I am not enlightened, but further than all that claim such a thing. Ask me anything

[Arhattobe]

I do not have a website. If you want my opinion on something ask me, and I will answer. 

[outlandish]

3 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

I do not have a website. If you want my opinion on something ask me, and I will answer. 

No website? No wonder you're not fully enlightened yet..  all the great masters have websites 

jk

[outlandish]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The Buddha wasn't talkin shit on a forum but starving himself to death in the forest.

At some point he noticed that starving yourself to death in the forest is a fruitless pursuit and he adopted the middle path, but I see what you're getting at.

It's just getting a bit silly around here with all the enlightenment signalling, which has now blossomed into full on flag waving.

[WindInTheLeaf]

6 hours ago, luckieluuke said:

Ofcourse there is problem with oversimplifying but that is what language, thought and ideas does. They take reality and put it in a box and decide this is the way it is, when in reality it´s not. But it´s the way we make sense of the world. Like saying something is Orange. There are infinite varieties of Orange but to simplify we call the Red / Yellow spectrum Orange.
In order for a first grader to understand what a math professor does we offer a simplified version. It´s not correct but it helps us work with it. If the professsor tried to explain in detail what he does the first grader wouldnt understand anything.
Similarly Buddhism says that no text is sacred or true. It´s just a tool to help you along the way and when you got the message and used the text leave it behind.
We are all at different stages on the path and for a newbie like me who don´t understand enlightenment I need a simple idea to work towards, when I get further down the road that idea has been left and replaced by a new more nuanced idea. Now I need a low resolution picture of Enlightenment and as I advance the picture will become clearer.
So for me I feel like I dont need an detailed explaination of enlightenment since Im not advanced enough to understand it. It might even me dangerous as my Ego might missunderstand it.

Newbie? You've been at it since the dawn of time my friend. Who told you that you need something to aim for to get there? The problem of texts is not that they cannot be of help, but rather that you tend to cling to them when they are no longer of any use, and confuse the appearance of truth for truth. While you are working towards something you are missing the lessons right here now.

You believe you need an idea of enlightenment for you to aim for, but what if that idea is what keeps you in darkness? What if that idea of enlightenment is merely the ego making you go round and round while you believe to be going forward, as it needs to do so to stay alive. I say empty your cup of muddy water instead of trying to turn it clear by some kind of magic you believe to be out there somewhere.

And the more of a 'newb' you are to stillness (aka the more restless you are in mind body and spirit), the less you can trust your beliefs. So how do you wish to tell apart, by your reasoning, what is right and what is wrong, which steps that leads you towards light and which into darkness? If instead of trying to get to some place you believe to be the place to be, to some kind of way of being you believe to be the right way of being, you just start acting truthfully, and turn your attention to the pain rather than away from it, and inquire into your habits of now, goals of future and mistakes of past, you'll be led much quicker down the road of enlightenment.

Just start being truthful, while at the same time untangling whatever trauma might be lying in your past (you let go of any and all regrets as you see them clearly and accept any and all suffering as you see how it helped you grow). You'll then enact truth, while getting rid of any lies you might have been telling yourself. You'll rid yourself of deceitful habits while replacing them with ones of harmony. You'll rid yourself of any and all regrets as pains of past are being re-integrated into a stronger, more honest you.

Sure you can, along the way, find guidance here and there, but be careful about idolization of certain teachings and ways of being. You have to realize that any belief-system you might attempt to follow to get anywhere, is seen through the restless waters that is your mind. The more unrest, the more you will misinterpret the words of whomever you choose to follow. Teachers can point you in the right direction, if they are indeed teachers and not just appearing to be, and to distinguish between true teachers and false ones just listen to your intuition. The worst teachers and best trixters are to be found amongst men, so don't just blindly follow someone appearing to know the way. Don't accept what you do not feel is true. Trust yourself, you are right where you need to be.

[Hellspeed]

On 04.12.2018 at 1:12 AM, Arhattobe said:

Enlightenment. Spirituality. Both are misunderstood things. Being in a constant mystical state. Becoming aware of a dimension of life beyond the sense. Both are nowadays synonymous with enlightenment.

