I am not enlightened, but further than all that claim such a thing. Ask me anything

[Arhattobe]

1- I don’t have a guide line per say, I’ll try to come up with one that captures everything I was want to communicate, but kind of tired now lol. 

2- I do understand why you would be curious. Understand your perspective, but will choose not to engage this line of inquiry because like I said it will not be productive.

I’m regards to your problems with your perfectionists problems. Sorry to hear that. That’s why nuance is important. 

 

[Mu_]

10 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

1- I don’t have a guide line per say, I’ll try to come up with one that captures everything I was want to communicate, but kind of tired now lol. 

2- I do understand why you would be curious. Understand your perspective, but will choose not to engage this line of inquiry because like I said it will not be productive.

I’m regards to your problems with your perfectionists problems. Sorry to hear that. That’s why nuance is important. 

 

Sounds like a worthwhile thing to do.

And thanks for the concern, its not something I deal with on a conscious level much these days, atleast not in that same form. 

I'm actually more interested in your opinions on what I said in the last few paragraphs,What are your thoughts on Self consuming Self, never not Self, the relationship of Self and "right" action.  And if you believe in right action, how would you encapsulate that?

[TheAvatarState]

@Arhattobe What is humor? What is its source?

[tsuki]

On 4.12.2018 at 7:50 PM, Arhattobe said:

There are vastly different states of being. One can experience life like a sociopath, a psychopath, a schizophrenic, a regular person, a good person, a person in a non dual state. 

The difference between these states is extremely real, and extremely vast.

Every layer in ones system, emotions, layers that give birth to emotion. Thoughts, layers that give birth to thought. Decision making apparatus, layers that lead to decision making. And numerous layers not mentioned all come together to create your experience.

In most mystical states, non dual people look at the surface layer of themselves. Let’s say thought layer. Think to themselves it’s kind of empty, and completely ignore the underlying layers of karma. 

Enlightenment to me is not non dual experience. Non dual understanding. Regardless of how deep it might be. It’s the complete eradication of all those layers.

Complete zero. 

I currently am and have been for a long time in a non dual state, mostly in a thoughtless state as well. I can’t really think. Haven’t been able to for months. Although I have periods of release in which mind activity or thought activity become active. This, however, is far, far away from what I am referring to.

Complete zero is not something most can fathom. Most can not even see how much garbage lays in the underlying levels of their experience. Rightfully so. They have no other reference point. 

In comparison to tsunami, huge waves might seem serene. 

@Arhattobe Very informative, thank you. Another question: can you please explain what is karma?
Do you know any good (preferably modern) resources on this topic?

[SageModeAustin]

how do I get out of the dark knight of the soul?

[Arhattobe]

@Mu_ This is part of what I mean by nuance.

Realising the self is one thing. The implications, and conclusions one comes to from that, and how that realisation is filtered, and perverted through the intellect and karmic body is another.

The self strives for growth, if it isn’t doing so. It is in delusion, it is attempting to escape, going against its directive and/or dharma. 

Just as a serial killer has a lot of room for growth so does an awakened person, and if you think serial killers don’t have a lot of room for growth. As if them being the “self” negates the reality of their suffering and need to grow. Then we have a big issue on our hands

.@TheAvatarState Odd question. Sorry, but I don’t see the relevance of the question on the path. Please ask a more relevant one. 

@tsuki Through the creation of the intellect or through consuming the fruits of the tree of knowledge. Man falls from heaven.

Meaning through the creation of the intellect. Man becomes self aware, it tries to learn, to know, and to use its knowledge to survive.

Yet man can not know enough, learn enough, and it’s survival is always being threatened. 

This conflict gives birth to the base of one’s karmic body. Fear. Upon that primal fear all other self defence mechanisms (pieces of karma) are built. 

In short. Karma = The byproduct of the intellect’s conflict with itself.

@SageModeAustin A dark night of the soul happens because parts of ourselves, life or others that we looked away from. Need to come up to be seen. During a dark night we can no longer look away. Once we look directly into what needs to be seen, and learn all we need to learn from it. It passes.

In case it is caused by a systemic issue, I recommend trying to eat healthy, excercising, and avoiding stimulants and psychedelics. Let life teach you for while. It will if you listen <3

Good luck

[tsuki]

16 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@tsuki Through the creation of the intellect or through consuming the fruits of the tree of knowledge. Man falls from heaven.
Meaning through the creation of the intellect. Man becomes self aware, it tries to learn, to know, and to use its knowledge to survive.
Yet man can not know enough, learn enough, and it’s survival is always being threatened. 
This conflict gives birth to the base of one’s karmic body. Fear. Upon that primal fear all other self defence mechanisms (pieces of karma) are built. 
In short. Karma = The byproduct of the intellect’s conflict with itself.

