The Illusion of Free Will, is life scripted?

[Bauer1977]

By knowing, it will move me closer to my goal. By finally realizing that time is an illusion, and gaining a genuine understanding of how that is possible triggered an enlightened experience in me and forever changed my perspective. And in doing so elevated it to a new level. I suspect that definitively resolving the issue of free will would do the same, perhaps more.

I suspect only someone with a very advanced level of enlightenment will be able to answer this question with certainty. But I know I am not the first to explore the idea, so I am curious what conclusions others have come up with. Finding out the answer would mean a great deal to me. I am unsure how you can have the idea that the answer to this query is meaningless.... but you are entitled to that perspective if it serves you. That particular conclusion doesn't serve me unfortunately.

[non_nothing]

Did not read the whole thread, you have to get the ego death by first to make sense of it, without this, your ego will try to understand it as it is, like you have no free-will and ego tries to wrap itself around the idea of illusion. What I'd offer is ignore the question continue pursuing ego-death

[purerogue]

12 minutes ago, Bauer1977 said:

By knowing, it will move me closer to my goal. By finally realizing that time is an illusion, and gaining a genuine understanding of how that is possible triggered an enlightened experience in me and forever changed my perspective. And in doing so elevated it to a new level. I suspect that definitively resolving the issue of free will would do the same, perhaps more.

I suspect only someone with a very advanced level of enlightenment will be able to answer this question with certainty. But I know I am not the first to explore the idea, so I am curious what conclusions others have come up with. Finding out the answer would mean a great deal to me. I am unsure how you can have the idea that the answer to this query is meaningless.... but you are entitled to that perspective if it serves you. That particular conclusion doesn't serve me unfortunately.

Sorry , I just can't explain you why it is meaningless, it question that is to hard to explain to you .

You still do not understand why coin with to sides becomes coin with no sides, as second answer is no answer and first answer is just meaningless and serves no purpose after you take second answer out of equation.

Edited November 28, 2018 by purerogue

[Bauer1977]

19 minutes ago, zambize said:

Because of quantum mechanics the world runs on probability, I'm not going to get too deep into the free will debate, but there is no script.  The script is a bunch of probabilities of different realities if that makes you feel any better.  It's a mystery what you're going to get

I like this answer.... thanks. I read a bit on quantum mechanics 15 years ago. I think I will refresh my understanding on it again. I can see how that could work.

[WindInTheLeaf]

1 hour ago, Bauer1977 said:

This conversation that you guys are having has nothing to do with the original question.... if we have no free will and if time is an illusion as well, does that then confirm that our life's are scripted before they even begin? Those who reach enlightenment in this life time were meant to, and those who don't, weren't. The state of things in the world is exactly as its scripted to be. Nothing can be affected by information that wasn't already pre-determined to be affected by this type of information. That appears to be the situation as far as I can tell. We appear to all be on a pre-determined path, forever and ever....

Right as you may be, who wrote your script?

Although the discussion between Joseph and Outer may seem to be off track, it is here in your post about how things happen as they are destined to. Perhaps there is something there you are not seeing? Or perhaps it was just meant to be here for you to write this wonderful reply. 

You raise a great question about whether those who reach enlightenment this lifetime were destined to from the very beginning of time. If this is so, then all there is to do is relax in being who you are as of now and let yourself be moved to authenticity by just letting go of all those beliefs that you should do something you are not already doing.

When you write this, that you have no free will, how do you feel? If it feels right then it is probably right for you. If it leaves a sour taste in your mouth then let it go. You see, by that very notion you put forth, whatever is is right? So if you feel like this is bullshit then it is rightfully so, for you. Just be careful not to believe what is right for you is right for another. This can cause much frustration for you and whomever you try to convert to your truth.

Regarding this reply. Whatever makes sense is for you to find sense in. Don't struggle to find meaning where there is none. 

[tsuki]

There is no free will, but it does not mean that everything is scripted.
Even if there is a universal rule set for reality, then it does not mean that we can predict what will happen.
There are systems that are chaotic in nature, which makes them practically unpredictable in the long run.
The accuracy of prediction of such systems quickly decays after a certain period of time and is dependent on how accurately you can describe its initial state. In those cases - in order to have the 'script', you have to measure everything, perfectly and compute the result faster than reality changes.

Not to mention that such a computer would have to model its own interactions with the outside world.
Not a chance.

Edited November 28, 2018 by tsuki

[purerogue]

I seriously do not understand how to get to you so you understand that this question is pointless, 

Scripted-Does not matter if you know about it, it is already decided

Not scripted-Does not matter because if it would be  decided, it would not matter. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by purerogue

[Nahm]

@Bauer1977 In about a month my kids will get showered with gifts. It will be awesome. It will be magically awesome, because they have no idea where the presence come from. They will just enjoy the gifts, and have fun. They don’t think about the past and present. They don’t know anything.  They’re just kids. 

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Nahm it's funny how kids mirror adults acting as if they know and thus take on their problems as their own, while adults might have their problems solved mirroring the kids and thus return to childhood's bliss.

