Why are you doing this?

[karkaore]

Hopefully what i am about to say will get to some of you.

All this came to my head after seeing many posts about how people get panic attacks, the feeling of emptiness, deprssion, not seeing a point anymore ect ect.

Why are you doing this? Why are you meditating? Why self-inquiry? Why do yoga or any sort of spiritual activity? You want it all to make you feel better? You want your suffering, physical and mental pain to vanish? Or do you want to escape your reality? Maybe you are after enlightenment or life purpose? Cause let me break it down to you.. NONE of the above will make it come true if you don't know what are you actually doing.

Spiritual work will not make your "problems" go away. It will make them feel even more real. What spiritual work does, it brings everything to the surface. EVERYTHING. All your childhood traumas, all your judgement of yourself and others. It's not gonna make you only feel blissfulness and joy. Eventually you are gonna face everything, the darkest corners of your mind and the brightest ones. In other words, if you are depressed and you only meditate without any other things to actually help yourself overcome the depression then meditation will make your depression even more overwhelming.

Think things through before going head on into spirituality. The whole point of it is to let go of everything, all your attachments, beliefs ect. Your whole "EGO". You have really, really feel that you would be able to deal with everything that is thrown at you. So no wonder why you get panic attacks ect., the reason is that you are trying to RESIST the UNIVERSE. And we all know how is that gonna go.

Stop resisting, stop trying to make sense, stop chasing something. Just stop and be. Just being is all there is. <3

[TheAvatarState]

Your post doesn't make any sense. Sorry. 

You're trying to analyze depressed people from the vantage point of (probably) already having an enlightenment experience. Just because YOU can just "be"(and understand what that means), doesn't mean an unconscious person can. You're not appreciating your own journey and how you attained some of these insights. You're absolutely right that someone first starting consciousness work will feel even MORE depressed. More nihilistic. That's egoic reaction. That's not something to avoid! That's the journey! That IS what you should be working through! So anyone who's reading this, have faith in these practices. You must understand your entire ego and all its tricks. You must go through the darkest depths of your being, and face your worst fears and insecurities. I'll add that psychedelics help immensely with speeding up the process, but there are ultimately no shortcuts.

[helenaoftroy]

I find this really important actually.

I'm very young, just finishing a degree counted amongst the best. I'm stopping everything to do this.

From the outside I'm throwing my life in the crapper. Giving everything up.

So you can imagine how hard sometimes it hits me that I should at least have a clue why.

1: I'm a scientist. In a sense that the workings of anything fascinate me. I can conduct this study using only myself.

2: I have big emotional problems.

3: I want the truth. Especially about myself, which apparantly has the added bonus of being about everything.

Those are the main pillars I'd guess.

I understand what you're pointing out here. It is important to know when you want to cut off. Let's face it, as long as you're alive, you'll never know everything, you're still reality no matter how far you've gotten. So forget about being able to plant your flag saying you know all there is to know.

If you want to feel better, meditation is still great but it is important to know that if you cant deal with pain and you don't have a goal that goes further, you need to tip toe. In that sense, your post is very valuable.

But to answer your question, for me personally... I spent the better part of my life suffering and still remained functional, finished my higher education, have a great relationship to my little brother. I did alright, even if I was horribly neurotic before entering this.

This to say that I was perfectly "fine" with having to deal with deep suffering before it had a purpose. And now I'm on fire baby. I want to get fucking miserable. I want to fight so hard I'll collapse. It doesn't even matter if this is all fucking bullshit and you're all some cult minions.

I don't know who I fucking am, do you know how ridiculous that is? How am I supposed to build a life on nothing?

And I know for a fact that if I progressively throw every single little bullshit thing down the crapper, the only thing left... will be me and the truth. Enlightenment or not.

And I'm fucking ecstatic for it.

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by helenaoftroy

[helenaoftroy]

Although I must add. If this work becomes too forceful for you that you cant just be, like he says on his last paragraph, then maybe you're fighting against the rails.