I myself awakened more than a few years ago, and when I was stable in that new state that then was beyond my reference point and understanding. 

When my insights and teachings of teachers matched up I thought. 

Yes. I’m there. 

Then like most other teachers and people who awakened. I played a multitude of mind games, and escapist tactics to pretend like I’m a Buddha. 

After a multitude of extreme shifts afterwards. I became aware that life, reality and dharma had much more to teach than a simple “recognition”. 

& even that recognition varies. Ramana Maharshi, and a random guy who awakens on here might both become aware of an aspect of life, but their degree of “understanding” is extremely different.

I’ll use an example. Let’s take a concept like love. A child that loves his mom, and a 50 year old with grown child have different understandings of love. Nuanced, more subtle yet much deeper perspective exists in ramana.

In fact Ramana himself isn’t fully enlightened, but my reasoning for that, and the fact itself are irrelevant and will cause nothing but a series of pointless arguments. I said it just to catch your attention a bit lol.

I know more than you. Make use of me. I’m here to help. Ask me anything

 

Do you know how to heal your body/mind and others? Using the technology we all have in us? 

[Arhattobe]

@Hellspeed ?

[kieranperez]

This is like telling every nba player who isn’t as good as Michael Jordan they’re not a true basketball player. This is a fucking fantasy hunt.

Who the hell is this perfect person that you speak of? You don’t know Ramana Maharshi. He had no audios that we can hear about or books he himself had written. All notions of these historical legends of enlightened persons are all different. Enlightened people don’t need to fit into some fantastatical set character and set of behaviors. You don’t know ANY of these people these people so any notion of them is still all a story you concoct. The better way to tell these people’s degree of attainment (but not holding them on this pedestal of how they reached the end) is what they did with their life.

Mastery is merely and only a principle. It’s not some set place you end up. A basketball player whose 6’2 and 180 pounds is going to have a much different reflection of mastery than Michael Jordan because they’re different people with different genetics and skills. This is true in sports, spirituality, cooking, doesn’t matter. This a shallow and fantastical misunderstanding of what mastery in anything really is. 

[Mu_]

@Arhattobe

I have a few questions on the personal level.

1.  What makes you feel qualified to speak about enlightenment or waking up?

2.  What was the event that gave you the reason to go oh now I know enough?

3.  What is it exactly that you want others to understand, and why?

[Hellspeed]

6 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Hellspeed ?

You know how to heal, influence healing of any condition and desease?

Have you been in any human being alive, or death and beyond, have you felt or seen the experiences of entire humanity, meaning that you have transcended the mind and seen the whole truth of the universe?

This is my experience, as an awakened human being wich i'm on my journey and always growing.

 

What is your experience?

 

 

 

[Arhattobe]

@Mu_ I hope you don’t mind but I’ll kind of skip your first two questions. Engaging them won’t be productive regardless of what my reply will be. 

In regards to your third question. I want people to understand that a lack of nuance, genuineness, self honesty and self awareness may lead to darker holes than some crawled out of. It can be very damaging. Pre and post awakening.

Also sharing what I know and my perspective so people can have a nuanced and healthy perspective instead of a dogmatic, escapist one.

 

@Hellspeed Sorry, but can you be more clear.

If your asking me if I can’t heal any disease. The answer is no.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Arhattobe

[Hellspeed]

7 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Mu_ I hope you don’t mind but I’ll kind of skip your first two questions. Engaging them won’t be productive regardless of what my reply will be. 

In regards to your third question. I want people to understand that a lack of nuance, genuineness, self honesty and self awareness may lead to darker holes than some crawled out of. It can be very damaging. Pre and post awakening.

Also sharing what I know and my perspective so people can have a nuanced and healthy perspective instead of a dogmatic, escapist one.

 

@Hellspeed Sorry, but can you be more clear.

If your asking me if I can’t heal any disease. The answer is no.

I justed wanted to verify if you are a genuine awakened human being. If you can't heal you are egoic.

