How is wisdom transferred?

[SOUL]

3 minutes ago, Jack River said:

You were caught at recondition the ego to make it “healthy”. You can’t run from that statement. You can edit it I guess though 

Your ego believes you "caught" something...... you did, yourself. You choose to believe that it's "unhealthy" and for you it is because you believe it to be true.

3 minutes ago, Jack River said:

But you claim to recondition it? To control it? We just simply expressed that falsity.

You believe it to be a falsity, so it is false for you, not anyone else.

It isn't "control", that's your word from your conditioning you are applying to me.

I'll explain it simply for you. I behave inwardly and outwardly in a certain way, this experience becomes remembrance that the ego recalls. With enough consistent behavior in this way that becomes the identity the ego identifies with and a reflexive impulse of it so when I behave this way in the present moment the ego is in union with it, not hindering it.  So I don't control the ego, it just agrees with my present moment expression.

It's like learning a new skill, it's how the monkey mind gets trained, it's not rocket surgery... it's neuroscience! It's called neuro-plasticity.

We can cease self induced suffering through this process.... well, if you choose to but you can do whatever you prefer.

Hah

[robdl]

I honestly don't have the intellectual capacity to "conceptualize" ego/thought's movement to the level that people may allege, even if I wanted to.  That's what so funny to me .    Because it's not coming from intellect.  Intellect may shine and polish the wording communication of it, but the source is not intellect.

Edited December 6, 2018 by robdl

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

You believe it to be a falsity, so it is false for you, not anyone else.

It isn't "control", that's your word from your conditioning you are applying to me.

Dude common who you kidding heh lol 

2 minutes ago, SOUL said:

We can cease self induced suffering through this process.

Haha dude.. process to end suffering. 

You got some work to do brah. Don’t bother arguing about it. Go into yourself man. 

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, robdl said:

I honestly don't have the intellectual capacity to "conceptualize" ego/thought's movement to the level that people may allege, even if I wanted to.  That's what so funny to me .    Because it's not coming from intellect.  Intellect may shine and polish the wording communication of it, but the source is not intellect.

Me either man. Haha its just so clear to mind that doesn’t escape the fact. 

You know I’m amazed at how many “enlightened beings” can’t see what-is. They claim to see THE BIG WHAT IS, but seem to not even see the condition/illusory what-is. It’s quite entertaining and sad actually. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

12 minutes ago, robdl said:

 

These aren't "my" beliefs, opinions, knowledge.  These are the facts of ego's/thought's operation that anyone may be able to see for themselves, entirely independent of whatever I have to say about it.

You are welcome to believe anything you like, even that you aren't believing this and that those beliefs are facts. Ego has you fooled into believing this conceptual paradigm to satisfy it's desire.....haha, yea that sneaky ego.

[Jack River]

It’s right in plain sight dudes...look!!! 

[Nahm]

30 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

When you think you've fooled the devil, in fact you were the one being fooled.

Wise words ??

Once home, everyone else had been there all along. 

[SOUL]

4 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Dude common who you kidding heh lol 

Haha dude.. process to end suffering. 

You got some work to do brah. Don’t bother arguing about it. Go into yourself man. 

I always have work to do, chop wood, carry water, but my work has nothing to do with my peace.

Liberation is realized without work but the ego may hinder liberation. That's what we are all talking about, right? Which is why I bring healthy conditioning to it, so it will agree with the liberation, not be an obstacle to it.

Interesting word choice, "argue", it's reflective of your conditioning.

[robdl]

19 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Me either man. Haha its just so clear to mind that doesn’t escape the fact. 

You know I’m amazed at how many “enlightened beings” can’t see what-is. They claim to see THE BIG WHAT IS, but seem to not even see the condition/illusory what-is. It’s quite entertaining actually. 

Indeed.  It's like someone talking about what life is like outside of prison, and when you actually get into discussion as to the nature of prison and prison life, they give a lot of confused and conflicting answers, and start getting antagonistic toward you for even talking about it.

Your learning-understanding of what prison is seems to threaten their cultivated ideas about being free from it.

Edited December 6, 2018 by robdl

[SOUL]

This thread had a great discussion going on until the 'movement dudes' took it over.

[Jack River]

23 minutes ago, robdl said:

Indeed.  It's like someone talking about what life is like outside of prison, and when you actually get into discussion as to the nature of prison and prison life, they give a lot of confused and conflicting answers, and start getting antagonistic toward you for even talking about it.

Your learning-understanding of what prison is seems to threaten their cultivated ideas about being free from it.

You said it dude. 

24 minutes ago, SOUL said:

I always have work to do, chop wood, carry water, but my work has nothing to do with my peace.

Liberation is realized without work but the ego may hinder liberation. That's what we are all talking about, right? Which is why I bring healthy conditioning to it, so it will agree with the liberation, not be an obstacle to it.

Interesting word choice, "argue", it's reflective of your conditioning.

Haha you crack me up dude. Oh the games a self will play eh.  

When it comes to the psychological field conditioning is far from healthy dude. To cultivate and condition thought to function(learn a language, to learn an art is great/healthy).

But psychologically that is where divison/conflict/fear/attachment/identification/resistance is born. Is that healthy, or orderly?

Or the reason a self gets involved in all this self reflection/self understanding/exploration in the first place? 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

2 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Oh the games a self will play eh

Yep, it's clear....dudes

 

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

When you think you've fooled the devil, in fact you were the one being fooled.

My apologies for what happened in this thread, it has some real insightful stuff being discussed until... well, again, my apologies.

[who chit]

2 hours ago, robdl said:

 it's not coming from intellect  the source is not intellect.