How to know if you're driving your train off the tracks or if the tracks are supposed to be rough? Don't know. But I theorize to myself that you cant really derail yourself, you don't have that kind of power. What you can adjust is the speed you travel at. This is helpful insight for me. You cant be travelling 5km ahead of where you're standing.

Soooooo, my main goal is actually to feel good at all times and trusting that it'll lead me where I'm going. Trusting isn't the right word. It'll always lead me where I'm going.

Plan your life around your own happiness!!

[Forestluv]

Along the path presented by the OP, I think Amoda Maa is one of the best teachers from a heart-centered approach.

[Hello from Russia]

This work makes you suffer indeed, but if you don't do it you suffer way more. If you take all this seriously it actually liberates you, step by step, but you gotta put effort and labor

[purerogue]

I do not think that Enlightenment is what you think , enlightenment is just understanding, whatever you will suffer , or whatever else is up to you after that point. 

[karkaore]

@TheAvatarState You may have misunderstood me. Your reply is basically saying the same thing as my topic. What i meant is that this journey is not gonna make life all sunshine and roses. And that people should get the knowledge of what we are all doing here before diving into it. Because that's the reason why people get even more anxious, depressed ect, ect. They don't know what is the show about. One cannot expect this to convert the "bad" things into "good" or make the "bad" things dissolve. 

[Aquarius]

Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity Absolute Infinity  etc.

 

[kieranperez]

I’m mostly on board with this post. Honestly, this is my conversation with most people - disillusioning fantasies and realigning this process and how it tends to go. You will be forced to feel your suffering more than ever before. You will die. However that is the cost you pay to end all of that and end all suffering. So you must burn yourself alive in the fires of Truth to the point where all falsehoods and illusions have been turned to ash and all that remains is Truth and then you no longer suffer.

However, the whole “stop chasing” is not good advice for newbs. I think disclaimers and disillusioning is important but also don’t discourage hardcore seeking. That whole stop chasing advice is advice you apply once you’re well along the path and you’ve made your commitment and that commitment has been translated into faulty action and you have your intent to pursue this thing for real and then you can surrender that need to seek.

[TheAvatarState]

1 hour ago, karkaore said:

you are trying to RESIST the UNIVERSE. And we all know how is that gonna go.

Stop resisting, stop trying to make sense, stop chasing something. Just stop and be. Just being is all there is. <3

I don't think I misunderstood you. There's an important distinction to be made here. "Not resisting" is not something you can flip like a switch. If it was that easy, everyone would do it. One must learn why they're resisting. They must make sense of it. 

Why is chasing the Ox one of the first steps to enlightenment? Because the ego needs something to chase to make it worthwhile. It is only through this process of chasing and taming the ox that you are able to embody and see that you were the Ox the whole time. ONLY THEN can you surrender. 

If I read your post correctly, you advocate for beginners to stop chasing and making sense of the world. It doesn't work like that. 

[SgtPepper]

Because I enjoy it! simple as that when it comes down to it.

[Nahm]

We all need to be hoodwinked (thank you conditioning!). If you tell someone what nonduality is, they won't believe you. . If you ask someone what they really want, they don't know that they don't know. If you tell someone what's really involved, they'd never do it. We gotta wake em up or they'll sleep through the whole thing!

@karkaore

Your approach could be helpful on college forums too. "Just drop out!" "It's not worth it!" "You're fooling yourself!" "Stop fighting homeostasis! Just get a job at your dad's place!""

...maybe dating sights too? "It will never work out!" "Listen to the fear! STAY HOME!" "THERE IS NO MR. RIGHT! HE DOESN'T EXIST!!!!" "She'll be just like your mom no matter which girl you pick!!"

[non_nothing]

@karkaore Would you say you enlightened?

Btw I'll keep advertising my main post about all kind of similiar posts that I'll find, because I reference some reads there

 

[non_nothing]

2 hours ago, karkaore said:

What spiritual work does, it brings everything to the surface. EVERYTHING

You have some shadows my mate.

