eye movement while meditating

[kobe_ra]

hey,

intro (skip):

i have been meditating for two months already and i haven't skipped a single day and im still all hyped up, but my last week does not feel as progressive as before. so i decided to move to "do nothing" technique.

start reading here:

my question applies to both, do nothing meditation and (i prolly dont remember the name correctly) strong determinism sitting.

in both cases i am supposed to sit without any movement. what i feel like not explained is eye movement.

i mean, or course i can blink, but what about stare? should i stare at one object right in front of me, or can i look at different objects unless i move my head? for example today i was staring at plain white wall and my eyes felt really weird. im just not sure about that.

other subject:

i just realized i have one more question:

is mindfulness practice a type of meditation? cuz i meditate daily 20+ minutes, but leo told to practice mindfulness daily for 20 minutes too. is it like i should take 40 minutes a day now or is mindfulness really just type of meditation and i can go for example one month with do nothing, other one with mindfulness?

thanks for answear

[deci belle]

Surprisingly, none of the career quiet-sitters have sought to help you (yet), kobe.

Most people consider meditating with eyes open much more difficult than with eyes closed. I would recommend having the eyes open just a bit.

I would not recommend that you use your eyes to do anything. Relax everything inside and outside; forget inside and outside, and just observe mind without deliberation. Completely dispense with rambling mental commentary without trying to stop it by force of will. Just intend to notice it along with everything else that occurs (or not).

The ancient admonition is to not be afraid of thoughts, just be afraid of not noticing thoughts unawares. That's what rudimentary reformative meditation practice is. It's PRACTICE. It's practicing a subtle awareness of the mind that moves by the mind that shines.

Don't make the mistake and think that there are two minds. The scattered mind IS the shining mind. It's an inconceivability.

After a long long time, you'll find out less and less as the mind-ground clarifies.

Whether your eyes are open or closed or somewhere in-between isn't as important as noticing thoughts as they occur without entertaining further commentary relative to habitual ingrained psychological activity.

There are many ways to approach subtle observation of mind. Sitting meditation is effective practice for some people.

I've never practiced "just sitting" myself.

The point of reformative practice is to discover the means to see what underlies conditioned awareness and then endeavor to apply that potential in the midst of everyday ordinary situation by using impersonal subtle observation to fluidly meet the requirements of the moment without following habitual ego-reflective psychological patterns. In doing so, self-refinement is accelerated.

[kobe_ra]

thanks, i actually realized that what i see is not important in that state as i was meditating today. it was funny, this do nothing technique tho. as i am not letting go of thoughts consciously i get to reach states when i actually have clear mind. but that lasts only a glimpse of second. right afterwards a thought comes "i am there yay" which makes me not there anymore. anyway, im aware that this process takes time so im just happy to watch my mind

[deci belle]

The thoughts coming back at you is fine, kobe! Just be present to see them as they arise, so the ordinary conditioned mental state of letting thoughts arise unawares is forever discontinued. Never ever try to stop thoughts from arising— you will suffer mental illness!!

Just let the thoughts arise as you watch them with an unbending intent that continues observation with an unbroken subtle quality of attention.

After a long long time, the arising of random thought will lessen somewhat. Eventually, there will come a time when you witness long periods of no random arising of mental activity. But this is not yet wonderful. This is what many students of meditation mistake for their shining mind— it's not!

You don't actually need to "let go" of random arising of thought because immediate knowledge of arising thought is already enough. The ancient admonition is; use concentration to gain insight, once you gain insight, relax into it by not pursuing insight once you realize seeing: seeing insight.

In taoist alchemical terminology, using concentration to gain insight is "advancing the fire." Once you reach sufficiency, "withdraw the fire."

The key to "advancing" your effective developmental state of subtle observation is to "let go" of deliberate conscious observation once the reformative habit has begun to stabilize, in order to allow something the ancients call potential to arise. It is not other than your own mind right now~ but other than that, it cannot be described.

In the beginning, seeing random thought is termed "insight", because the shining mind and random mental activity are mixed in together. After a long time, the arising of thought can be properly referred to as "potential", but I can't say why. It's just the way it is and nobody knows why. There is no why.

When insight  begins to constitute the arising of potential, through one's "letting go" of deliberate meditative observation, the same rule applies: advance the fire, then, when sufficiency is attained, withdraw the fire. Do this over and over in the course of observation.

Do not entertain anticipatory longing or ambitions of spiritual wonderment, or you will never get anywhere and will end up as one of those who sit on the zazen (meditation) seat for 20 or 30 years without seeing potential or passing through self-conscious mental activity.

I just wanted to make it clear that meditation, per se, is not good. There is a point to it, but that result must be discovered on one's own without regard to "progress" relative to the thinker, knower, and liver of life. It is Mind alone, selfless— miraculously awake.

Perhaps you will stumble upon an ancient book I have heard of called "Stopping and Seeing."

 

 

ed note: typo 1st sentence

Edited November 29, 2018 by deci belle

[ground]

On 26.11.2018 at 10:35 PM, kobe_ra said:

i mean, or course i can blink, but what about stare? should i stare at one object right in front of me, or can i look at different objects unless i move my head? for example today i was staring at plain white wall and my eyes felt really weird. im just not sure about that.

Depends what your teacher told you.

I would recommend to have the eyes wide open without focusing anything. Here relaxation is required. If objects are located in front of you then in order to avoid the eyes' focusing reflex which would attach the mind to the object one should 'focus on' the space before an object, i.e. stare into space. Thus immersion into awareness may occur and although the eyes are open and there may be objects in front one will not perceive anything  - mere nonconceptual radiance.

Edited November 29, 2018 by ground