A Question on Ralston’s Contemplation

[kieranperez]

Often I get confused when I read and listen to Ralston describing contemplation on more subtle things and then contrasting what he calls Contemplation and how he does it and then contrasting that with @Leo Gura when he talks about Contemplation. 

To elaborate on what I mean, I get this sort of notion when I read Ralston’s work that he treats Contemplation the same way of a minor question of like ‘what is time?’ Or since he’s a martial artist ‘what is judo?’ It almost seems like he treats it the same he does enlightenment work and meditating on this question outside of using thoughts. Whereas when I contrast this method or at least the way I’m interpreting it with Leo’s way of contemplating, he seems to be more open to using thought as demonstrated in “contemplating using a journal” and also his intro video to Contemplation. 

Leo if you see this, obviously you’ve met Ralston and had the chance to talk to him, how do you contrast his “style” of Contemplation with the way you present and teach Contemplation? Is there a difference or am I mistaken? 

[Consilience]

Id be interested in hearing Leo’s thoughts on this as well. 

[Leo Gura]

I use the word contemplation somewhat differently than he does.

He explains his version of contemplation in his book. It sort of includes concentration, meditation, and wondering. It requires extreme concentration. So extreme that it does not work for me.

You need concentration so strong you can bore a hole through a brick wall.

[kieranperez]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I use the word contemplation somewhat differently than he does.

He explains his version of contemplation in his book. It sort of includes concentration, meditation, and wondering. It requires extreme concentration. So extreme that it does not work for me.

You need concentration so strong you can bore a hole through a brick wall.

Do you think that’s one of his strengths because he doesn’t seem to emphasize that all that much. I remember your interview with him and he seem to refer more to the necessity of discipline but like with any talented person, they don’t recognize their own talent.

[Leo Gura]

@kieranperez Ralston can definitely focus like a motherfucker. A normal human cannot focus like that without rigorous training.

That's what concentration practices are for.

[Sukhpaal]

@Leo Gura would focusing on your hand as you spoke about, count as a concentration practice? 

[Consilience]

42 minutes ago, Sukhpaal said:

would focusing on your hand as you spoke about, count as a concentration practice? 

This would count yes.

[Consilience]

So this post inspired me to go back and reread the Book of Not Knowing's section on contemplation and then really try to practice his technique.

I chose to focus my intent on discovering the truth about NOW. Interestingly enough, I did indeed have a mini enlightenment about the nature of NOW. At some point in, I think around the 40 min mark, it literally felt like my body was expanding outward and my mind had reached some sort of access concentration of no mind; it felt very mystical. And then I realized I was literally the NOW I was contemplating. Like the present moment is literally what I am... The subject of my question was actually just another way of asking "Who am I?"

After that insight reached intellectual understanding (which happened really quickly) it kind of kicked back on my monkey mind and the mini mystical state ended. I remained super aware and just continued to contemplate for the remainder of the meditation.  

Edited December 1, 2018 by Consilience

[Sukhpaal]

@Consilience thanks

[kieranperez]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

So this post inspired me to go back and reread the Book of Not Knowing's section on contemplation and then really try to practice his technique.

I chose to focus my intent on discovering the truth about NOW. Interestingly enough, I did indeed have a mini enlightenment about the nature of NOW. At some point in, I think around the 40 min mark, it literally felt like my body was expanding outward and my mind had reached some sort of access concentration of no mind; it felt very mystical. And then I realized I was literally the NOW I was contemplating. Like the present moment is literally what I am... The subject of my question was actually just another way of asking "Who am I?"

After that insight reached intellectual understanding (which happened really quickly) it kind of kicked back on my monkey mind and the mini mystical state ended. I remained super aware and just continued to contemplate for the remainder of the meditation.  

Why don’t my posts get me enlightened?! LOL

YOURE WELCOME!  lol jk

[Consilience]

29 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Why don’t my posts get me enlightened?! LOL

YOURE WELCOME!  lol jk

Haha nah dude you get full credit. Thanks for posting!