How is wisdom transferred?

[Forestluv]

@SOUL Beautiful 

[SOUL]

7 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@SOUL Sigh, still discussing the futility of discussion?

Does this bring about clarity about what shadow is?

Who said discussion is futile? Maybe your ego wanted you to believe I did because it doesn't want to hear my genuine message. WHO!

Does that bring clarity to what the shadow is?

[Anton Rogachevski]

4 hours ago, SOUL said:

I have a very complicated mind, one that loves to analyze the intricacies and nuances but that is just ego looking to justify itself through it's machinations. This doesn't change that awakening is simple, being present in the moment is simple, not attaching to the self identity is simple. The simplicity of this is not enough to satisfy the ego's craving for relevance and to justify it because it in fact empties the ego of it's importance. So it invents a myriad of complexities to keep us from being present and from severing attachment to it's content.

The complexity is involved with the techniques and methods of the 'path', all of the things that people will do to occupy the mind with tasks they associate with their 'spirituality' and 'consciousness work'. So they spend countless hours discussing these things with others, in writing and reading about them, so that they can indulge the ego's desire to traffic in self styled 'wisdom'. People become infatuated with the complexities of their path and it distracts from the simple nature of just being present.

Just because it's simple doesn't mean it's easy, it undoubtedly can be very difficult to be present and stay present in a hyperactive and challenging world. This nonsense, pardon me but it is nonsense, about explaining the unexplainable is simply the ego projecting onto a blank screen what it believes is there. 'Nothingness' and 'emptiness' has no form, no characteristics or any definitions so to be talking about 'it's this' and 'no, it's that' is just the ego attempting to polish that blank screen into a mirror so it can gaze at it's own reflection.

Liberating one from suffering is not mutually exclusive from finding a purpose in life. Although liberation is a very fine purpose in life itself and without it every other purpose leaves craving more and continues to cause suffering. So even though we may have a complex array of variables that relate to our particular life circumstances in getting what we need to survive it would be a mistake to conflate these two into one in the same. Chopping wood and carrying water is the same act that gets the same result but the fulfillment and peace in liberation is incalculable.

It has been said that these techniques and methods are merely scaffolding to build our 'temple' of our path and isn't actually what we are working on. The problem with this metaphor is that it implies we still have a need for the scaffolding for as long as we continue on the temple path. I say we aren't building the temple but dismantling it, we ae tearing down the scaffolding as we tear down the temple so that neither of them remain. We aren't writing the book of our spiritual path, we are erasing it and burning the pages. The ego cannot see the wisdom in that.

If I may be frank, I would suggest to look at your relationship with your ego. You seem to not like it's nature. Are you in a fight against it? Do you realize that by doing this you double the problem and create a good ego and a bad one, and thus forming an unnecessary tension. They say that to make the leap necessary for self-transcendence it takes a strong ego. Also the only way to melt evil is to love it. Love ego and it's trickery and be at peace with yourself.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[Anton Rogachevski]

6 hours ago, Jack River said:

?

what would you say is the greatest responsibility after freedom/liberation? 

To embody truth right...which means can I live a day to day life free of the image of myself which gets projected in relationship onto others. Do you realize the energy it takes to do this? 

In Buddhism they say it's to be a bodysatva - to go back from nirvana and to be a lighthouse for those who still suffer.

Enlightenment is not a possession to be kept to the self, if you don't keep the flow of spiritual energy it will decay, as standing water does.

[Jack River]

As I said...which means can I live a day to day life free of the image of myself which gets projected in relationship onto others. Can you do this? 

8 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

In Buddhism they say it's to be a bodysatva - to go back from nirvana and to be a lighthouse for those who still suffer.

Yeah Buddhism says that..

 

8 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

Enlightenment is not a possession to be kept to the self

Can we go beyond what we have heard about “enlightenment”? 

Past all the superficial mutterings 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Anton Rogachevski]

59 minutes ago, Jack River said:

As I said...which means can I live a day to day life free of the image of myself which gets projected in relationship onto others. Can you do this? 

Yeah Buddhism says that..

