What does the OX respresent

[Shakazulu]

I have a feeling the OX is a symbolization for something. I'm assuming there's a being which arises 

[Nahm]

“Ox” represents something which is unimaginable. You could read a thousand books about it, but when you see it, It’s as if you never heard about it once. 

[Shakazulu]

@Nahm I'm guessing because nothing on our earth looks like it 

[Nahm]

@Shakazulu Could you imagine something which looks like things on earth?

[Rilles]

Consciousness

[zambize]

My advice would be to stop assuming,  i received what must have been just a whiff of the ox last night and going into that I had 0 expectations or ideas about non-duality.  If you haven't had the experience, and it's not something that can be fully described with words, then you can see how people who haven't had the experience and use words to theorize about it are really really really prone to getting false expectations about what non-duality is the experience. I think these false expectations can create barriers and cause you to look and look in one corner of your mind you've convinced yourself must house god.  This may or may not be the case, I'm no Zen master, but there is certainly some probability it's true and it seems reasonable to me from my experience.  With that in mind, I really recommend you just follow whatever daily meditation you do and continue to develop yourself until you can tell us from experience what this Ox symbolizes and whether some being arises, good luck!

[Shakazulu]

@zambize something did arise before, that's what I'm questioning lol. But thank you 

[Shakazulu]

@Nahm lol you confused me here but I guess I can because I've seen things(objects) on this planet before @Rilles  interesting ?

[Nahm]

@Shakazulu Right! 

So that ain’t it. 

It’s UNIMAGINABLE.

Try to imagine it again?

 

[Forestluv]

@Shakazulu At this stage, it might be helpful to contemplate "Everything / Nothing". If you imagine Everything, there is ONE Everything. There is no thing. Any thing you imagine is within Everything. So Everything = No Thing = Nothing.

At early stages, the concept of "Everything" seems overly simplistic and is overlooked and dismissed. Yet at intermediate stages, it becomes deeply profound. Some of my most uncomfortable realizations were facing "Everything / Nothing", through direct experience.

Understanding and embodying Everything / Nothing is an enormous step forward along the path IME.

To integrate this with Nahm's comment: Any thing you imagine is within Everything. So any image isn't It. It is unimaginable. Everything really really really means Everything.

[Shakazulu]

@Nahm @Serotoninluv note to self, there's much work to be done. 

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Shakazulu said:

@Nahm @Serotoninluv note to self, there's much work to be done. 

In terms of Leo's Ox video, you are seeing the tracks of the Ox. Don't give up. Once you "see" the Ox in your direct experience, it will rock your world.

[SoonHei]

@Serotoninluv one thing

 

I try to understand it in a way. Tell me what part am i missing?

Everything is one thing... Whatever you imagine isnt it because what you imagining is a part of it, and part cannot capture the whole

 

I dont understand the " = " 

 

Why does it equal nothing?

I try think and it seemed to make sense that everything is contained in "nothing/no-thing"

 

"Contained in..."

I dont quite grasp how it "equals" to nothing instead?

Everything = nothing ?

[Forestluv]

@SoonHei You are still seeing duality in "Everything". I.e. parts within a whole. A helpful step for me was. . . If there is One Everything, there cannot be any thing. So, Everything equals No Thing. That got me to a transitional state. I'm still embodying the depth of Everything = Nothing. Form = Formless. It goes much deeper than I had imagined.

[SoonHei]

@Serotoninluv hmmmm still can't quite seem to grasp it...

Is this a major step in the path to become aware of ? And quite a difficult one? I havent done much deeper inquiry yet about it so just wondering...

 

And also whay are some.implications of embodying this realizations? Is this a realization alongside seeing of no-self illusion? Or a bit lower on the scale?

[Hellspeed]

5 hours ago, Shakazulu said:

I have a feeling the OX is a symbolization for something. I'm assuming there's a being which arises 

Heart. 

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, SoonHei said:

@Serotoninluv hmmmm still can't quite seem to grasp it...

Is this a major step in the path to become aware of ? And quite a difficult one? I havent done much deeper inquiry yet about it so just wondering...

And also whay are some.implications of embodying this realizations? Is this a realization alongside seeing of no-self illusion? Or a bit lower on the scale?

There are a variety of pointers. The "Everything / Nothing" pointer is commonly used by nonduality teachers. It can be a really strong pointer for some minds. It is related to understanding distinctions. 

It's hard to place no-self awakenings and Everything/Nothing awakenings on a relative hierarchy or linear timeline. I've had partial awakenings to no-self and Everything/Nothing. The deepest glimpse I've had was Mu - which is prior to any concepts or ideas of no-self or self.

[Leo Gura]

This was explicitly explained in the video.

There is no mystery about it.

[Shakazulu]

@Serotoninluv " the tracks of the OX " ? Mind speaking on this

[Joseph Maynor]

That's for you to find!  You've got to find the ox for yourself.  Nobody can do that work for you or tell you what that is.  That's why Enlightenment is a very personal journey.  People can point things out to you in Enlightenment Work, but nobody can really help you discover the ox.  You gotta jump in there and do it yourself.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Joseph Maynor