@Arhattobe Thank you very much. 
I hope that you don't mind another related questions? My thirst for knowledge is insatiable .

1. What is the importance of self-reference with respect to karma?
   For example, there are thoughts about thoughts and emotions about emotions.
   How is self-reference related to self-awareness?
2. Are there collective expressions of karma?
   Can corporations amass karma?
3. Is karma equivalent to ego in your understanding?
   Is karma related to person's psychology, or can it also be a physical phenomenon?

There are multiple questions in each point. Please treat each point as one question seen from various angles.

Edited December 5, 2018 by tsuki

[Arhattobe]

@tsuki Np.

1- Awakening. Is becoming aware of the ground of existence. Becoming aware of the ground, however. Happens through a human system. Therefor this newfound “awareness” and its depth are limited to your systems level of gunk. Karma, and garbage.

When awakening happens most folks on the surface level of their system. Conscious self referencing level realise the “truth” yet there are countless underlying, and subconscious layers of one’s system. That due to readings eg need to survive will not follow suit.

Ones karmic life on a deeper level which is also “self referencing”, albeit it not on the gross thought level will continue.

Most people at this stage deny the underlying layers. Denial of the uncomfortable truths of life and one’s karmic life become much easier once the surface level is freed up.

2- Everything in existence communicates something, a reality. From gross objects to more abstract realities like cultures and ideas. 

What they communicate can interact with your system and cause a specific type of karma, but they do not store karma like human systems.

In short, in a way, yes, and in a way no.

3- Karma goes much deeper than what the term “ego” represents nowadays. That is why I make the distinction.

[TheAvatarState]

@Arhattobe If I'm not mistaken, you said "ask anything." I didn't realize your perceived relevance to a spiritual path was a factor. That being said, please answer me this: why is the 10th Ox herding picture of someone who's laugh can brighten multitudes of people? Why does the sense of humor and the wise, enlightened master usually go hand in hand? Is it just a byproduct of spiritual truth? A coincidence? Is this illusion? Or is there something more? 

Because I believe this to be very relevant, I'm curious of your opinions on this. Thank you

[tsuki]

1. Are the subconscious levels of karma perceivable? (I realize the absurdity of this question)
   Do they have names? Can you describe them? How do they manifest?
2. Is there a taxonomy of karma? I'm asking in relation to this response:

   18 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

   What they communicate can interact with your system and cause a specific type of karma, but they do not store karma like human systems.

    

3. What are the methods of working with karma? Can awakenings clear it?

[zambize]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have warned you guys.

But you refuse to listen.

The Buddha wasn't talkin shit on a forum but starving himself to death in the forest.

Not really a fair comparison cause the Buddha didn't have a forums to talk shit on

[Arhattobe]

@TheAvatarState well, that’s is what I meant . 

But I’ll attempt to answer your question even though I don’t necessarily agree with a lot of your assumptions.

I am not too familiar with the ox map, but I’ll try to make sense of it the best I can.

Humor mostly targets negativity, and shows us the stupidity of negativity in a new way. A way that can make us laugh at ourselves, others, culture or world. 

When an Average person engages in humor. They automatically attack and disenfranchise some people. Groups that are the butt of the joke. Groups that are looked down upon.

A fully enlightened being will do no such thing, however. He will target no one, and his smile will be pure genuinity. This will warm the hearts of those around him:)

@tsuki 1- They become perceivable as your progress. As your awareness reaches deeper and deeper levels, and as more and more karma comes up to be processed.

2- In regards to the types, names and taxonomies of karma. They exist. The 7 chakras and other energy centres for example store different types of karma. 

I will make a thread on karma at a later point to explain the different types of karma and etc. If people are interested:) rather not get into now though. Lot needs to be explained.

3- Awakenings can help clear some karma. So does the path on average. 

The 8 fold path is a good systemic approach on how to burn karma instead of acruing it:)

[Preetom]

@Arhattobe

1) What is desire?

2) Is there really such a thing called authentic desire? or is it just a more refined version of gross, unconscious desires?

3) you talk about escapism and stuff..but where do we draw the line actually? Let's say I can live alone just by earning 20k per year, woke and and all that. I can also work on my career and earn 100k+ per year and have a family, my own property and a place in hierarchical society. How can we know whether either or both of them are just karmic reactions or not? For a millionaire, maybe the hardest thing for him is to stop thinking and live alone in woods for a week and his whole life is about avoiding that. For the contemplative, having a lucrative but noisy job at stock market could be the hardest job. So is he shutting himself in his room and escaping his life?

Ultimately how can we know? Is there anything authentic in us, or are we just blobs running around, conditioned and programmed to it's marrow?