 

Can we go beyond what we have heard about “enlightenment”? 

Past all the superficial mutterings 

I'm learning slowly to do that, and it's very rewarding.

Some facts don't change. I agree with these statements, live by them, and get amazing results. I'm sorry if you've heard it once. The more I go deeper the more I see how true they are.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[Jack River]

I feel ya dude..

 Notice how that sense of reward arises too. This can also be a subtle indication of a self imposed image feeding off itself. The self seems to feed off the image it invents of itself, and that image will also seek security by others validating it. If they don’t go along with(validate that image) shit can quickly hit the fan.

Pretty gnarly how these images bring about conflict huh? 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

2 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

If I may be frank, I would suggest to look at your relationship with your ego. You seem to not like it's nature. Are you in a fight against it? Do you realize that by doing this you double the problem and create a good ego and a bad one, and thus forming an unnecessary tension. They say that to make the leap necessary for self-transcendence it takes a strong ego. Also the only way to melt evil is to love it. Love ego and it's trickery and be at peace with yourself.

Good and bad ego? Two egos? BAHA! I don't wish that on anyone. The ego isn't good or bad, it just is what it is, it has it's nature and I understand what that is. Actually, I'm best friends with my ego, I trained the monkey mind to seek transcendence of it's own nature so it reflects that in it's 'conditioning'. I am at peace with the nature of all consciousness experience;

You're reaching for something that isn't there now trying to find something to criticize about what I am saying. You know where that motivated reasoning comes from, don't you? I understand why you would go there, though. You probably have come across people who demonize the ego quite often but you may be reading that into the context from previous experiences even though I didn't say it.

Good and evil is a dichotomy created by a mistaken perception of the primitive mind from our observation of the natural world. There is no such moral duality but we saw night and day, male and female, life and death so we mythologized it into a good and evil dualism. It does rise up from the self conscious impulse to self preserve and the ego's desire to create identity.

Again, this isn't a good or bad thing, it just is what it is and it does naturally cause self suffering if left to it's own devices because that's what it does by it's own naturalistic impulse to survive. To awaken is to become aware of this natural impulse and to transcend it is liberation. The natural impulse doesn't really go away, our toe hurts when we smash it, our stomach aches for food and our ego seeks identify.

When we transcend it in awareness and cease to be reflexively triggered by the self preserving impulse or consumed by the attaching desire of ego it frees consciousness from the self suffering that our body naturally is disposed to. No moral judgements about it, it just is what it is and what I do to liberate my self from suffering. Does that clarify it?

[ground]

Monkey mind likes endless thought proliferations.

[Anton Rogachevski]

21 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Good and bad ego? Two egos? BAHA! I don't wish that on anyone. The ego isn't good or bad, it just is what it is, it has it's nature and I understand what that is. Actually, I'm best friends with my ego, I trained the monkey mind to seek transcendence of it's own nature so it reflects that in it's 'conditioning'. I am at peace with the nature of all consciousness experience;

You're reaching for something that isn't there now trying to find something to criticize about what I am saying. You know where that motivated reasoning comes from, don't you? I understand why you would go there, though. You probably have come across people who demonize the ego quite often but you may be reading that into the context from previous experiences even though I didn't say it.

Good and evil is a dichotomy created by a mistaken perception of the primitive mind from our observation of the natural world. There is no such moral duality but we saw night and day, male and female, life and death so we mythologized it into a good and evil dualism. It does rise up from the self conscious impulse to self preserve and the ego's desire to create identity.

Again, this isn't a good or bad thing, it just is what it is and it does naturally cause self suffering if left to it's own devices because that's what it does by it's own naturalistic impulse to survive. To awaken is to become aware of this natural impulse and to transcend it is liberation. The natural impulse doesn't really go away, our toe hurts when we smash it, our stomach aches for food and our ego seeks identify.

When we transcend it in awareness and cease to be reflexively triggered by the self preserving impulse or consumed by the attaching desire of ego it frees consciousness from the self suffering that our body naturally is disposed to. No moral judgements about it, it just is what it is and what I do to liberate my self from suffering. Does that clarify it?

