Time isn't real & you won't experience life as everyone individually

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, lmfao said:

 

@Leo Gura

I agree with what you are pointing towards. The true self is all of reality, as it is right now. 

OK Leo, but what do you mean by "creature" here? The idea that there exist external biological organisms which are centers for conscious experience is a concept which I cannot prove. You, Leo Gura, are appearing in my consciousness as a creature but I do not know that you are actually another conscious being. I am Leo Gura but I do not know if Leo Gura is conscious. 

The falsehood of solipsism is a practical truth but when aiming for Enlightenment we want the person to stop conceptualising and abstracting all together. 

To even say a statement like "you'll live forever" is extremely fuzzy verbal territory to root in actuality because implicit to that statement is notions of time when time is an illusion. 

It does not make sense to you because you are not awake.

If you woke up you'd immediately know that you are all creatures (and non-creatures) in the universe. This is not a theory or a conceptualization. It is the Absolute. But only if you awaken.

You don't need to become every creature to know this, you just need to wake up to what you are. To wake up is to become the entire universe and all objects in it.

At the moment of awakening you realize that you will reincarnate infinitely, forever. Because you cannot die. This means the big Self, not the ego. The ego was a fiction to begin with. It never was. But the big Self takes on infinite forms.

[lmfao]

@Leo Gura

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To wake up is to become the entire universe and all objects in it.

I 100% agree. 

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you woke up you'd immediately know that you are all creatures (and non-creatures) in the universe. This is not a theory or a conceptualization. It is the Absolute. But only if you awaken.

What I'm having an "issue" understanding is your definition of "creature". I'll use words other than "creature" to communicate my view. 

Edit: I do not know if other people in my conscious experience are centres of conscious experience or are not centres of conscious experience. Either way, the thoughts and actions of my ego  are as much me as the actions of other people. However, I do not know if these other conscious beings exist and have thoughts to begin with. To believe such a thing is to be conceptualising. All I know for certain is that reality, which is me, is this cloud of thoughts, feelings, sensations and is just a happening. 

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

At the moment of awakening you realize that you will reincarnate infinitely, forever. Because you cannot die. This means the big Self, not the ego. The ego was a fiction to begin with. It never was. But the big Self takes on infinite forms.

What do you mean by "forever"? "Forever" implies the existence of a infinitely extended past and future. The notion of "forever" is rooted in the concept of "time". I might come across as pedantic but I think I'm pointing to something important. 

Who knows if the big self it will take on an infinite number of forms. The way "I" see it , all I know for certain is that the big Self has the one form in my present moment experience because the past and future don't exist. The idea that reality is in flux and hence constantly changing form is an illusion if you accept that time is an illusion. 

I feel like with any discussion/debate on this forum, if the two of us were to sit with each other and shut our mouths and listen to the sound of a gong we'd reach a mutual understanding of the beauty of existence but the moment that mouths open there's always misunderstanding. Words are a tricky thing. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by lmfao

[purerogue]

How do you explain something , that has no explanation , there is no time and there is time, I think dividing it as matter of perception will be  good start for you until you get to experience it. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by purerogue

[lmfao]

@Leo Gura I can't edit my previous comment with the desired quote so I'm sending this separate message to just elaborate. 

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

God is being all creatures at all times. But from your POV you only see your POV.

You believe that you are God right, and that you are reality and reality is everything in your consciousness right? 

You can't prove that other people have their own POV and their own thoughts. God is everything in your direct experience, right now. As far as God is concerned, the thoughts of other conscious beings do not exist! You seem to think that the existence of other conscious beings is a given and I think you use the word "God" (which represents all of reality) in logically contradictory ways in the sense that you think God is everything in your experience yet you also think that God is the point of view of "other people" when the point of view of other people is not in your  experience. On the one hand you seem to be saying God is everything in your experience but then you're also saying God is this seperate experience and POV. But this separate experience and POV doesn't exist! It's a concept! The existence of another POV is a concept and is not in your direct experience, and is therefore not God. 

[Shadowraix]

37 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@Leo Gura

I 100% agree. 

What I'm having an "issue" understanding is your definition of "creature". I'll use words other than "creature" to communicate my view. 

Edit: I do not know if other people in my conscious experience are centres of conscious experience or are not centres of conscious experience. Either way, the thoughts and actions of my ego  are as much me as the actions of other people. However, I do not know if these other conscious beings exist and have thoughts to begin with. To believe such a thing is to be conceptualising. All I know for certain is that reality, which is me, is this cloud of thoughts, feelings, sensations and is just a happening. 

What do you mean by "forever"? "Forever" implies the existence of a infinitely extended past and future. The notion of "forever" is rooted in the concept of "time". I might come across as pedantic but I think I'm pointing to something important. 

Who knows if the big self it will take on an infinite number of forms. The way "I" see it , all I know for certain is that the big Self has the one form in my present moment experience because the past and future don't exist. The idea that reality is in flux and hence constantly changing form is an illusion if you accept that time is an illusion. 

I feel like with any discussion/debate on this forum, if the two of us were to sit with each other and shut our mouths and listen to the sound of a gong we'd reach a mutual understanding of the beauty of existence but the moment that mouths open there's always misunderstanding. Words are a tricky thing. 

Have you seen Leo's video on perception? Should clear a lot of this up. 

But at the end of the day all this conceptual stuff only takes you so far. Do you talk from concept or direct experience? 

[lmfao]

@Shadowraix I am trying to talk from direct experience. I believe what I'm saying is just a natural extension of the realisation that everything is now. I would be lying if I said that my motive behind typing these messages wasn't ego driven, but I'm at least trying to make sure I don't let that distort what I say too much. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by lmfao

[Nahm]

@lmfao What’s an illusion, as in, what does that word mean to you?

