I HATE Stage Green

[Sockrattes]

1 hour ago, XYZ said:

As many on the forum have pointed out, Green appears to manifest as the most feminine stage of development, and this creates issues like OP describes. Perhaps this is because of the tendency to jump into stage Green beliefs/lifestyles without fully integrating Orange, which tends to skew more masculine in contrast.

This assumption is based on a very limited definition of masculinity.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Sockrattes

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Emerald said:

@XYZ 

In early Green, women tend to like to buck the gender roles of the past because there is a sense of freedom from the confines of gender roles being like a prison. So, it is much easier for women to ignore the impact of gender and polarity, as there feels like there is a lot more to lose from identifying with femaleness and femininity.  There is power to be regained in divorcing one's self from the feminine gender role, as it is understood in early Green that femininity=prison. So, this discomfort tends to jettison women into early Green before men get there. Liberation is easier when the alternative sucks.

Do you think women start bucking gender roles of the past at stage Orange? At stage Blue, the traditional gender role is to raise children, be a housekeeper and be submissive to an authoritarian man. Stage Orange women need to buck this role to have develop personal autonomy, personal goals, enter the workforce, dress as they want etc.

So, at stage Green - does bucking of the Orange female gender role ensue? I.e. the woman does not have to play a "feminine Orange" role anymore?

20 minutes ago, Emerald said:

So, men don't often see the power of transitioning to Green. The issue here is that the idea of masculinity tends to supplant their actual masculinity at this stage. Their actual masculinity can't be found until men liberate themselves from the norms of the past in late Green or early Yellow.

But a mature Green man, in later Green, will start to get in touch with his actual subtle masculinity that is a separate thing entirely from cultural notions of the masculine. For this, you can imagine a man who is embodying the masculine effortlessly without attachment and in a very subtle way that radiates from him and is not try-hard or immature. But this will be unlikely to be fully realized until he starts to make the jump to Yellow. 

  Regarding what you call "Power". . . An upper Orange male will experience resistance to Green masculinity because Orange males will see it as "weak" and that they are giving up power. Yet, they cannot comprehend the new form of Green masculine power they will embody if they transition through Green. So, it appears as losing. . . Yes?

As more females transition through Green and into Yellow, they will be less attracted to traditionally masculine "alpha males". They will be more attracted to Green and Yellow level masculinity. I think we are seeing this now. Traditionally masculine men are seeing techies, hipsters, snowflakes, yoga, politically correct males getting in on their alpha male action. These wussy Green men are becoming more successful with women, which causes confusion, anxiety and frustration in blue/orange men (hence an attraction to speakers like Jordan Peterson). Yes?

[GenuinePerspectiveXC]

4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Do you think women start bucking gender roles of the past at stage Orange? 

People do, which is fine but eventually comes back around because:

1) most men and women genuinely like gender roles, believe it or not

2) we're different, so gender roles are usually natural... which is a stage yellow concept.

4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Do you think women start bucking gender roles of the past at stage Orange? At stage Blue, the traditional gender role is to raise children, be a housekeeper and be submissive to an authoritarian man. Stage Orange women need to buck this role to have develop personal autonomy, personal goals, enter the workforce, dress as they want etc.

It's actually most natural for grandparents to raise children (healthy purple). 

Stage blue people have a deep understanding of shadow stage red feminine and masculine.  If you read Sperm Wars on the booklist, you would understand exactly what stage red feminine is.

You're right, can you imagine Hillary Clinton (stage Orange) with a penis?  You could, but most people don't like it, regardless of vMeme stage.

4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Regarding what you call "Power". . . An upper Orange male will experience resistance to Green masculinity because Orange males will see it as "weak" and that they are giving up power. Yet, they cannot comprehend the new form of Green masculine power they will embody if they transition through Green. So, it appears as losing. . . Yes?

wtf do you expect Emerald to know about Orange vMeme wizards?

4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

As more females transition through Green and into Yellow, they will be less attracted to traditionally masculine "alpha males". They will be more attracted to Green and Yellow level masculinity. I think we are seeing this now. Traditionally masculine men are seeing techies, hipsters, snowflakes, yoga, politically correct males getting in on their alpha male action. These wussy Green men are becoming more successful with women, which causes confusion, anxiety and frustration in blue/orange men (hence an attraction to speakers like Jordan Peterson). Yes?

