NutritionFacts.org (Michael Greger)

[Soulbass]

https://www.youtube.com/user/NutritionFactsOrg/videos?view=0&flow=grid&sort=p

Well, that's a good source bro.

[SoothedByRain]

 

[SgtPepper]

Vegans criticism of meat is bullshit. They never bring up studies with healthy sources of meat that use a healthy population.

how about the people who cannot consume high fiber content? or what about the people have been healed through beef broth?

 

 

I ate "vegan" or very low animal products for two weeks, and ate meat maybe one or two times on the weekends. Plant foods added a lot to my diet, but I did feel a lack in strength and sharpness from not eating meat/fish. 

"Eat food. Mostly Plants. Not too much." - is a good guideline in my experience.

[SoothedByRain]

@SgtPepper two weeks means nothing . . .

[AMS]

17 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

Vegans criticism of meat is bullshit. They never bring up studies with healthy sources of meat that use a healthy population.

how about the people who cannot consume high fiber content? or what about the people have been healed through beef broth?

 

 

I ate "vegan" or very low animal products for two weeks, and ate meat maybe one or two times on the weekends. Plant foods added a lot to my diet, but I did feel a lack in strength and sharpness from not eating meat/fish. 

"Eat food. Mostly Plants. Not too much." - is a good guideline in my experience.

Indeed and some people are very anti-vegan out there I am noticing, it's shocking.  Makes you wonder...

This new one will ruffle some feathers too...

'PROOF we are EVOLVING INTO HERBIVORES | The Vegan Master Race rises' - Primal Edge Health
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUejvqBDLRs&t=328s

Edited December 3, 2018 by AMS

[Outer]

21 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

Vegans criticism of meat is bullshit. They never bring up studies with healthy sources of meat that use a healthy population.

how about the people who cannot consume high fiber content? or what about the people have been healed through beef broth?

What do you mean by 'healthy'?

What have people been healed of, with beef broth?

You can eat a low fiber diet without animal products, probably not zero unless you want to eat refined and synthetic foods.

[Outer]

21 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

I ate "vegan" or very low animal products for two weeks, and ate meat maybe one or two times on the weekends. Plant foods added a lot to my diet, but I did feel a lack in strength and sharpness from not eating meat/fish. 

So what did you eat instead of meat? You're missing out on calories,  fat, protein and a bunch of vitamins  and minerals when you stop eating meat.

[SgtPepper]

2 hours ago, Outer said:

What do you mean by 'healthy'?

What have people been healed of, with beef broth?

You can eat a low fiber diet without animal products, probably not zero unless you want to eat refined and synthetic foods.

Healthy as in, healthy animals that eat their natural diet, popularly known as grass-fed meat, for example. 

I mentioned beef broth because I have read stories of ex-vegans who came across a serious healthy issue that led them to needing to consume bone or beef broth as way to easily digest food and intake nutrients found in meat. 

How can one eat a healthy diet without animal products and low fiber? I was easily consuming at least 100g of fiber per day when I ate plant-based. Fortunately, I do not have a problem with fiber, but I know a family friend who has Crohn's and says he cannot eat too much fiber, nor can he eat raw veggies. 

 

2 hours ago, Outer said:

So what did you eat instead of meat? You're missing out on calories,  fat, protein and a bunch of vitamins  and minerals when you stop eating meat.

Lots of legumes, quinoa, rice, pasta, seeds, nuts, flax milk for calcium, peppers, tomatoes, onions, turmeric, salt, pepper, kale, olive oil, lettuce, broccoli, oranges, strawberries, blueberries, and kiwis. All as organic as possible. 

I tried to follow closely to kind of meals Simnett nutrition 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpyhJZhJQWKDdJCR07jPY-Q/videos

I still dig his videos tho and respect his lifestyle.

9 hours ago, Shiva said:

Just have a look a Nutritionfacts.org. Under every single video you can find the sources many of which have a large sample size. He even presents the sources in the videos. There are even studies like the famous China Study that included more than 350 variables and thousands of participants.

You can eat very unhealthy even if you're vegan. Vegan doesn't say anything about what you actually eat. Try whole foods plant-based instead for several months and then see what happens.

My next step towards this nutrition journey will be to start looking at these milestone studies in depth. I am aware of the China study, but I have not had the pleasure of reading the book.

In my opinion, I ate at least a 90% healthy vegan diet. The only nutrient I found that was hard to get was Iron and a couple of B vitamins (B3 and B6 I believe), but I am aware I could fill these up without animal products.

and I did learn a lot from the experiment which is that eating a plant-based diet is great! but should one give up meat/fish entirely?

I do not think so for a few reasons:

1. Reliance on B12 supplement which are synthetic or semi-synthetic.

2. Nutrients in meat and dairy are easier to get whether that is B vitamins, iron, protein.

- NOTE I am not saying you can't get protein on a vegan diet. You can! during the plant-based only experiment, I would get around 80-100g of protein a day without trying. HOWEVER, if you want to reach 150g of protein, its definitely harder.

