Fear of psychedelics

[fewrocker]

Hi guys!

 

I think psychedelics would be a huge next step on my journey. 

 

I am a very chill person 95% of the time, and I have amazing trips every time I smoke weed - amazing spiritual trips, actually. However, I know that weed scratches the surface in this case, and I need something deeper. I've also been meditating for more than 9 months every day without skipping a day for at least 20 mins.

 

However, 3 years ago, I had an experience of a huge bad trip smoking weed. Every time I smoked it was amazing and I really never felt anxiety in my life. I believe I have a condition in which I actually can't feel anxiety. However, that day, I had a huge panic attack so it was quite shocking because I never felt anything like that before. It was a traumatic experience and after that some anxious thoughts appeared.

 

Because of that experience, there is a small 5% fear inside of me that if I do psychedelics, the bad trip could be even stronger, and I might not fully recover from it (I know that is kind of the idea, because the bad trip might be a result of the ego being deconstructed). However, this 5% fear is still the only thing between be and starting experimenting with psychedelics. I have this feeling like I have 99 reasons to have an amazing self-discovery trip, but 1 reason that might bring me to a shitty experience, but still that 1 reason is enough to hold me back. Do I just push it and everything will be ok?

 

Any words of advice? 

[Forestluv]

Start small and work your way up. Have a benzo handy in case things get too intense for you.

[cetus]

14 minutes ago, fewrocker said:

I believe I have a condition in which I actually can't feel anxiety. However, that day, I had a huge panic attack so it was quite shocking because I never felt anything like that before.

@fewrocker Don't kid yourself. Do the shadow work first while your in control. Search honestly in every nook and cranny. When was the last time you allowed yourself to have a good cry?

[Leo Gura]

Psychedelics will cause bad trips. This is guaranteed if you do them enough times.

The key is it doesn't matter. A "bad trip" is just part of the growth process.

[fewrocker]

@Serotoninluv Cool. My plan is to start with 2cb low dosages, because it is one of the first psychedelics in the pyramid. One step at a time. I guess the benzos will give me peace of mind, too. Simple and good stuff

 

@cetus56  It is somehow funny because a part from that single episode of breakdown, I don't see much shadow at all. I am sure there is a lot of shadow hidden, like in all of us. But deep down I'm truly cool. I would cry if I had the urge to, I would't hold it back. But I'm mostly filled with bliss, I have way more presence than the "average person" and I can see the beauty of it all. However, there is the 5% monster lurking around, I feel it

 

@Leo Gura I am open to the bad trips. I am open to the power they have of facing the ego. I am aware that bad trips are mostly motivated by the ego screaming for survival, afraid that the house-of-cards illusion will be broken. Still, I can't say for granted that it is impossible for me to have an episode which will send my spiraling down to low consciousness. And people in insane asylums can't do self-actualization. I guess the chances of that happening to me are like 1%, but I just wanted to have the peace of mind that it was actually impossible before using.  I would be ok with bad trips, if only it wasn't possible for one of them to end my consciousness path

 

 

[SgtPepper]

Weed is very different than other psychedelics tho. 

Paranoia plays out different on weed vs LSD/mushrooms. 

Weed is hazier and as a result its easier to fool yourself in my experience. Something like LSD is a lot cleaner and the clarity stops the paranoia in the first place.

As @Serotoninluv said, start small.

[Leo Gura]

Psychedelics are not for cowards.

[fewrocker]

@SgtPepper Interesting. My paranoia on the weed bad trip was hugely because I didn't feel anxiety before and suddenly I felt a very strong form of it. Something I didn't understand or couldn't control. But I'm much more aware now. I believe I would be good at tapping into the clarity you are speaking about. Good words

 

@Leo Gura Powerful words. I believe I get what you are trying to say/do.  You are trying to challenge my ego into doing it so I can finally grasp what I am missing and lose the fear (if it doesn't have to do with that, my bad). Right now the strength of my presence and consciousness to use it is way stronger than my fear, so it will probably happen sooner rather than later. However, the peace of mind of hearing from more experienced users about how to deconstruct the fear could still help. I will keep reading some trip reports and get more info about it 

[Charlotte]

@Serotoninluv Do benozos actually work?