As clear as day. Only if I may add one thing: talking about spirituality and keep playing with complex ideas is good in the sense that it helps to keep awareness. It's easy to think you are already free and to go about your life without practice. But soon you end up in misery again. It's like a maintenance routine. The ego doesn't rest after awakening, it's very much alive and kicking. The way is to always stay one step ahead. 

 

Quote

Monkey mind likes endless thought proliferations.

It's a cool habit indeed. Like I said before it's a sport for the mind to stay sharp.

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[SOUL]

6 minutes ago, ground said:

Monkey mind likes endless thought proliferations.

Yes, the ego's monkey mind machinations can be difficult to manage and it will cling to the methods and ideas about the 'spiritual path' so become a 'spiritual ego'. This can become a stumbling block to genuine transcendence and will continue to create self suffering.

I use inner work to train the monkey mind with transcending 'conditioning' of releasing attachment. It may seem paradoxical to have the ego attach to non-attachment and identify with non-identity but using the ego's nature to seek transcendence is powerful inner work.

[Anton Rogachevski]

52 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I feel ya dude..

 Notice how that sense of reward arises too. This can also be a subtle indication of a self imposed image feeding off itself. The self seems to feed off the image it invents of itself, and that image will also seek security by others validating it. If they don’t go along with(validate that image) shit can quickly hit the fan.

Pretty gnarly how these images bring about conflict huh? 

The trick is to remove the need for outside validation and give it to yourself constantly and unconditionally. That's a healthy ego.

[SOUL]

6 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

As clear as day. Only if I may add one thing: talking about spirituality and keep playing with complex ideas is good in the sense that it helps to keep awareness. It's easy to think you are already free and to go about your life without practice. But soon you end up in misery again. It's like a maintenance routine. The ego doesn't rest after awakening, it's very much alive and kicking. The way is to always stay one step ahead.

This concern is addressed here.

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

Yes, the ego's monkey mind machinations can be difficult to manage and it will cling to the methods and ideas about the 'spiritual path' so become a 'spiritual ego'. This can become a stumbling block to genuine transcendence and will continue to create self suffering.

I use inner work to train the monkey mind with transcending 'conditioning' of releasing attachment. It may seem paradoxical to have the ego attach to non-attachment and identify with non-identity but using the ego's nature to seek transcendence is powerful inner work.

This way the ego becomes an advocate for transcendence not a obstacle to it.

[ground]

3 minutes ago, SOUL said:

I use inner work to train the monkey mind with transcending 'conditioning' of releasing attachment. It may seem paradoxical to have the ego attach to non-attachment and identify with non-identity but using the ego's nature to seek transcendence is powerful inner work.

Whatever. No need for you to explain and no need for me to understand.

[SOUL]

Just now, ground said:

Whatever. No need for you to explain and no need for me to understand.

There's no need to post of forums either yet here we are. Peace.

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

The trick is to remove the need for outside validation and give it to yourself constantly and unconditionally. That's a healthy ego.

Can we say the motive/intention to remove the need for outside validation is influenced itself by a self imposed image? 

Does this imply control/effort? 

And if so, does that effort/control feed the image of self, and feed it’s own divison between the experiencer and the experience(thinker and the thought? 

If this divided action is taking place isn’t it implicit in that that there will be a self induced image and image projection as well?

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

The ego/fear seems to feed off control/effort. Likea self sustaining mechanism. Can that be healthy? 

[SOUL]

16 minutes ago, Jack River said:

The ego/fear seems to feed off control/effort. Likea self sustaining mechanism. Can that be healthy? 

Ego uses many things to identify with so if we transform it's conditioning, yes, it can be healthy.

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Ego uses many things to identify with so if we transform it's conditioning, yes, it can be healthy.

Ah I see 

whos going to transform this conditioning? Is one image going to control another? 

Or is there an entity that stands aside and directs/chooses/controls what images to exclude and keep?

Edited December 5, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

1 minute ago, Jack River said:

Ah I see 

whos going to transform this conditioning? Is one image going to control another? 

Who's asking who? WHO!

The owl cult that's who!