Actually, if men drop their passion (red), principles (blue), and value (orange), they become less desirable, even if they have a strong sense of compassion which would just result in being a 'nice guy' if the other stages of the spiral are ignored.

Edited November 27, 2018 by GenuinePerspectiveXC

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

Do you think women start bucking gender roles of the past at stage Orange? At stage Blue, the traditional gender role is to raise children, be a housekeeper and be submissive to an authoritarian man. Stage Orange women need to buck this role to have develop personal autonomy, personal goals, enter the workforce, dress as they want etc.

So, at stage Green - does bucking of the Orange female gender role ensue? I.e. the woman does not have to play a "feminine Orange" role anymore?

Stage Orange is the beginning of the gender role rejection that women engage in. But it is more of a rejection of femininity and an adoption of masculinity, at that stage. And it is based in unconscious internalized misogyny. Imagine a woman who detests the color pink, shoots guns, rejects feelings, can compete with the guys, and is a cool girl who's one of the girls who loves beer and pizza. 

At Green, however, there begins to be a questioning of gender roles and their efficacy in general in response to the awareness of the LGBT community and a growing awareness of internalized misogyny as a phenomenon. So, at Green, it is less of a cleaving to masculinity as with Orange, but a rejection fo the existence of masculine and feminine in general... and an unconscious falling back into the masculine principle unknowingly.

And yes. Both are necessary transitions that allow women to transcend the confines of the traditional gender roles. This is key to allowing the emergence of the Divine Feminine within human society. They are part of the liberation process, but that will have to be shed in later stages.

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

Regarding what you call "Power". . . An upper Orange male will experience resistance to Green masculinity because Orange males will see it as "weak" and that they are giving up power. Yet, they cannot comprehend the new form of Green masculine power they will embody if they transition through Green. So, it appears as losing. . . Yes?

Exactly. And there is an early part of the Green transition that is genuinely a place of not knowing how to express in a masculine way. There is a resistance to the traditional masculine way of doing things as there is a dawning awareness that masculine preference has caused a lot of issues and that a lot of it is very toxic.  So, a lot of guy's over-correct and find it difficult to own and express their masculinity because they don't want to be part of the problem. They are not aware that their traditional ideas of masculinity and manhood are just ideas, and that the actual energy of the masculine is something that can be expressed in other ways that are not destructive. So, the transition to Green is genuinely a bit scary. And men who value their masculinity above all else will likely never make the transition.

"As more females transition through Green and into Yellow, they will be less attracted to traditionally masculine "alpha males". They will be more attracted to Green and Yellow level masculinity. I think we are seeing this now. Traditionally masculine men are seeing techies, hipsters, snowflakes, yoga, politically correct males getting in on their alpha male action. These wussy Green men are becoming more successful with women, which causes confusion, anxiety and frustration in blue/orange men (hence an attraction to speakers like Jordan Peterson). Yes?"

If I look at the type of men that I'm interested in, I would say that what you say is true. But I wouldn't describe these men as un-masculine or in denial of masculinity as men are at early Green. I do genuinely have a lack of attraction to early Green men who are in resistance to their masculinity. But I also don't find them as tiring as Orange men who are obsessed with a limited version of masculinity who feel like they're pretending every step of the way. The former I lack attraction to, but the latter I find directly unattractive and have an aversion to. 

So, it the men I tend to find attractive, their masculinity is definitely a major facet of what I find attractive in them. But I would describe their masculinity as subtle and unpretended. It just emanates from them through a congruence with their essential nature without the distortion of societal notions... but with the ability to engage in both gender roles or neither without wavering from his natural energetic signature... which is mostly masculine with some feminine, both integrated. So, his masculinity emanates from an integrity with himself as a naturally masculine oriented person, as opposed to an obligation to perform particular versions of masculinity and wearing a mask. 

And there is still a hint of the "dominance" and strength that is attractive in the alpha male archetype. The alpha male becomes a latent aspect of the highly developed man who is highly developed but still has an energetic congruence with his animalistic nature. But the dominance is not domineering and just exists as a background potential... like a weapon in the holster of a really responsible person or a lion with a superior lion-tamer. Strength and the ability to protect if necessary are still attractive qualities in a man. 

The core instincts still exist that polarity attracts. So, most women will be attracted to men who are centered in their masculine energy. But it won't be a brutish or immature masculinity. It will be subtle.

