Ox-Herding Pictures Question - Stage 3

[Emerald]

I watched today's video, and found it to be very helpful. There are no clear road-signs on the path, so it is helpful to know how it has been for other people to get a general rule of thumb.

I pegged myself, for the most part, as a stage 3 who has glimpsed the Ox but has not yet caught it as with stage 4 with some qualities of stage 5 coming though here and there.

And I've been at this stage of letting go of attachments and conditional esteems for about half a decade or more. So, I've been there for quite a while. And I really felt like I was making progress for a long time (as I truly was). But over the course of the past couple years, I have shied away from listening to spiritual content. This is why I'm surprised that I was so compelled to watch the entire video today. Normally, I get disenchanted very easily as it feels like I'm treading over the same ground. And I feel as though I've lost the trail and run out of mind-based teachings that will help me along the path. So, I only want to share as of late.

And I think that glimpsing the ox in the way I did previously has put me on high alert for self-deception and obsessed with honesty and perception. So, I don't mind looking at myself and world in unflattering lights. And because of this willingness to look at things in this way, I receive insights quite easily, and it's a skill that I enjoy having and being able to help others with it. But this doesn't really lead through to the letting go that needs to happen for me to progress, as this insight seeking is just another way to get lost in thought relative to enlightenment. It's a useful skill at best and a parlor trick at worst.

And I am aware of this, and have been. But the awareness of this pattern, leads back into the pattern as long as I am engaged in thought. Even now, it is what I'm doing... and now... and now... and now. And I'm aware that it's escapable just through detachment from though processes, but I seem unable to resist the pull toward though in daily life. 

Anyone else, who pegs themselves at a three have this issue? If so, what have you done to make a habit of becoming mindful and detaching from thought in daily activities? 

Just looking for something to help with building the fires of motivation really...

Edited November 26, 2018 by Emerald

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

I watched today's video, and found it to be very helpful. There are no clear road-signs on the path, so it is helpful to know how it has been for other people to get a general rule of thumb.

I pegged myself, for the most part, as a stage 3 who has glimpsed the Ox but has not yet caught it as with stage 4 with some qualities of stage 5 coming though here and there.

And I've been at this stage of letting go of attachments and conditional esteems for about half a decade or more. So, I've been there for quite a while. And I really felt like I was making progress for a long time (as I truly was). But over the course of the past couple years, I have shied away from listening to spiritual content. This is why I'm surprised that I was so compelled to watch the entire video today. Normally, I get disenchanted very easily as it feels like I'm treading over the same ground. And I feel as though I've lost the trail and run out of mind-based teachings that will help me along the path. So, I only want to share as of late.

And I think that glimpsing the ox in the way I did previously has put me on high alert for self-deception and obsessed with honesty and perception. So, I don't mind looking at myself and world in unflattering lights. And because of this willingness to look at things in this way, I receive insights quite easily, and it's a skill that I enjoy having and being able to help others with it. But this doesn't really lead through to the letting go that needs to happen for me to progress, as this insight seeking is just another way to get lost in thought relative to enlightenment. It's a useful skill at best and a parlor trick at worst.

And I am aware of this, and have been. But the awareness of this pattern, leads back into the pattern as long as I am engaged in thought. Even now, it is what I'm doing... and now... and now... and now. And I'm aware that it's escapable just through detachment from though processes, but I seem unable to resist the pull toward though in daily life. 

Anyone else, who pegs themselves at a three have this issue? If so, what have you done to make a habit of becoming mindful and detaching from thought in daily activities? 

Just looking for something to help with building the fires of motivation really...

You have to know exactly what it is that you want in your life and exactly how you want to contribute to the outside world.  That puts everything else into context and resolves a lot of issues.  Then there is no more wishy-washy.  The only relevant question at that point is will you do what you promise to do.  It becomes a question of, "Will you take your ideal vision and transform it into reality?"  See, that's a very different kind of question.  Notice it has nothing to do with theory at all.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

@Emerald You can do this tomorrow morning. Get a good night’s sleep, wake up and meditate, returning your focus to stomach breathing, over and over. You know that is the work to be done. Wether you entertain 1 more thought, or 1 million more thoughts, before doing this work, that’s up to you. When I was there I had a family & I was the only income producer (wife at home with 2 babies). I had to be at work at 9am. So I got up at 4am, for many months, instead of 7am. Eventually you will not have thoughts. 