I say this because we don't need more confusion in the forum.

Namaste

Edited December 5, 2018 by Hellspeed

[kieranperez]

19 hours ago, outlandish said:

We're not talking about Gautama Buddha 2600 years later (or whatever) because he made it part way there.

Lol when your definition of enlightenment excludes The Buddha ??? LOL WHAT? Okay this is just a joke now. 

 

8 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

 

I’ll mention a few people above him. 

 

Lol how are you even measuring this? Only by arbitrary constructs. As though you know Sadhguru’s realization and all these other people. 

[Mu_]

31 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Mu_ I hope you don’t mind but I’ll kind of skip your first two questions. Engaging them won’t be productive regardless of what my reply will be. 

In regards to your third question. I want people to understand that a lack of nuance, genuineness, self honesty and self awareness may lead to darker holes than some crawled out of. It can be very damaging. Pre and post awakening.

Also sharing what I know and my perspective so people can have a nuanced and healthy perspective instead of a dogmatic, escapist one.

 

@Hellspeed Sorry, but can you be more clear.

If your asking me if I can’t heal any disease. The answer is no.

Thanks for your answer.  My first question I think is very relevant, but the second may be non-usefull, but if you dont want to answer thats fine.

New question: 

What guide post or guide lines do you have for pointing someone towards gaining "usefull" nuance, genuineness, self honesty and awareness.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Mu_

[Arhattobe]

@Mu_ Sorry, but can you reiterate what your question is in a more clear manner.

Your questions aren’t connected and I’m not sure which one to respond to.

[Mafortu]

I clicked expecting to cringe, but this is perhaps the most valuable thread in years here. Unlike others in the path, I sense no delusion in your words.

Thanks for sharing your insights with us.

[RichardY]

 

Not much idea about Buddhism or Jainism. But, at least according to wikipedia, buddhism is focused more on Maya where as Jainism involves habit. I think Jainism makes more sense. Potentially a more powerful metaphysic.

 

Quote

Karma
The Jain theory of Karma has been challenged from an early time by the Vedanta and Sāṃkhya branches of Hindu philosophy. In particular, Vedanta Hindus considered the Jain position on the supremacy and potency of karma, specifically its insistence on non-intervention by any Supreme Being in regard to the fate of souls, as nāstika or atheistic.[1] For example, in a commentary to the Brahma Sutras (III, 2, 38, and 41), Adi Sankara, argues that the original karmic actions themselves cannot bring about the proper results at some future time; neither can super sensuous, non-intelligent qualities like adrsta—an unseen force being the metaphysical link between work and its result—by themselves mediate the appropriate, justly deserved pleasure and pain. The fruits, according to him, then, must be administered through the action of a conscious agent, namely, a supreme being (Ishvara).[2][note 1]

Jainism's strong emphasis on the doctrine of karma and intense asceticism was also criticised by the Buddhists. Thus, the Saṃyutta Nikāya narrates the story of Asibandhakaputta, a headman who was originally a disciple of Māhavīra. He debates with the Buddha, telling him that, according to Māhavīra (Nigaṇṭha Nātaputta), a man's fate or karma is decided by what he does habitually. The Buddha responds, considering this view to be inadequate, stating that even a habitual sinner spends more time "not doing the sin" and only some time actually "doing the sin."[3]

In another Buddhist text Majjhima Nikāya, the Buddha criticizes Jain emphasis on the destruction of unobservable and unverifiable types of karma as a means to end suffering, rather than on eliminating evil mental states such as greed, hatred and delusion, which are observable and verifiable.[4] Buddha also criticises the Jain ascetic practice of various austerities, claiming that he, Buddha, is happier when not practising the austerities.[5][note 2]

 

[Arhattobe]

@Mafortu <3

[SOUL]

10 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I'm not surprised that I haven't even bothered to chime in on this debate.

Was that a chime I heard?

9 hours ago, Annoynymous said:

@Leo Gura if enlightenment doesnt make me developed,  why pursue enlightenment?

If  development and enlightenment both necessary, which one to pursue first?    