[lmfao]

@Nahm

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@lmfao What’s an illusion, as in, what does that word mean to you?

To me, an "illusion" is any belief or distortion in awareness that causes resistance to reality as it is. 

[purerogue]

2 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@Nahm

To me, an "illusion" is any belief or distortion in awareness that causes resistance to reality as it is. 

I could argue that there is no reality as it is. 

[Roman25]

I see a couple of flaws with enlightenment, direct experience, consciousness and psychedelics. I'm going to provide arguments with how these things MAY be flawed. I'm interested to see if these flaws can be debunked so here they are:

Enlightenment is seeing wavy lines while the lines are actually straight.

All psychedelics prove is that they warp our senses. They do not yield any sort of truth, it's a biological reaction to a foreign substance.

Direct experience is a flawed testimony. Magicians can easily prove that. People also have differing opinions when experiencing the same thing.

Just because you think that you are highly conscious doesn't prove that you actually are. You are thinking of "yourself' as being conscious. But that's just a thought/idea. 

[Nahm]

15 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@Nahm

To me, an "illusion" is any belief or distortion in awareness that causes resistance to reality as it is. 

What is “Reality as it is”?

[lmfao]

@Nahm "reality as it is" is just "reality". Its irreducible. Is there something you're trying to get at? 

Edited December 2, 2018 by lmfao

[Nahm]

@lmfao Yes.    “...an illusion is a belief or distortion.”

How do you know that’s true?

[Roman25]

Everyone who has replied on this thread is far smarter than I am so I'm going to need to clear up a few things. What does it mean when you say that "reality is conscious"? What do you mean when you say "objects are infinite"?

[lmfao]

@Nahm

7 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@lmfao 

How do you know that’s true?

I don't know its true. How can we a know anything to be "true"? But words will flow out of my mind anyway. The words flowing out of my mind have no more truth value than random colours or sounds I hear outside. The true origin of the definition I gave is nothing. But imma ignore that for know. 

The definition I gave for "illusion" in the context of Enlightenment and consciousness work is what my mind has based upon from my experiences meditating and practicing mindfulness. 

[lmfao]

@Roman Edouard

9 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

Everyone who has replied on this thread is far smarter than I am so I'm going to need to clear up a few things.

Bitch please, you're pretty cool and interesting. 

9 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

 What does it mean when you say that "reality is conscious"? What do you mean when you say "objects are infinite"?

If the first quote written here is instead phrased as "reality is consciousness" then I think I can more easily address the first question in your paragraph. 

In regards to the first question. Reality is everything you are experiencing right now is my perspective. Thoughts, 5 senses, attention, feelings, emotions, different sensations, other people and etc. It's just everything. And all of these things are in your conscious experience. "All concepts are in your conscious experience" is often something people on this forum are trying to get at when they talk about reality just being consciousness. People are trying to get at this to try and make people question their beliefs and assumptions of reality, their assumptions that there is an objective world and etc. 

In regards to your second question, I have no answer. I don't know what is meant by it either. 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by lmfao

[Nahm]

50 minutes ago, lmfao said:

To me, an "illusion" is any belief or distortion in awareness that causes resistance to reality as it is. 

Now we’re gettin somewhere.

How do you know an illusion “causes resistance to reality as it is”?

[Roman25]

29 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@Roman Edouard

Bitch please, you're pretty cool and interesting. 

If the first quote written here is instead phrased as "reality is consciousness" then I think I can more easily address the first question in your paragraph. 

In regards to the first question. Reality is everything you are experiencing right now is my perspective. Thoughts, 5 senses, attention, feelings, emotions, different sensations, other people and etc. It's just everything. And all of these things are in your conscious experience. "All concepts are in your conscious experience" is often something people on this forum are trying to get at when they talk about reality just being consciousness. People are trying to get at this to try and make people question their beliefs and assumptions of reality, their assumptions that there is an objective world and etc. 

In regards to your second question, I have no answer. I don't know what is meant by it either. 

 

 

That clears up a lot now. Thanks for that man. That's a concept that I'll been struggling to grasp for a while now.

 

25 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Now we’re gettin somewhere.

How do you know an illusion “causes resistance to reality as it is”?

Even though the question isn't directed to me I'd personally answer: believing an illusion is a coping mechanism to avoid understanding an uncomfortable fact. Therefore, it is resistance reality.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Roman Edouard
I can't spell

[lmfao]

@Nahm

46 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Now we’re gettin somewhere.

How do you know an illusion “causes resistance to reality as it is”?

Well that's hard to answer. When I read your question its like you're asking me how language and definitions are formed, and to that I would say I don't know. "Illusion" is word that has a different meaning to different people, depending on the context they hear it in, what connotations they have with the word, what other words they know and etc. And to then try and describe what it means to ascribe meaning to words, my answer is who tf knows. I have no clue why words are processed the way they are.

My cheeky answer to your question is "because I said so". This is simply the way I look at things, I can't verbally articulate to you why. 

In regards to the bit you quoted of me, something that I think I am currently incapable of adequetly defining is "resistance". I have, what is in my view, no good way of describing it off the top of my head.

NGL answering this question feels a tad bit gay. It's like I've just danced around with words and said nothing of substance LOL. I feel like a fraud :p. I just need to shut my mouth and meditate. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by lmfao

[Roman25]

I think I stared at Leo's face longer than I've stared at any one else's face in my life time. Whenever I look at it it's different from when I look at any other face. Hard to explain though lol.