Consider how in holding a problem, inherent;y, the solution will seem foreign. Thought will discredit everything to perpetuate more thinking. Effort & desire, and human will are much stronger than thought, especially when you consider what you’re up against is one thought, not all of them, just the one. 

If you can’t pinpoint why it is you don’t care for me, this could be it. 

[Emerald]

Uh oh! I just realized that I put this post in the wrong section. If any mods can switch it, I'd really appreciate it.

[Privet]

Check out Shinzen Young's trigger practice idea.

The idea is that: reach deep state in your formal practice and then increasingly expose yourself to more and more seductive triggers trying to remain in that state.

https://www.shinzen.org/trigger-practice/

Another idea (stopping on a dime) in the first half of the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSq9vKkLu4s

And one more talk on this topic:

 

On 26.11.2018 at 2:40 PM, Emerald said:

Even now, it is what I'm doing... and now... and now... and now.

I broke out laughing here, LOL. Reminded me of this post (3rd paragraph). There's another technique by Shinzen called "note vanishings" or "gone", the idea is that thoughts go to the same place they come from which is your true nature.

It's kinda satisfying to keep looking at what happens when you suddenly STOP...

And this satisfaction may reinforce the desire to keep looking. My Kundalini all over the body squirms each time I slightly sniff the abyss. Sometimes it brings intense feeling of love and awe and spacious feeling in the chest.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Privet

[Solace]

On 11/27/2018 at 3:56 AM, Nahm said:

You can do this tomorrow morning. Get a good night’s sleep, wake up and meditate, returning your focus to stomach breathing, over and over. You know that is the work to be done. Wether you entertain 1 more thought, or 1 million more thoughts, before doing this work, that’s up to you. When I was there I had a family & I was the only income producer (wife at home with 2 babies). I had to be at work at 9am. So I got up at 4am, for many months, instead of 7am. Eventually you will not have thoughts. 

Consider how in holding a problem, inherent;y, the solution will seem foreign. Thought will discredit everything to perpetuate more thinking. Effort & desire, and human will are much stronger than thought, especially when you consider what you’re up against is one thought, not all of them, just the one. 

If you can’t pinpoint why it is you don’t care for me, this could be it. 

Absolutely amazing how you did this. That would’ve take  a lot of courage.

You inspire me ❤️

[Nahm]

@Solace You too!!!!!  Thanks.   ❤️

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Emerald If I understand correctly.., the currently you peg yourself on stage 3 with glimpses in different stages, yet you feel as though the spiritual content that is out there, does not have the impact upon you, that it used to had since there is not any progress anymore on the path or it is potentially not visible or reflected in daily life. Because thought and attachments are obstructing your perception and thinking? Also, that you gain insights more easily since glimpsing the ox, yet at the same time, it hinders any progress because of an attachment to insights? Also, being aware of the pattern alone is not the remedy, since you know that letting go, escaping the thought process is what will ultimately cease the awareness of the pattern which is aware of the pattern?

I am not sure on what stage I am if I had to guess it would be 3 nothing more or less. I had some insights into stage four, but I think it is similar to spiral dynamics. The subject of one stage becomes the object of the subject at the next stage. So, I can see hints and glimpses of the ox weekly. In a sense of some awe-inspiring or beautiful, thoughtless moment me catching myself having had a thoughtless moment and not being sure if it was essentially thoughtless or filled with unawareness or subconscious processing. (Gibber feelings at the back of my head, right before the neck starts, or at the occipital  which could make a nice pun). So, I can't see stage 4 daily, so I can't really contemplate upon stage 3, only describe my subjective experience. I do get insights which I am want to test about people or reality, testing it helps, me to verify some truth. But, without having some sort of comparison and not being able to talk to people in real life about this makes it difficult. Yet, trusting awarness and testing one insight constantly helps, while being aware of confirmation bias. 