[Charlotte]

@fewrocker I literally could of wrote this thread... Word for word.

Investigate your fear until you can literally love your fear to the death.

Wise words from @cetus56

58 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

Do the shadow work first while your in control. Search honestly in every nook and cranny.

 

?

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

@Serotoninluv Do benozos actually work?

I've never actually taken one on a trip. Yet, just having a benzo handy and knowing I could sedate the trip helped reduce anxiety and increase confidence. A big part of my anxiety/panic was the sense that I can't make it stop.

As I got more experience, I forgot about them. It's an ego "safety net" to maintain some sense of control. I think it was fine in the early stages as I transitioned. Yet, then I needed to let go of the safety net. 

[fewrocker]

@Charlotte They weaken the anxious thoughts and experiences. For that, they work. They even make you sleepy so maybe you can just sleep it off. Just not a good idea to make constant use of them like doctors love to prescribe. It numbs you down, takes away your energy and it can become really, really hard to stop taking them. Also, if every time you feel anxious you pop one, you will feel you need them, when in fact you can work on anxiety a lot with just consciousness. Nowadays, when I feel anxiety, 20 mins of meditation on it are usually enough. 

 

However, having the benzos as a punctual possibility for the day of the trip sounds like a good idea

[lostmedstudent]

i know that weed increases one's risks of developing schizophrenia, but i dont think psychedelics do, so even if you have a bad trip, tell yourself that you won't go crazy and you wont end at in an insane asylum like you said. 

[zambize]

I had bad weed anxiety after some synthetic weed almost killed me, could barely smoke with my friends for a year, or at least didn't enjoy it.  I did shrooms in the middle of this, and I had the same worries but my body for whatever reason accepted the drug really well and accepted the head space it puts you into.  Since then I've kind of fallen in love with psychedelics.  I don't see any reason you have to go balls deep, even a half tab of acid will likely give you good insights into how your mind works.  It will also push you out and cause you to merge a bit more with reality, making it a really good time to practice self-inquiry techniques, one Leo recommended is looking at your hand and just asking "what is existence"/"who am I" etc... Try a half tab if you're worried, see what you think from there, if you aren't worried, I'm sure you could handle a full 100 micrograms or more, but I think you can use your intuition, would recommend 100% though

[robdl]

1 hour ago, fewrocker said:

Hi guys!

 

I think psychedelics would be a huge next step on my journey. 

 

I am a very chill person 95% of the time, and I have amazing trips every time I smoke weed - amazing spiritual trips, actually. However, I know that weed scratches the surface in this case, and I need something deeper. I've also been meditating for more than 9 months every day without skipping a day for at least 20 mins.

 

However, 3 years ago, I had an experience of a huge bad trip smoking weed. Every time I smoked it was amazing and I really never felt anxiety in my life. I believe I have a condition in which I actually can't feel anxiety. However, that day, I had a huge panic attack so it was quite shocking because I never felt anything like that before. It was a traumatic experience and after that some anxious thoughts appeared.

 

Because of that experience, there is a small 5% fear inside of me that if I do psychedelics, the bad trip could be even stronger, and I might not fully recover from it (I know that is kind of the idea, because the bad trip might be a result of the ego being deconstructed). However, this 5% fear is still the only thing between be and starting experimenting with psychedelics. I have this feeling like I have 99 reasons to have an amazing self-discovery trip, but 1 reason that might bring me to a shitty experience, but still that 1 reason is enough to hold me back. Do I just push it and everything will be ok?

 

Any words of advice? 

 

Thought is very sneaky.  And so fear therefore is, too.  As thought and fear are one and the same.