This is the answer to "how is wisdom transferred" . Truth Wisdom does not come from the intellect that is prior and/or, learned knowledge, contained in memory. When the mind is of no thought,and therefore no self, it arises from the still,inner silence of the one,original intelligence. This is why the highest truth is communicated through silence,not words. For those who are open and apt to receive it. It is also the source of deep insight not born of intellectual knowledge. It is always new and fresh.

A true speaker/guru who is in touch/one with truth, hears for the first time, everytime, as he is transmitting it to the listener or student. As what the teacher is transmitting, is not coming from him that is seen as a person, but as one who is in communion with truth. That's why the meaning of guru is
"dispeller of darkness". The body is only a conduit for which Truth can be transmitted. The "person" is not communicating/speaking Truth. Truth, is communicating/speaking Truth, through  the teacher/guru from the depth and stillness of inner silence.
It is the original one,intelligence (brahman,atman,god,the absolute etc.), prior to all knowledge.

The "guru" or source of truth wisdom, is also in you,  (but not "you",the person/self/intellect), in that thoughtless,still inner silence. It is the same truth/intelligence, of that which is in the teacher and/or transmitter of Truth wisdom. The ancient texts were written from that same source of Truth. The Bhagavad gita,Ashtavakra Gita,Tao Te Ching,The Vedas,Upanishads,the works of Nisargadatta and Ramana Maharshi etc.

Edited December 6, 2018 by who chit

[robdl]

14 minutes ago, who chit said:

This is the answer to "how is wisdom transferred" . Truth Wisdom does not come from the intellect that is prior and/or, learned knowledge, contained in memory. When the mind is of no thought,and therefore no self, it arises from the still,inner silence of the one,original intelligence. This is why the highest truth is communicated through silence,not words. For those who are open and apt to receive it. It is also the source of deep insight not born of intellectual knowledge. It is always new and fresh.

A true speaker/guru who is in one with truth, hears for the first time, everytime, as he is transmitting it to the listener or student. As what the teacher is transmitting, is not coming from him that is seen as a person, but as one who is in communion with truth. That's why the meaning of guru is
"dispeller of darkness". The body is only a conduit for which Truth can be transmitted. The "person" is not communicating/speaking Truth. Truth is communicating/speaking Truth, through  the teacher/guru from the depth and stillness of inner silence.
It is the original one,intelligence (brahman,atman,god,the absolute etc.), prior to all knowledge.

The "guru" or source of truth wisdom, is also in you (but not "you",the person/self/intellect), in that thoughtless,still inner silence. It is the same truth/intelligence of that which is in the teacher and/or transmitter of Truth wisdom. The ancient texts were written from that same source of Truth. The Bhagavad gita,Ashtavakra Gita,Tao Te Ching,The Vedas,Upanishads,the works of Nisargadatta and Ramana Maharshi etc.

Beautifully said.

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, who chit said:

This is the answer to "how is wisdom transferred" . Truth Wisdom does not come from the intellect that is prior and/or, learned knowledge, contained in memory. When the mind is of no thought,and therefore no self, it arises from the still,inner silence of the one,original intelligence. This is why the highest truth is communicated through silence,not words. For those who are open and apt to receive it. It is also the source of deep insight not born of intellectual knowledge. It is always new and fresh.

A true speaker/guru who is in touch/one with truth, hears for the first time, everytime, as he is transmitting it to the listener or student. As what the teacher is transmitting, is not coming from him that is seen as a person, but as one who is in communion with truth. That's why the meaning of guru is
"dispeller of darkness". The body is only a conduit for which Truth can be transmitted. The "person" is not communicating/speaking Truth. Truth, is communicating/speaking Truth, through  the teacher/guru from the depth and stillness of inner silence.
It is the original one,intelligence (brahman,atman,god,the absolute etc.), prior to all knowledge.

The "guru" or source of truth wisdom, is also in you,  (but not "you",the person/self/intellect), in that thoughtless,still inner silence. It is the same truth/intelligence, of that which is in the teacher and/or transmitter of Truth wisdom. The ancient texts were written from that same source of Truth. The Bhagavad gita,Ashtavakra Gita,Tao Te Ching,The Vedas,Upanishads,the works of Nisargadatta and Ramana Maharshi etc.

You really know how to party @who chit

definelty the way I see it. What was said here is not the product of the intellect/thought. It’s a seeing not limited to mind/self/time. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

My apologies for what happened in this thread, it has some real insightful stuff being discussed until... well, again, my apologies.

On the contraray, it's all beautiful and insightful, Thank you for your contribution. It went deeper than I ever imagined. For me the best part is the insights invoked by integrating all the different perspectives.

To see the failure in communication also sheds much light on the issue. Which is what evoked this inquiry in the first place. I've tried to communicate my insights to another person with a rich background in spiritual practice, and to my surprise I was met with a huge wall of misunderstanding, no interst at all to ask simple existential questions, and pure resistance.

Obviously our friend here is a young stage green and full of complex terms, which is really ok, because the path to become wise includes being very foolish for very long.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[who chit]

@robdl @Jack River  

[Anton Rogachevski]

@who chit

Thank you for your contribution sir.

If I may add, in my foolish opinion it's the collaboration between the intellect and the intutive proccess which produces wise and deep insights: for example Leo.

The intellect is the fish net in which insights are cought. (Plus it's literally a web of belief.)

Edited December 6, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[Anton Rogachevski]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

Wise words ??

Once home, everyone else had been there all along. 

Thank you dear sir. Would you care to eleborate on your metaphor?