Well, I am assuming that you are tired of shinzen young talk here on this website still, I can recommend his life practice programme which directly addresses your core issue of mindfulness during the day. It is or can be quiet inspirational since each week it has new guest, talking about their lives and how they can apply mindfulness strategies to conquer day to day life. https://www.lifepracticeprogram.com/ (The program is weekly on Wednesday or Tuesday, it should be in the U.S.)  I tried this when I wanted to become more mindful during the day, now I apply the techniques when I do some routine task. (Cleaning my room, walking to classes or to a friends house, going to the toilet, if you are really good talking to people when it is not a very challenging conversation.) I can recommend also the HeadSpace APP, when I first learned to practice some sort of meditation it helped me, they had a couple of cool articles and many options how to use meditation in particular circumstances. Or for particular problems/activities. Like relationships, cycling, jogging, walking, concentration, etc these are the ones I remember. I am by far not very good at it and can do it most effective when I am alone or walking. (Applying the mindfulness during the day / an activity)

Signing up for retreats also helped, I did this now again for motivation. Otherwise remembering the awe-inspiring moments and contemplating about them in my journal or writing about the feeling can be a great aid. Also, since I can't do this now but I would do it if I had bla bla, going to a meditation group or dojo nearby. Especially, when it has some Japanese influences or potentially Indic, I am not sure what you like, just seeing a different structure, the architecture and different people can help to inspire oneself again, to walk one's own unique path. This is what shinzen adviced me when I talked to him with the life practice programme. Also, to be pedantic/nitpicky... I read that you stopped listening to spiritual content  possibly, reading is better about something that used to inspire you about the whole process of reaching enlightenment. 

Hopefully, this advice is useful. Also, here is the video about interacting with others. I can also recommend the app insight timer, in case diversity and seeing beautiful people practising meditation all over the planet practicing different traditions. There are also teacher that one could come in contact with. I wrote to one guy recently because I wanted to know about integral yoga, he sent me two books and explained the overall philosophy to me and what kind of yogas it entails. Here the video about interacting with others. 

 

[Mu_]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 10:00 AM, Emerald said:

Uh oh! I just realized that I put this post in the wrong section. If any mods can switch it, I'd really appreciate it.

I don't know if this will help you but catching the ox has nothing to do with how much you think or don't think during the day.  The ox is already here in the thinking and the non thinking, its neither of these (IT IS THE THINKING AND NONE THINKING) and it can be a trap to believe you need to stop thinking to find it.

 

Shin posted a link about bentinho massaro free course, you may find it helpful since its very easily laid out.  I'm not sure about the guy himself as having moved through all his ego, but he's got a good teaching for the most part non the less with some things beautifully laid out and easily followable.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Mu_

[WelcometoReality]

@Emerald Letting go is all you need as a spiritual practice. 

Maybe look into what needs motivation and to what end it needs it for?

[Mu_]

5 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

@Emerald Letting go is all you need as a spiritual practice. 

Maybe look into what needs motivation and to what end it needs it for?

Thats a really powerful practice your pointing to.  Its bared great fruit in my life as well.

[LastThursday]

@Emerald  why does it matter to you?

I used to do Tai-Chi for years, and after the initial excitement, I used to wonder to myself why do I do this? I'm just doing the same mindless moves over and over again, week in week out: sensei please just give me something else! Eventually it clicked. It wasn't really about the moves, it was the practice that was important.  It was the energy, the poise, the focussed attention, the clear mind, and the graceful execution. That's why it mattered to me.

[WelcometoReality]

On 2018-12-05 at 5:23 PM, Mu_ said:

Thats a really powerful practice your pointing to.  Its bared great fruit in my life as well.

Yes isn't it extraordinary how such a simple practice can have such a huge impact.