Very insightful questions, I'm surprised nobody has taken the time to reply.

Neither are "necessary", we can live our whole life undeveloped and self suffering....very many do.

Development is cultivating one's life as pertaining to the circumstances of life in both the inner and outer realm.

Liberation is cessation of self suffering.

A person can develop one's life to a degree that they attain everything they ever wanted yet still self suffer and not be at peace.

A person can liberate from self suffering and never develop their life even one bit yet still be at peace and fulfilled.

Of course if a person is liberated from self suffering and is developing one's life they can be at peace and fulfilled at every step of the way even if their efforts to develop it are never fully realized.

Both of these can be simultaneously pursued.

Does that bring any clarity?

[outlandish]

34 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Lol when your definition of enlightenment excludes The Buddha ??? LOL WHAT? Okay this is just a joke now. 

No I didn't exclude the buddha, you've misinterpreted me. What I said is that we're not talking about him 2600 years later because he got part way there. As in: we are talking about him 2600 years later because he made it all the way.

Actually, we're talking about him because he transmitted his awakening effectively.

[Mu_]

39 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Mu_ Sorry, but can you reiterate what your question is in a more clear manner.

Your questions aren’t connected and I’m not sure which one to respond to.

1.  What guide post or guide lines do you have for pointing someone towards gaining useful nuance, genuineness, self honesty and awareness.

2.  What makes you feel qualified to speak about enlightenment or waking up?

 

I ask 2. since we seem to have exact realizations about enlightenment and its interpretations along with the dangers of not dealing with fetters/karma/ego/things that cause suffering.

I first studied under Anderew Cohen who was big into accountability (sadly/funny enough his ego got the better of him and brought down his community), and this had a serious impression on me.  Then like Leo is sharing, such ideals unconscious to me created a perfectionist state and a goal that may be impossible (i was not aware of this at the time). Down the road I spent a few years of following/letting in nonduality teachings of Paul Hedderman, Lisa Cairns, Papaji, Rupert Spira and some of Alana Watts, I let in the idea of nondoer ship and the recognition that all experience arises and is out of our hands no matter how real the "I" free will feeling, belief seems.  This was profoundly healing and freeing and perhaps didn't create a egomaniac monster since I first started with accountability and not causing suffering to self and others as a prime principle.

However I had two profoundly paradoxical understandings abiding in this shell of being.  That seemed to have merged on a understanding level along with a direct recognition and understanding of who and what we all are.....god/infinity/oneness

Along with this has come freedom and understanding.  There is never not god, everything, matter, energy, thoughts, feelings, experience, the capacity for such things for thoughts to be able to happen, feelings to happen, experience to be possible, wisdom, all experiences of what realizers call waking up, all are god, and none of them are themselves the full picture of infinity, but are infinity none the less.

Now comes some of the odd pills of truth along with this.  I'm god, with all my ideas, views, beliefs, spiritual practices and disciplines that bring equanimity and fruits, such as dont rage at someone or I'll experience the flood of chemicals, pain that it may cause others, and self discomfort from my chosen action.  Theres the experience of doing and being done, non action, arisal, no knowledge of where thoughts creativity, ideas arise from, the mystery.  Knowing all of me is the creation of my original face.

Theres also a very real understanding of why guru's do what they do and feel fine with it, like sleep with a student, harshly discipline out of supposed benefit of student, and any number of culty things out there.  This freedom that comes from waking up seems to reveal that there is no actual moral barometer out there enforcing anything on anyone, almost the opposite, a unconditional love accepting and understanding all as Self/Love.  What you and I call karma and fetters is another form of god/play of lila/maya, how could Self ever get anything wrong or cause itself any harm, and yet paradoxically Self is always consuming Self and causing Self pain somewhere in its infinity all the time.

As Self it seems like whats done with this individual incarnation is self+Self creating Self in the mystery of itsSelf.

What are your thoughts on Self consuming Self, never not Self, the relationship of Self and "right" action.

And again I asked 2. to see what makes you in particular feel like your ready to teach and out of curiosity what was that turning point.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Mu_