To allude to some men who embody this, I always imagine someone like Rupert Spira or Adyashanti when I think about subtle and unpretended masculinity. It simply is what is there, but they aren't trying to perform it. And it may seem strange to mention these men as attractive, but I find them to both be very much so. 

But most of my strongest examples are men that I know from real-life who are just highly developed people who have a high degree of awareness and integrity with themselves. 

 

[Wyze]

@Emerald

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Wyze said:

@Emerald

Yes... 

[Wyze]

LOL I got blocked by 2nd post (time limits), and for some reason couldn't edit the previous post.

Anyway...

I am interested in what your views on Femininity and Masculinity in females in stages Orange and Green; and how it manifest?

In my personal experience; I found that when I was in Orange, I was "feminine "- in dresscode, speech, behaviour etc. But I was not true feminine or empathetic. It was a cold calculated version. I was the Femme Fatale.

I found that as I moved into Green; it was because now I actively express and embrace masculine way of behaviour, speech, and dresscode. If you see me now, I look like a boy. But deep down inside, it is protecting the empathy and wounds. The more I feel attacked by masculine expressions the more masculine I become.

And because of this; I started question the "set in stone" binary gender roles and attraction - which is a scary paradigm shift.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Wyze said:

LOL I got blocked by 2nd post (time limits), and for some reason couldn't edit the previous post.

Anyway...

I am interested in what your views on Femininity and Masculinity in females in stages Orange and Green; and how it manifest?

In my personal experience; I found that when I was in Orange, I was "feminine "- in dresscode, speech, behaviour etc. But I was not true feminine or empathetic. It was a cold calculated version. I was the Femme Fatale.

I found that as I moved into Green; it was because now I actively express and embrace masculine way of behaviour, speech, and dresscode. If you see me now, I look like a boy. But deep down inside, it is protecting the empathy and wounds. The more I feel attacked by masculine expressions the more masculine I become.

And because of this; I started question the "set in stone" binary gender roles and attraction - which is a scary paradigm shift.

When I was more in an Orange POV, as a child and teenager, my idea of empowerment came from the idea of the rejection of all things feminine and girly and the ability to relate to and be "one of the guys." It was a given to me that femininity was weak, and that masculinity was superior. And I was quite misogynistic as a late elementary school kid. I appreciated the thought that I was some kind of special girl that was the loophole... the only cool girl that was as good as a boy. So, on one hand I was always trying to prove myself. But I also wanted a feminine facade, so that I could be respected in that way as well. So, that I could be male on the inside and female on the outside. 

When I started to transition into Green thinking as a teenager, I still had the majority Orange. But my misogynistic views lessened and I found other masculine girls (or simply girls who were not traditionally feminine) as close personal friends. So, my prejudice was toward femininity instead of girls. I respected girls who had a well-developed masculine side and felt at home with the gender non-conforming... especially as a bisexual woman. But I still had this idea that I was special because of my man-on-the-inside but woman-on-the-outside dynamic. And I did get quite a bit of respect compared to other girls my age... so it added to my ego identification with my superiority over feminine women. And at the time, I could have totally started the Red Pill movement, as so many of their beliefs I had at the time. So, even in that transition to early Green, there was still a ton of resistance to the feminine.

And as I embraced Green more and more, I became comfortable in deconstructing the notions of gender and masculinity and femininity altogether. My favorite phrase at the time was "It's a social construct" as I believed everything to be a social construct. I thought that personalities essentially sprang forth from circumstance and that no amount of nature was inherently there. I had a very "tabula rasa" idea of how people were, except in convenient circumstances when explaining homosexuality's validity to homophobes. 

And I consciously rejected most gender norms, and say others that participated in gender norms as dull and "boxed in"... a slave to a social construct. And even though this resistance, I later recognized as a barrier, it helped me grow. I was able to skate circles around others who were so attached to their gender identity. I allowed myself any expression and was very experimental with my appearance, creative endeavors, and life in general. Some of my most useful personal development happened at that time.

But underneath those Green and Orange ideas, there was still lurking a natural feminine energy that was my most dominant energy. And also lurking below was the misogyny and hatred of the feminine that I had learned over the years. So, there was always an internal conflict for me, that even continues into present day. 

