation of fear; the very feeding of fear/ego itself.

It’s pretty gnarly..The divided action of self/thought to control(progressively change fear with time/cultivation/effort) actually feeds that movement of fear/divison. 

[Jack River]

Divided action as such will not act instantly and totally. It’s inherenet structure feeds off its tendency of coming to an action ‘gradually’ over time/accumulation/cultivation. 

This puts action further away in time. Really a resistance to act totally/wholly NOW. 

This insight blew my freakin mind not apart, but together. Made whole. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Annoynymous]

@non_nothing if i had magic wand that i would have used it to erase all the events that happened in the past which brought undesirable outcomes in my life and i would change them in accordance with my desireable outcome.

In present,  i would use the wand to stop happening those circumstances which make me feel weak, unwanted, unlovable, worthless piece of shit.  

[Preetom]

7 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@non_nothing if i had magic wand that i would have used it to erase all the events that happened in the past which brought undesirable outcomes in my life and i would change them in accordance with my desireable outcome.

In present,  i would use the wand to stop happening those circumstances which make me feel weak, unwanted, unlovable, worthless piece of shit.  

What's so wrong about being a worthless piece of shit?

Can you accept yourself as 100% worthless piece of shit just right now? Not for the rest of your life or for next 5-10 years but just right now!

[Annoynymous]

@Preetom when i feel, i don't rationalize or i just cant rationalize. That is the way it is for me. Uncomfortable feeling comes, and i become agitated. I dont have on/off button. It happens in auto mode.