3. Other nutrients that can only be found in animal products.

-----

BENEFITS of a plant-based diet:

Better skin and less acne. (this could be attributed to less junk food, possible dairy and more fruits and vegetables tho)

Felt lighter

Loved the high fiber content which would leave me filled for long periods and hunger would creep slowly. 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by SgtPepper

[SgtPepper]

6 hours ago, AMS said:

Indeed and some people are very anti-vegan out there I am noticing, it's shocking.  Makes you wonder...

This new one will ruffle some feathers too...

'PROOF we are EVOLVING INTO HERBIVORES | The Vegan Master Race rises' - Primal Edge Health
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUejvqBDLRs&t=328s

Yeah I am noticing a push for the carnivore diet, but it does not resonate with me. I see myself very much as an omnivore. Although that video is f-ing hilarious lol. 

[AMS]

14 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Yeah I am noticing a push for the carnivore diet, but it does not resonate with me. I see myself very much as an omnivore. Although that video is f-ing hilarious lol. 

Haha yep.  No worries man, most of us carnivores are actually pretty chill.  We're not about turning the whole world carnivore, just passionate about true health and preventing the abolition of meat.  Do what works for you, for most that will need to include animal products imo!

[Outer]

1 hour ago, SgtPepper said:

How can one eat a healthy diet without animal products and low fiber? I was easily consuming at least 100g of fiber per day when I ate plant-based. Fortunately, I do not have a problem with fiber, but I know a family friend who has Crohn's and says he cannot eat too much fiber, nor can he eat raw veggies. 

What is a healthy diet?

1 hour ago, AMS said:

Haha yep.  No worries man, most of us carnivores are actually pretty chill.  We're not about turning the whole world carnivore, just passionate about true health and preventing the abolition of meat.  Do what works for you, for most that will need to include animal products imo!

What do you eat?

[SgtPepper]

3 hours ago, AMS said:

Haha yep.  No worries man, most of us carnivores are actually pretty chill.  We're not about turning the whole world carnivore, just passionate about true health and preventing the abolition of meat.  Do what works for you, for most that will need to include animal products imo!

I believe it and I respect the movement, especially people like Joe Rogan who hunt their food.

Sourcing healthy raw meat & milk seems difficult and risky, at least it appears that way from my location and perspective. 

But the raw meat and raw milk diet appears to be legitimate, especially with the work of Winston Price.

My only concern is gall bladder issues, but I can't make any claims because the subject of raw meat is still relatively new to me.

 

2 hours ago, Outer said:

What is a healthy diet?

A healthy diet to me roughly speaking is eating whole foods, mostly plants, not too much. 

It's going to depend on the person too. as you may have heard the notion that Northern Europeans will thrive more on Sat. Fat, dairy, and in general animal foods.

A healthy breakfast, could simply be pure fruits like bananas and berries or an egg omelette, depending on how I feel.

A healthy dinner for me would be a Salmon filet with steamed broccoli (perhaps with some carrots). Or half a sweet potato with steak. Or I could substitute the potato with green beans.

On another night, I could eat and would consider a "vegan" like meal healthy as well- for example, a quinoa dish with beans, peppers, onions, mushrooms, tomatoes, hemp seeds and leafy greens. I would find this delicious and satisfying as well. 

Overall, if its a whole food that my grandparents would recognize, then I consider it healthy. I guess the Mediterranean diet would fit the closest to my ideal vision of a healthy diet.

 

[Haumea2018]

Veganism cannot be for all people as people are not identical genetically, anatomically, as far as blood or digestion. Scientists are even looking at gut flora differences in different personality types.

We are not cookie-cutter.

Any attempt to promote veganism to all is essentially religious in nature, and proselytizing vegans need to be treated as Jehovah's Witnesses.

"Studies" on this don't mean much at all, as most studies do not address even a few confounding variables.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Outer]

6 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

It's going to depend on the person too. as you may have heard the notion that Northern Europeans will thrive more on Sat. Fat, dairy, and in general animal foods.

So "Northern Europeans" thrive more on saturated fat, dairy and in general animal foods?

[Outer]

1 hour ago, Shiva said:

I wouldn't worry so much about not getting enough protein. I have never seen a protein deficient person in the west in my entire life. In fact that's almost impossible if you eat enough calories and a reasonable amount of whole foods.

Well, if someone doesn't get enough protein (essential amino acids) they will eventually get a deficiency.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Outer

[Outer]

12 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

1. Reliance on B12 supplement which are synthetic or semi-synthetic.

Yes one needs to take synthetic B12 supplement if one doesn't eat animal products.