It was only when I had my experiences of ego transcendence that I experienced the Divine Feminine and all the femininity that I had been repressing since childhood. I had related femininity to weakness because of subtle conditionings over the course of my life from the media, friends, family, school, church, etc. I didn't even notice it as it was happening, as I consciously always believed in the equality of the genders even in my most misogynistic periods. So, I had learned to reject my most dominant energy, that cut me off so much from major aspects of myself and reality. 

Ever since then, I've been taking a more Green/Yellow approach to looking at issues of gender, feminine/masculine, Yin/Yang, etc. And seeing how this issue intones on many different levels into reality. 

As for your Orange coming off as feminine (assuming you're a woman), this is very common for women to get really obsessed with looks at this stage. They want to be seen as feminine because, at Orange, the woman's primary societal value is as a sexual commodity and her secondary value as a worker and competitor in capitalist society. Women at this stage will try to embody both, as I did, if they are interested in social status. Plus, the desire to be seen as feminine does cross over the sexual instinct as well. 

Perhaps your transition to Green illuminated this unhealthy dynamic and you became protective of yourself, because you realized that you and society was seeing you as sexual currency primarily. So, a masculine facade can help avoid that kind of attention as well as your tendency to see yourself in a limiting and dehumanizing way. Also, looking masculine is a way to seem more competent and less threatening simultaneously, even if it has a marginalizing effect to a certain degree. Men are less likely to project unpleasant things onto you, as they are unlikely to notice you that much. It's a trade off of greater discomforts for lesser discomforts.

But none of it is yet embracing true feminine power as you're just trying to mitigate various blocks to the feminine being able to be integrated into your conscious awareness and by extension the collective consciousness. That takes a lot of letting go and the cultivation of receptivity, emotional intelligence, and intuition.

I hope this helps. I definitely assumed that you're a woman, so my answer was based on that assumption. If it's not the case, my response may differ.

 

[purerogue]

Can someone explain to me why females are so obsessed with emotions , instinct, astrology, energies, I know that there are guys that are into it to , but there are way more female

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

@Emerald

Reading you is always a pleasure. You put into words what my instinct tells me but I've never verbalized for myself.

And I can relate with 97% of your experience.

 

Thank you! I'm glad that it resonates!

[Emerald]

9 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Can someone explain to me why females are so obsessed with emotions , instinct, astrology, energies, I know that there are guys that are into it to , but there are way more female

These all tie in with the feminine principle. So, women (who are most often predominantly feminine), will often gravitate to these topics. The Divine Feminine has a lot to do with spirituality embodied in matter and the dualistic world. So, it is focused on form as opposed to formlessness. So, cycles in the stars, energetic realities, emotions, and instinct are all part of the phenomenal world that have a close link to the spirit within matter.

[thehero]

Stage green is beautiful as fuck. Ur dumb 

Green women are the LITERAL BEST 

Edited November 27, 2018 by thehero

[Wyze]

@Emerald

Have to say all your observations are very true (yes I am a female). And thank you for taking the time to get back to me.

I'm starting to recognize the limitation of "looking and behaving masculine" have as well.

I've observed that the lower expression of femininity tend to attract a lot of "dominate personalities" (lower expression of masculinity) and hence the move to emulate males for protection. But that itself also causes a lot of friction with both males and females. - I think not following social scripts can have some really challenging effects. I've had males picking fights with me; females to shun me etc

As of the moment; I'm doing a lot of introspection, and very experimental in my expression and things I do. Really practicing my intuition and allowing myself to feel emotions (lol yeah... that sounded weird) - What would you suggest those of us with too much masculinity, how to navigate this world? as I feel this masculine expression is important and I need to go through this.

I just finished your video on Divine Femininity - I really enjoyed your new perspective as to why expression of femininity was breed out of society for so long. However I thought that was more a recent thing due to the rise in thinking culture and mass education; but yeah that was a shock.

I am wondering what you said that you've experienced Divine Femininity; what do you mean by that?

[Butters]

@Emeraldthanks for your contributions here, very interesting stuff cause I've been so confused by this whole gender thing lately lol 

[Rilles]

@Butters Hey Butters have you read the Spiral Dynamics book? Highly recommended if you want to go really deep. ??

Edited November 27, 2018 by Rilles

[Shadowraix]

People may present seemingly green ideas but the motives definitely aren't always green. You look at the actions and it reveals lower stage thinking.