Edited November 28, 2018 by WindInTheLeaf

[ground]

3 hours ago, Bauer1977 said:

Given that free will is an illusion, and I am fully onboard with that idea. Does that then mean that our individual lives are scripted from conception, and even including conception? If we truly are nothing but awareness, and every thought and decision is given to us, what role do we have in our own growth, development and enlightenment? If there really is zero control, coupled with the knowledge that time is also an illusion, doesn't it seem as though every moment of creation within the illusion of duality would have to be completely scripted throughout all time? How could it be any other way given the laws and structure of the universe?

All these questions and assumptions are based on an inappropriate view which is caused by inappropriate philosophy of ontology. It is simply inappropriate wording to say "only awareness exists" or "everything is illusion except awareness". In many minds such and similar wordings seem to evoke a view of ontological monism which is extremely counterproductive in terms of enlightenment.

you cannot overcome dualism through affirming one side of this dualism and negating the other side. you have to see that this "it has to be either X or non-X" is exactly the deeply ingrained habit that fosters delusion.

Of course there is free will but free will is not absolute but relative. Relative to what? Relative to the world of appearances and ideas (incl. 'I', 'my', 'mine') which appears as if truly existing to ordinary mind. And there is also absence of free will which is relative too. How that? Because of habits accumulated in the context of the world of appearances and ideas which can determine behaviour, emotions etc. temporarily.

And in relation to this world of appearances and ideas you can undermine habits and gain more control, enlarge the relative free will's sphere of activity.

But you can also transcend this world of appearances and ideas, transcend ordinary mind and enter a sphere where concepts of 'control', 'free will', 'I', 'my', 'mine' etc, all concepts, are absent and even if they arise then they are completely translucent and empty as if present and absent simultaneously.

[Nahm]

@WindInTheLeaf ?

[ajasatya]

yes and no. deal with it

[Forestluv]

A self likes to negotiate for relevance.

[Shin]

4 hours ago, Bauer1977 said:

Given that free will is an illusion, and I am fully onboard with that idea. Does that then mean that our individual lives are scripted from conception, and even including conception? If we truly are nothing but awareness, and every thought and decision is given to us, what role do we have in our own growth, development and enlightenment? If there really is zero control, coupled with the knowledge that time is also an illusion, doesn't it seem as though every moment of creation within the illusion of duality would have to be completely scripted throughout all time? How could it be any other way given the laws and structure of the universe?

How do you know anything about that ?

How could you know anything about something you never experienced ?

[Flammable]

1 hour ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

Right as you may be, who wrote your script?

Although the discussion between Joseph and Outer may seem to be off track, it is here in your post about how things happen as they are destined to. Perhaps there is something there you are not seeing? Or perhaps it was just meant to be here for you to write this wonderful reply. 

You raise a great question about whether those who reach enlightenment this lifetime were destined to from the very beginning of time. If this is so, then all there is to do is relax in being who you are as of now and let yourself be moved to authenticity by just letting go of all those beliefs that you should do something you are not already doing.

When you write this, that you have no free will, how do you feel? If it feels right then it is probably right for you. If it leaves a sour taste in your mouth then let it go. You see, by that very notion you put forth, whatever is is right? So if you feel like this is bullshit then it is rightfully so, for you. Just be careful not to believe what is right for you is right for another. This can cause much frustration for you and whomever you try to convert to your truth.

Regarding this reply. Whatever makes sense is for you to find sense in. Don't struggle to find meaning where there is none. 

Right in the center. Good one, my friend, everybody should read and integrate this - or whoever finds sense in it. Cannot be forced on everyone haha 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Flammable

[Shadowraix]

The illusion of free will comes from not knowing. Which is why it is ever present in your relative perspective.

From the absolute perspective, everything already is occurring simultaneously. So yes its all scripted and predetermined. But yet God can still experience this scripted story genuinely through you.

[Bauer1977]

Some really good posts here. Thanks everyone for your input. I agree with a lot of what I read, and not so much with some of the other comments. I appreciate all of them though. This query of mine is something I am genuinely trying to work out. I obviously can't make everyone understand why it matters. And I accept that one day perhaps it won't matter anymore. But for the time being, it is something I hope to find a resolution to insomuch that it satisfies my need.

Cheers

[ZZZZ]

Watch Leo's latest 10 Ox video. It sounds like you are trying to throw away your snare before catching the rabbit.

[Strikr]

the perfect enlightement is being an adult-child.

not a child.

love all the gift of god with will.

nature is will, not knowing is growth. after growth there is growth

Edited November 28, 2018 by Strikr

[purerogue]

1 hour ago, Bauer1977 said:

Some really good posts here. Thanks everyone for your input. I agree with a lot of what I read, and not so much with some of the other comments. I appreciate all of them though. This query of mine is something I am genuinely trying to work out. I obviously can't make everyone understand why it matters. And I accept that one day perhaps it won't matter anymore. But for the time being, it is something I hope to find a resolution to insomuch that it satisfies my need.

Cheers

Bauer1977

Again , my comment answers your question, it just takes some thought process to understand it, it is very difficult thing to comprehend , because you have to look from few points at the same time .

Your question itself is pointless to you, simply you finding answer for this question serves no meaning to you, it has 0 meaning for you .

It does not matter which answer you chose , both serve nothing.

If you would ask how  one , or other side works without you being attached to question, then it makes sense, but as soon as you attach you , it loses all its meaning.