I am not enlightened, but further than all that claim such a thing. Ask me anything

[Arhattobe]

Enlightenment. Spirituality. Both are misunderstood things. Being in a constant mystical state. Becoming aware of a dimension of life beyond the sense. Both are nowadays synonymous with enlightenment.

I myself awakened more than a few years ago, and when I was stable in that new state that then was beyond my reference point and understanding. 

When my insights and teachings of teachers matched up I thought. 

Yes. I’m there. 

Then like most other teachers and people who awakened. I played a multitude of mind games, and escapist tactics to pretend like I’m a Buddha. 

After a multitude of extreme shifts afterwards. I became aware that life, reality and dharma had much more to teach than a simple “recognition”. 

& even that recognition varies. Ramana Maharshi, and a random guy who awakens on here might both become aware of an aspect of life, but their degree of “understanding” is extremely different.

I’ll use an example. Let’s take a concept like love. A child that loves his mom, and a 50 year old with grown child have different understandings of love. Nuanced, more subtle yet much deeper perspective exists in ramana.

In fact Ramana himself isn’t fully enlightened, but my reasoning for that, and the fact itself are irrelevant and will cause nothing but a series of pointless arguments. I said it just to catch your attention a bit lol.

I know more than you. Make use of me. I’m here to help. Ask me anything

 

[ShugendoRa]

Is non dulaity is total elimination of duality. Where does your mind body senses thoughts go to? 

[Arhattobe]

That question requires a nuanced response. Here is the best I can do:

Theravada Buddhism is by far the most advanced teaching in existence. 

Ill use it to make my point and respond to you.

In Theravada Buddhism. There are 4 categories of awakeness. Stream entry, once returner, non returner, and arhatship.

Even thought that’s a gross oversimplification,  we will go with that map for the sake of this response.

In said map, asides from arhats. Every one who falls under these stages will still have what the Buddhists call fetters.

What are fetters? They are the tendencies and karmic patterns that are deeply ingrained into our systems, and take lifetimes to clear.

 A mere recognition of “self” will not magically make them disappear. 

I’ll explaim what karma is in another thread , but let me use some real life examples of people in non duality to make my case:

Eg maharishi mahesh yogi and muktananda. Widely regarded by the non dual community to be in high stages of enlightenment. Had obvious fetters and obvious issues. They were both also accused of and engaged in sexual misconduct. 

UGs keishnamurtis video on his deathbed. The non dual teacher Francis Bennet who years after awakening decided he is a transsexual. These were just a few people I thought of off the top of my head.

Same was true in my own experience. A massive release combined with the deep desire to escape is what makes non dual teachers deny every fetter and issue that they have. To dismiss their karma as just “mind”. Sadly it’s also why they don’t get that far.

In summary No. Not the kind of non duality we are speaking of here at least. Only a Buddha could claim such a thing, and so far in my life I’ve seen none. 

[isabel]

is there an individual soul? 

[Blissout]

Are you still suffering and are in permanent peace?

 

If NOT you are not enlightened and you still got work to do.

[Arhattobe]

Due to the concept of “Anatta” (noself), non dual insights and states many claim that individuality is just an illusion. 

This is due to half baked insights, and a need for escapism that makes non dual teachers deny their individuality and the plethora of issues that they still have.

You can be in a state of non duality and have an empty or calm mind, but the mind or thought level is only the surface level of your system. Many, many layers that churn beneath. That dictate your level of empathy, understanding, and behaviour can still have extreme amounts of karmic gunk.

I refer again to the behaviour of these so called enlightened beings. None act in an enlightened manner. Simply because they are not. They are people. In non dual states. That’s it.

In regards to your question. There is no soul, but as long as a bit of karma remains in you, you are absolutely an individual. You can be an individual that thinks he is not an individual. In a non dual state, but regardless. Still an individual.

 

 

[isabel]

thank you

 

[purerogue]

5 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

Due to the concept of “Anatta” (noself), non dual insights and states many claim that individuality is just an illusion. 

This is due to half baked insights, and a need for escapism that makes non dual teachers deny their individuality and the plethora of issues that they still have.

You can be in a state of non duality and have an empty or calm mind, but the mind or thought level is only the surface level of your system. Many, many layers that churn beneath. That dictate your level of empathy, understanding, and behaviour can still have extreme amounts of karmic gunk.

I refer again to the behaviour of these so called enlightened beings. None act in an enlightened manner. Simply because they are not. They are people. In non dual states. That’s it.

In regards to your question. There is no soul, but as long as a bit of karma remains in you, you are absolutely an individual. You can be an individual that thinks he is not an individual. In a non dual state, but regardless. Still an individual.

 

 

I like your explanations. they feel closer to my beliefs

[Arhattobe]

Here are a list of people who are in non dual states: regarded to be highly enlightened by most.

Shinzen Young’s teacher : known to be gropy, and molest women. Shinzen reportedly called him a master’s master. In reality the man is a monk in a non dual state with issues too numerous to count. The average person is aware of their issues but men like him dismiss it with fantastical non dual talk backed up by their experience. 

Maharshi Mahesh Yogi : At worst engaged in the molestation of women that came to him looking for spiritual progress. At best (if you don’t believe the accusations) preached celibacy and engaged in sexual activities with many behind the scenes.

Muktananda : Accused of molesting a girl as young as 13. 

UG Krishnamurti : An overall dick. Lacking in empathy and overall hateful and angry individual. Until his dying breath. 

Francis Bennet : Realized there is no self when he stable entered a non dual state, but then subsequently became a transsexual. 

Asides from these gross examples. Every teacher you look towards. Most are in deep denial of reality.

Reality is not “perfect.” Suffering is by no means an “illusion”, to even suggest such things one shows the extreme naivety and lack of clarity that these teachers have.