[Forestluv]

12 hours ago, Butters said:

@Emeraldthanks for your contributions here, very interesting stuff cause I've been so confused by this whole gender thing lately lol 

@Emerald is a Gem  

[Emerald]

21 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Emerald is a Gem  

Thank you! 

[Emerald]

13 hours ago, Butters said:

@Emeraldthanks for your contributions here, very interesting stuff cause I've been so confused by this whole gender thing lately lol 

You're welcome! I'm glad that it helps.

[Emerald]

13 hours ago, Wyze said:

@Emerald

Have to say all your observations are very true (yes I am a female). And thank you for taking the time to get back to me.

I'm starting to recognize the limitation of "looking and behaving masculine" have as well.

I've observed that the lower expression of femininity tend to attract a lot of "dominate personalities" (lower expression of masculinity) and hence the move to emulate males for protection. But that itself also causes a lot of friction with both males and females. - I think not following social scripts can have some really challenging effects. I've had males picking fights with me; females to shun me etc

As of the moment; I'm doing a lot of introspection, and very experimental in my expression and things I do. Really practicing my intuition and allowing myself to feel emotions (lol yeah... that sounded weird) - What would you suggest those of us with too much masculinity, how to navigate this world? as I feel this masculine expression is important and I need to go through this.

I just finished your video on Divine Femininity - I really enjoyed your new perspective as to why expression of femininity was breed out of society for so long. However I thought that was more a recent thing due to the rise in thinking culture and mass education; but yeah that was a shock.

I am wondering what you said that you've experienced Divine Femininity; what do you mean by that?

The thing that has helped me, that's a little gnarly and hard on the ego and self-esteem so I don't recommend it to everyone, is exploring deeply all the reasons why society is the way it is relative to gender. And realizing that the oppression of women wouldn't have happened across cultures unless it was an aspect of the system of human evolution. And then realizing why that pattern has started stopping. And then, observing people online and their viewpoints and seeing how the growing pains of humanity are affecting them. 

But it requires asking a lot of uncomfortable questions, to uncover our own internalized misogyny. One of the reasons why misogyny hurts so much for women, is because they believe similar things deep down due to the subtle (and sometimes overt) conditionings of being in the contemporary culture. So, when someone else says a misogynistic comment, there is a desire to push back on that comment for practical reasons... but also because there is a desire to ignore how that mindset has taken root in our own minds. So, it requires looking really deep at our own self-loathing. 

As far as masculinity, my advice is always to own whatever happens to be there. For the average woman, they will be mostly feminine with some masculine. And everyone has both. For some women, their natural signature is predominantly masculine or there is a nearly even mix of both, but this is less common. 

So, own whatever is there, and sharpen both your masculine and feminine potentials and skills. 

And realize whenever you feel uncomfortable with an aspect that is feminine or considered traditionally feminine. So, for example, in your post when you felt weird about talking about emotions and intuition, this is a sign that the ego doesn't like to associate those things with itself. It's afraid that it will be judged in some way. So, it is likely that you have a resistance to emotions and have trouble valuing and being aware of them. My impression from this is that emotional denial may be a pattern. So, making an effort to get in touch with the emotions and becoming sensitive and aware of their existence and what they are trying to communicate on the level of the body is very important. 

Think of the emotions like a dark cave with hidden treasure but many monsters. You have to go in the cave and feel around in the dark to find forgotten and undeveloped potentials and aspects of the self, and shine the light of consciousness onto them. But you will likely run into all sorts of ugly monsters down there. It's like turning over a rotting log that you've been sitting on for a long time, and you realize that it has all sorts of yucky, creepy, crawly things underneath of it. 

As for your question on the Divine Feminine, when I was having my experiences of ego transcendence there was this really clear subtle energy that was both in me and outside of me. And even in lieu of knowing anything about the spiritual and the Divine Feminine, I could only label that energy as Feminine. It was the most accurate word to describe it. But it wasn't a whole lot like the societal conception of femininity. It was erotic (in the life-giving sense) and was all about the connection to the natural world. It was like reality itself was mystical and had an intelligence about it. And it was extra apparent when I was near plants and trees. 

Experiencing this also made me realize that I had been repressing my own feminine energy because of how I conceptualized of the feminine as weak. But this was anything but weak. It was just subtle and quiet.