Edited December 5, 2018 by Preetom

[Preetom]

10 minutes ago, zambize said:

Not really a fair comparison cause the Buddha didn't have a forums to talk shit on

well..there certainly were groups of pundits and intellectual scholars who reserved and fought for their positions just like a landlord fought his wars.

Buddha could easily waste his life in that business, without ever living the Truth!

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Mu_ Been pondering along similar lines, and still only see vague outlines of a theory, but ill send some thoughts your way perhaps you can use. 

Surely everything is in perfect order, so no need to really get worked up about anything, yet from my position, as I experience / live out / am 'Is', there seems to be something about change that needs changing. As all other things, I arise as a reflection of Self, as a manifest of 'Is', and as I come to be so I am meant to be. So, if I believe that there are somethings that are in disorder then it means that there is something that is 'wrong' in the sense that it needs to change so that I now see no wrongness, or that I need to change so that there is no more perceived wrongness. 

Harmony and struggle are not exclusive of one another. All is a true expression of 'Is', so the only 'wrong' thing, in my eyes at least, would be the limitation of 'Is' by confining my free expression here now. If some madman came down the street punching people, and no one fought back as 'he is just troubled, violence is wrong, turn the other cheek as mom used to say' or something along those lines, then he would keep being a menace and those who did nothing will feel shame and guilt as he kills someone by them hitting their head on the curb or something. Not advocating violence, but in the face of violence, violence can sometimes be necessary to bring peace. And what better expression of unconditional love than mirroring his actions so that he may see his own shortcomings? 

If you feel like something is wrong about something, don't hold back by some mantra of 'all is good..... aum.... there is really nothing wrong...". You, as an expression of N(Is)W (That which is now haha tried to combine them), is right whatever you do and whatever you feel. So perhaps the world is completely fucked and we are now in a game of un-fucking it against some very strong powers that try to push it over the edge. Just try to love the game for what it is, and love your enemy for being there for you to be a hero.   

[Arhattobe]

@Preetom I’ll try to answer all of your questions in one response.

As I said due to the conflict created due to the intellects functional need to survive through knowledge vs the inherent limitations imposed upon it. Fear is created. 

In response to fear karmic conditionings are created. Most of these karmic patterns aim to battle the primal fear that rests in the deep reecesses of our subconscious by gaining control. 

Most of unnatural cravings are based in this battle for control. Control in this context can mean. Looking good in front of others, getting a good job, becoming enlightened, pretending to know stuff, because in one’s perception each one of those examples mitigate and control the number of fearful scenarios that can arise.

Natural desires are desires that are not based in such karmic conditionings. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Arhattobe

[SageModeAustin]

@Arhattobe what if you take stimulants for ADHD, (but i'm going to be moving from adderall to modafinil because of its  synergetic effects with antidepressants) it decreases my depression and adhd

Also what if u have already looked straight into it, but it has not disappeared?

I take Zoloft and welbutrin as well for my OCD/depression/adhd, it is helping a tiny bit, but I am still very depressed every day.

I exercise three times a week, eat okay and meditate daily..there seems to be no end to this. I have tried killing myself in the past and ever since then I feel like another person stuck in this body. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by SageModeAustin

[outlandish]

@Arhattobe 

How old are you?

Do you consider yourself to be a layperson, or a monk, or how would you characterize your lifestyle?

Do you have children? 

I'm curious to learn about how involved in the tangly game of maya/samsara/life you are.

[TheAvatarState]

@Arhattobe yes, you're correct in recognizing the nuance of humor. You can say the same thing about love. Lower-consciousness love is directed at someone and is conditional. It can be warped by romanticism. However, true love (nondual), fully unconditional, is not really directed at anyone in particular, it's the emanation (release?) of something higher. It comes from a different UNDERSTANDING. One could say it's the metaphysical connection.

So along those lines of reasoning: what is humor and what is its source? I'm talking about the genuine, high consciousness smile or laughter. Why do we feel it? Am I being deluded here? I'm not content with just believing it's something we feel when we're happy... I know there's something more. So humor me.  

[Arhattobe]

@SageModeAustin I am so sorry to hear that Austin. If you ever want to talk. Let me know. It won’t help much, but I can listen if no one else does. I myself suffered from long stretches of depression and dark nights. Sorry it has to be this way.

I am not sure about the affects of stimulants and how in need of them you might or might not be so I will try to stay away from that topic. 

I will, however, say that the lessons are learned and over when dharma says it over. Not when we have had enough. Have faith. Hang in there. Wish you the best.

@outlandish 28, and I wouldn’t consider myself as either layperson or monk. Just a person committed to growing, seeing more clearly and understanding the dharma. 

In regards to my lifestyle. I am studying for my second masters degree and am currently in a relationship with a good woman who I dearly love and care for.

@TheAvatarState Sorry but I’d rather not persue this line of thinking any further. Do not think it’s productive.