Having said that ones dharma, and the suffering we go through helps us grow, and get closer and closer towards the goal.

[tsuki]

@Arhattobe Please explain what enlightenment means to you.

[Arhattobe]

There are vastly different states of being. One can experience life like a sociopath, a psychopath, a schizophrenic, a regular person, a good person, a person in a non dual state. 

The difference between these states is extremely real, and extremely vast.

Every layer in ones system, emotions, layers that give birth to emotion. Thoughts, layers that give birth to thought. Decision making apparatus, layers that lead to decision making. And numerous layers not mentioned all come together to create your experience.

In most mystical states, non dual people look at the surface layer of themselves. Let’s say thought layer. Think to themselves it’s kind of empty, and completely ignore the underlying layers of karma. 

Enlightenment to me is not non dual experience. Non dual understanding. Regardless of how deep it might be. It’s the complete eradication of all those layers.

Complete zero. 

I currently am and have been for a long time in a non dual state, mostly in a thoughtless state as well. I can’t really think. Haven’t been able to for months. Although I have periods of release in which mind activity or thought activity become active. This, however, is far, far away from what I am referring to.

Complete zero is not something most can fathom. Most can not even see how much garbage lays in the underlying levels of their experience. Rightfully so. They have no other reference point. 

In comparison to tsunami, huge waves might seem serene. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Arhattobe

[purerogue]

If there is no time, does that mean that Consciousness is stuck in endless loop, or there is moment that is ever changing? 

[isabel]

when you say you are unable to think, what does it mean for your life? do you have money and are you able to keep a job, etc?

thank you

[outlandish]

Thank you.

38 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

I currently am and have been for a long time in a non dual state, mostly in a thoughtless state as well. I can’t really think. Haven’t been able to for months. Although I have period of release in which mind activity or thouht activity becomes active. This, however, is far, far away from what I am referring to.

Does being in this persistent non dual, non-thinking state compromise your ability to perform the day to day tasks which require discrimination? Do these things happen "automatically" perhaps taken care of by now lower levels of mind where your conscious awareness no longer resides?

Are you considered sane and functional by the people around you? Are you a layperson?

[Arhattobe]

@isabel Absolutely. Like I said gross thought and image based thinking are surface layers in your system.

I can still learn and function just fine. Information is  recurved, retained and is called up when necessary. It’s just not actively thought of. No internal monologue.

I can’t really explain how it’s like.

I have been extremely disfunctional during certain “dark nights of the soul”, however. 

@purerogue

The existence or the lack of existence of time aren’t very relevant to one’s path, life, and dharma.

More importantly the lack of existence of time. Does not mean what you think it means.

Unless your fully enlightened or at least in a high non dual state. Your view and scope are too limited (due to the degree of karma) and reality is seen in too much of a black and white fashion for you to even begin to understand such things.

You see life through a binary lens, but in reality. Reality has much more nuance and depth than that, and is neither black nor white (in a sense.)

Let me give an example.

It’s kind of like this. Let’s say a scientist explains that the universe is infinite to a child. 

The child might then ask how many meters infinity is? how long would it take to traverse the infinite universe?

The scientist can explain infinity as much as he wants to the child, but due to his limited perception and way of thinking the child will only hear that the universe is really big.

At best really really big.

Our mind naturally break down information to make it digestible and understandable to us. In this case whatever answer is given to you. If it is truth. Won’t be reflective of the reality.

So why bother. Focus on more practical aspects of the path. Or ponder than which you can understand, and that which the understanding of will help your spiritual progress. This will not.

 

Having said all that. I’ll answer your question anyway lol. Time exists within existence. Within mind. Mind and existence and consciousness are one and the same.

Time does not exist where mind/existence does not exist, however. 

[Arhattobe]

@outlandish Yes. I definitely am considered sane and perfectly functionable. Answered your other questions in my previous reply. 

In general the lack of stability comes from extreme experiences that normally occur in earlier states, before one stabalizes, when one is “shifting” to a higher state, or during dark nights of the soul. 

The further you go though, and the higher you get to. The less these things will affect you and be a factor. Ones stability grows exponentially. As you reach higher and higher non dual states.

[purerogue]

Well my question was because I am confused about existence, does consciousness have any saying on how events will turn out to be, or it has all already happened so it can't be changed , I understand  of possibility of infinite possibilities, but it still does not answer my question of whatever Consciousness can really do anything , because it has already done everything. 

[Arhattobe]

@purerogue Your worries, concerns and the reason you are asking the question are all based in fantastical thought that lack substance and true reflection. Forget such lines of thinking. If I give you the answer. How would it change you life?

In regards to consciousness. Consciousness, existence and mind are one. Different aspects of the same thing. The same thing really.

& all are purposeful. Infinity does not mean a lack of purpose or direction. The numerical system is infinite. 

Yet apples are not a part of the numerical system, because it’s designed, with order and is purposeful. 

In the same manner. Life is purposeful. Not random.

[purerogue]

6 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@purerogue Your worries, concerns and the reason you are asking the question are all based in fantastical thought that lack substance and true reflection. Forget such lines of thinking. If I give you the answer. How would it change you life?

In regards to consciousness. Consciousness, existence and mind are one. Different aspects of the same thing. The same thing really.

& all are purposeful. Infinity does not mean a lack of purpose or direction. The numerical system is infinite. 

Yet apples are not a part of the numerical system, because it’s designed, with order and is purposeful. 

In the same manner. Life is purposeful. Not random.

I did not say that story has no purpose, but it is still just as story that is already written, isn't it so , or what are you getting at? 

[Arhattobe]

A story?

 To reduce life. Reality. Every life. Every piece of suffering. Every person growing and walking towards th right direction as a “story”. 

Is a deep shame. Born out of nihilistic non dual escapist delusion.