[AMS]

I eat a carnivore diet consisting of cooked fatty muscle meat only, for a year and a half now.  Even in the carnivore community there is a divide between schools of thought of whether eating organ meat or eating it raw/drinking milk and blood leads to the best health.  I have experimented with organ meats a bit in the past and don't mind some of them but they are not as easily accessible these days due to not being as popular.  For now I subscribe to a specific zero carb community (there are multiple ones out there) where many 'veterans' of the diet seem to end up.  The group is strictly animal products and advises against any supplements and has the stance that muscle meat only (cooked or raw) is sufficient to achieve stellar health.  Lots of the veterans there still opt to eat only fatty muscle meat and feel no need to experiment any further to see if organs could be better or if raw would be more optimal or if they should even add any plant back in to the diet now that their guts have healed and could probably tolerate some, they still choose not to.  There are cases there with people eating exclusively fatty ribeye steaks for 20 years straight, reversing serious diseases such as Lyme and now in thriving health with children eating the same way and them the parents looking vibrant, with great body composition and much younger than their ages.

The group is my main source of wisdom (though am interested to do proper experimentation with raw etc in the future) for now because it is a collective database essentially of a decade worth of experimentation in eating from the animal kingdom only with people coming from all different baselines of health and seeing the success stories and what the quickest/most successful approach was.  It is good because it dispels a lot of myths about meat, even that the healthier the animal the much better it will be for you, which we think is a given.  They seem to think it is rather the abstenance from potential trigger plant foods and their defensive mechanisms that brings the great health and then meat simply has everything the body needs (the body functions quite differently compared to a carb eater) and that we are actually better equipped as carnivores (though some can definitely include more plants in their diet but in this group they don't talk about it).  They seem to think we greatly evolved from lots of scavenging and then hunting of megafauna.  Their stance is also not that everyone needs to eat this way to achieve health but rather that some people will need to but if someone can tolerate certain level of plants then go for it (but most don't realize actually how sensitive they are till they start omitting things).  I personally think the world should be going more towards a higher fat/lower carb animal products diet and then the individual can determine the ratio how they please.

This is a great follow up video to the earlier one posted and I think Primal Edge Health does it maturely and assertively.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by AMS

[Outer]

Gojiman talking about copyright strikes, does he know that if people use his clips while discussing them its fair use?

[SgtPepper]

12 hours ago, Shiva said:

@SgtPepper I wouldn't worry so much about not getting enough protein. I have never seen a protein deficient person in the west in my entire life. In fact that's almost impossible if you eat enough calories and a reasonable amount of whole foods.

I'd be more worried about the consequences of eating twice or three-times more than the required amount of protein every day.

Regarding the B12 myth: B12 is not made by plants or animals but by microbes that blanket the earth. In today’s sanitized, modern world, the water supply is commonly chlorinated to kill off any bacteria. So, while we don’t get much B12 in the water anymore, we don’t get much cholera, either, which is a good thing! 

I am worried about other nutrients that are in animal foods but not in plant foods. in addition, the accessibility of nutrients through animal foods appears to be more bioavailable. 

Further, I am just not convinced by the original research that suggests animal fat and that saturated fat is bad. As someone else mentioned, there are confounding variable that are often not taken into account, such as the daily activities of the population and the quality of the animal product.

10 hours ago, Outer said:

So "Northern Europeans" thrive more on saturated fat, dairy and in general animal foods?

I'd say so since it follows logically that fruits and vegetables are more scarce in the northern region hence relying on animal products. This is also further supported by european's tolerance and acceptance of milk in their daily diet, in other words europeans are not lactose intolerance.

[SgtPepper]

10 hours ago, AMS said:

I eat a carnivore diet consisting of cooked fatty muscle meat only, for a year and a half now.  Even in the carnivore community there is a divide between schools of thought of whether eating organ meat or eating it raw/drinking milk and blood leads to the best health.  I have experimented with organ meats a bit in the past and don't mind some of them but they are not as easily accessible these days due to not being as popular. 

I also eat organ meats when my parents cook them (I still live with my parents). This includes chicken liver and kidney. 

In Portugal, (my heritage) we make a soup called "canja" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canja_de_galinha

Absolutely delicious, but it is often made with chicken organs as well. 

We also make rice with chicken blood, that is also good.

blood sausages as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_sausage.

When I was younger, my family would make a trip to a local farm and we would get fresh meat. I would see my mother and aunt create the blood sausage from scratch.

I am definitely fortunate enough to grow up with an authentic European background (I am a first generation American). Most westerns I know, have never eaten any organ foods and they find it to be off-putting.

Personally, I also like a high fat diet as well. 

Again, I still find a lot of benefits from eating broccoli, leafy greens, fruits, nuts, legumes, and seeds. I am not sure how accurate the whole "anti-nutrients" argument is. Fruits are an excellent source of natural energy and plants help with digestion and satiety, in my experience. 

------------------

It's also important to understand one's motivation behind one's diet. A lot of vegans are motivated from an ethical perspective. I am and always was motivated from a health perspective, soooo yeah I love animals, especially horsies (I don't eat horses), but I am not willing to sacrifice my health. Factory farming is still an abomination.