No look, It is not about me, I'm no greater than you or some like that. it is about you. Spiritual work is discovering who you are in essence. Not anything you put there. You might also want to check the post that I referenced above. Blessings on your path.

[non_nothing]

1 hour ago, helenaoftroy said:

I find this really important actually.

I'm very young, just finishing a degree counted amongst the best. I'm stopping everything to do this.

From the outside I'm throwing my life in the crapper. Giving everything up.

So you can imagine how hard sometimes it hits me that I should at least have a clue why.

1: I'm a scientist. In a sense that the workings of anything fascinate me. I can conduct this study using only myself.

2: I have big emotional problems.

3: I want the truth. Especially about myself, which apparantly has the added bonus of being about everything.

Those are the main pillars I'd guess.

I understand what you're pointing out here. It is important to know when you want to cut off. Let's face it, as long as you're alive, you'll never know everything, you're still reality no matter how far you've gotten. So forget about being able to plant your flag saying you know all there is to know.

If you want to feel better, meditation is still great but it is important to know that if you cant deal with pain and you don't have a goal that goes further, you need to tip toe. In that sense, your post is very valuable.

But to answer your question, for me personally... I spent the better part of my life suffering and still remained functional, finished my higher education, have a great relationship to my little brother. I did alright, even if I was horribly neurotic before entering this.

This to say that I was perfectly "fine" with having to deal with deep suffering before it had a purpose. And now I'm on fire baby. I want to get fucking miserable. I want to fight so hard I'll collapse. It doesn't even matter if this is all fucking bullshit and you're all some cult minions.

I don't know who I fucking am, do you know how ridiculous that is? How am I supposed to build a life on nothing?

And I know for a fact that if I progressively throw every single little bullshit thing down the crapper, the only thing left... will be me and the truth. Enlightenment or not.

And I'm fucking ecstatic for it.

 

 

 

When you have spare time, It would be very good for you to watch Mooji's satsangs. It's like TV shows and he's a funny guy to watch actually. It is not boring and I even have fun while watching it. You can find videos on youtube by search if not don't hesitate to PM me for links. I've seen this recommendation is very important for you. I hope a abundant life for you as scientist.

[purerogue]

There is only one absolute truth to find, that there is no absolute truth to find, until you will realize it you will not get it, because now I am saying that you still need to realize it , that is why they say you are trying to find something that you can't find and can't look for, but it does not mean that you exploration needs to end after it, there are many things you can experience if you want to, or many mystical states you can acquire that have nothing to do with understanding Enlightenment.

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by purerogue

[karkaore]

@Nahm  I didn't mean stopping spiritual work. What i meant was stop resisting the universe, if it makes you feel anxious, be with that anxiety. When one doesn't trust or believe in what is doing, all those things make a bigger impact. Relieving the stress, calm mind ect. ect. is important.

@non_nothing  I feel a bit confused when i hear people ask me that. I guess the answer would be yes and no. I have had some experience half a year ago. But honestly never have researched anything about that or nor i believe any of my concepts. I participate in the spiritual work for 8-9 months now.

And yeah, i am aware of my shadows. Actually you are the first one to notice them, or at least the first to point them out to me. I kinda feel better now. Thank you, sir.

[Consilience]

Honest to god I have no idea why. After watching and reading as much as I have about spirituality, and intellectually understanding the metaphysics, ontology, and epistemology of why this consciousness work is not bs, Ive recognized how there really isnt a self at all, even when it feels like there is one.

So why? Literally no idea. It just feels like Im letting some primordial force actualize as I continue to contemplate and meditate on this, all with the full recognition that non of it matters. And somehow it’s been an incredibly beautiful journey thus far, even in spite of the lows this work causes.

The best answer I have is that Im just trying to BE myself in the most honest way possible, as well as follow this intrinsic curiosity towards finding what’s really true

 

[karkaore]

@Consilience this