Thought pretends that there is a "thinker" of thoughts; pretends that there is an "I" that is subject to all thoughts.  Fear, naturally, pretends that there is a fearful entity ("I") apart from its "fear"; an entity which is subject to fear.

The division between thinker and thoughts, or the division between fearful entity and fear, is what reinforces the thought/fear.  Duality in operation.

Essentially, thought/fear feeds itself by creating an I-entity/self that is apart from "its" fear.  As mentioned, this division nourishes-reinforces the thinking/fearing.

So look at fear as a kind of trick that ego-mind is playing on itself to self-sustain.

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by robdl

[fewrocker]

@robdl Yep, it makes a lot of sense. I can actually see that I am in a fear loop but deep down fear is illusory. The loop goes like this

 

I want to do psychedelics > But I've had a bad trip and that scares me > I don't want to have a bad trip that might make me completely unconscious and unable to do SA work anymore > Fear is an illusion and I should know that deep down it will be ok > I want to do psychedelics

 

The ego is smart. It is using my own desire to continue to self-actualize to prevent the psychedelics from happening. It is like it is letting me do a "lesser evil" so I don't do the more powerful one that can kill it easier. But the fear still remains, since I believe that there is a possibility that in fact shit can happen

 

Thanks guys. Just being in this discussion makes me see the egoic patterns with more clarity

[andyjohnsonman]

When i was younger I used to smoke weed and get panic attacks which led me to stop smoking for a while too. After a daily meditation practice and understanding of the ego and the realisation that thoughts are illusory and will all pass it has made me have a much better time on them. I have also taken mushrooms a few times and i feel meditation has really helped me get past even the roughest of trip so i think you should be ok.

[zambize]

17 minutes ago, robdl said:

 

Thought is very sneaky.  And so fear therefore is, too.  As thought and fear are one and the same.

Thought pretends that there is a "thinker" of thoughts; pretends that there is an "I" that is subject to all thoughts.  Fear, naturally, pretends that there is a fearful entity ("I") apart from its "fear"; an entity which is subject to fear.

The division between thinker and thoughts, or the division between fearful entity and fear, is what reinforces the thought/fear.  Duality in operation.

Essentially, thought/fear feeds itself by creating an I-entity/self that is apart from "its" fear.  As mentioned, this division nourishes-reinforces the thinking/fearing.

So look at fear as a kind of trick that ego-mind is playing on itself to self-sustain.

 

 

 

That's a really good description of why when you're afraid and you ask yourself who is afraid, the fear tends to dissolve after that, at least from my experience 

[robdl]

Just now, zambize said:

That's a really good description of why when you're afraid and you ask yourself who is afraid, the fear tends to dissolve after that, at least from my experience 

Yeah, fear thrives under inattention.  With attention, it can disappear.

[robdl]

 

1 hour ago, fewrocker said:

@robdl Yep, it makes a lot of sense. I can actually see that I am in a fear loop but deep down fear is illusory. The loop goes like this

 

I want to do psychedelics > But I've had a bad trip and that scares me > I don't want to have a bad trip that might make me completely unconscious and unable to do SA work anymore > Fear is an illusion and I should know that deep down it will be ok > I want to do psychedelics

 

The ego is smart. It is using my own desire to continue to self-actualize to prevent the psychedelics from happening. It is like it is letting me do a "lesser evil" so I don't do the more powerful one that can kill it easier. But the fear still remains, since I believe that there is a possibility that in fact shit can happen

 

Thanks guys. Just being in this discussion makes me see the egoic patterns with more clarity

Thought is always recalling the past, or projecting the future.  Notice how psychological fear works in the exact same way?  And desire too?  As they should, since they're just thought, after all. Then you end up getting a self-reacting loop of desires and fears, breeding one another.  So is there anything special about desire or fear? Or does the ego just love desire/fear because they elicit the strongest attachment-clinging-reaction, and therefore best serve the ego's function to self-perpetuate?

Edited December 3, 2018 by robdl