The rarity of Spiral Dynamics

[caelanb]

Hello, I have a few questions about spiral dynamics. If it is apparently so good, why are their people that dismiss it as inaccurate or something like that? Shouldn't they be teaching it in universities and such if it explains the evolution of human nature so well? I'm wondering about this because my cousin, who has a bachelor in psychology, as well as my psychologist, have never heard of it, along with anyone that I ask. Just wondering why society is not and would not be spreading spiral dynamics if it's so amazing. Thank you.

 

[Rilles]

Its way too radical, way too radical. Maybe in 100 years, when their is more tier 2.

[Stygian]

The most likely cause of its niche nature is its acknowledgement of objectively higher consciousness modes of being, or that fact that certain stages are more advanced. So, all of Tier 1, or +99% of the population, would be considered "inferior" to stages they potentially detest. E.g, Orange would become upset that the hippie tree-huggers in Green are above them, as well as the airy fairy Turquoise.

[Joseph Maynor]

It's just a model for what we might call adult development.  Not to say it can't include child development, but mostly Spiral Dynamics is about adult development.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Genghis Khan]

Spiral Dynamics is taught in some colleges. In fact, Spiral Dynamics was first discovered in a university setting. I would say that the reason why so few people understand Spiral Dynamics is because most people are in the first tier. People in the first tier are too busy trying to validate their ideology rather than taking the time to broaden their perspective. Spiral Dynamics is inherently a stage-yellow perspective, which is beyond the grasp of most people.

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Genghis Khan

[Forestluv]

@caelanb I think Clare Graves died before his work was published and never gained traction like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs did.

I teach the basics of SD at a college, yet my colleagues have never heard if it. 

[Leo Gura]

It is studied in universities. Don Beck, the developer of Spiral Dynamics, was a professors at the University Of North Texas in Denton.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Edward_Beck

And there are hundreds of developmental psychologists around the world researching various developmental models.

It's just not mainstream knowledge. Don't expect this stuff advertised to you on Facebook.

Bachelors of psychology hardly know anything about how the human mind really works.

Universities also have an aversion to anything mystical, which Spiral Dynamics points at with stage Turquoise.

Your key mistake is assuming that society spreads amazing things. Society mostly spreads the most dumbed-down, idiotic things. See my video: The Deep Problem Of Marketing

It's precisely because Spiral Dynamics is so good that it is not spread.

[caelanb]

Thanks guys, I understand a bit more now. Society would not spread what it does not believe, especially mysticism. I guess I thought that if it's so powerful, I would have heard about Spiral dynamics not from Leo, but from someone else.

A few sources point out a stage coral, is there actually one?

Are there any good websites that I could find examples of people in different stages?

I'll check out the video as well.

[zambize]

1 minute ago, caelanb said:

Thanks guys, I understand a bit more now. Society would not spread what it does not believe, especially mysticism. I guess I thought that if it's so powerful, I would have heard about Spiral dynamics not from Leo, but from someone else.

A few sources point out a stage coral, is there actually one?

Are there any good websites that I could find examples of people in different stages?

I'll check out the video as well.

I think they gave you some good advice, but maybe I can add something to your understanding.  So I actually just graduated from college, and it's apparent that Madison seems primarily green.  But for sake of discussion, let's not assume spiral dynamics works at all.  My college focused a lot on multiculturalism and the idea that everyone is equally developed across the world in their own way.  In fact they were really focused because you had to take at least a course which fed very low quality research about how the globe was one big equal happy family.  While spiral dynamics seems to have a lot of truth to it, it forces you to realize that each country isn't at the same development.  Some have had advantages, and thus have created seemingly more stable and happy populations and hierarchies.  Each country can be put somewhere unique on this spiral, and that opposes everything universities have been pushing.  To wrap up my ideas, spiral dynamics conflicts with many of the hard beliefs that universities hold, objection to what the universities deem as true can often be met with a lot of criticism, look at Jordan Peterson.  Additionally, for universities to adopt this model, they would have to contradict a lot of the "research" done, and admit that they were only stage green.  If universities admitted they were stage green, and that stage yellow existed, most people would say fuck the university system and seek out these higher quality teachers.  Which often live in the university system so don't let me too oversimplify the issue.  

 

Are there any good websites that I could find examples of people in different stages?  Go through the first few pages of the forums and you'll see all kinds of "Stage turqoise mega threads".  These have a lot about the stage, examples, teachers, everything.

 

Best of luck on your journey 

 

 

[Forestluv]

@zambize SD is inherently a meta view. It can’t be taught well from a Tier1 perspective. I teach it at a college from a Yellow perspective. It’s difficult for students at their developmental level. We spend 20 minutes each class in meditation and discussion on attachments/identification. After a several weeks, their minds opened up quite a bit to relative perspectives.

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv Love it!

Why haven't they fired you yet for corrupting the minds of the youth with your hippie talk?

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv That’s the sweetest thing I’ve heard in a while man. ????❤️ God bless the teachers, seriously. 

[zambize]

12 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@zambize SD is inherently a meta view. It can’t be taught well from a Tier1 perspective. I teach it at a college from a Yellow perspective. It’s difficult for students at their developmental level. We spend 20 minutes each class in meditation and discussion on attachments/identification. After a several weeks, their minds opened up quite a bit to relative perspectives.

If you have video lectures, please link me or a course home page.  I'd like to see the approach you take if you don't mind

[Forestluv]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Serotoninluv Love it!

Why haven't they fired you yet for corrupting the minds of the youth with your hippie talk?

Heehee. I promoted it as very “interdisciplinary, with an abundance of diverse perspectives”

And to throw them off my trail, I titled the course “The Evolution of Consciosness”. That little bit of Darwinian pixie dust was just enough fragrance to relax their resistance. A little bit of Turquoise Ninja. . . 

Btw, your work on SD got me hooked and inspired me to teach it.

 

[caelanb]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your key mistake is assuming that society spreads amazing things. Society mostly spreads the most dumbed-down, idiotic things.

21 hours ago, zambize said:

Additionally, for universities to adopt this model, they would have to contradict a lot of the "research" done, and admit that they were only stage green.  If universities admitted they were stage green, and that stage yellow existed, most people would say fuck the university system and seek out these higher quality teachers.  Which often live in the university system so don't let me too oversimplify the issue.  

I thought universities spread the facts, research and what has been validated. Is this not true? Why would anyone go to university/college if it did not teach the facts, and amazing things like SD, but dumped down things? This makes university pointless, I thought people were more intelligent than this. Subjects can get very complex.

@zambize What do you mean by "research", don't universities do proper research? 

On 11/25/2018 at 5:08 PM, Genghis Khan said:

I would say that the reason why so few people understand Spiral Dynamics is because most people are in the first tier. People in the first tier are too busy trying to validate their ideology rather than taking the time to broaden their perspective. Spiral Dynamics is inherently a stage-yellow perspective, which is beyond the grasp of most people.

Does this mean that anyone that is supposedly below tier 2, should not speak about/criticize tier 2 (or even Spiral dynamics) because they don't know what their talking about/dealing with, even if they are knowledgeable in whatever they are talking about, such as if they have PhD's and have studied these theories for years? They may have found the issues and inaccuracies with SD or anything like it.

Thanks.

Edited November 26, 2018 by caelanb

[Leo Gura]

@caelanb Academia is a bureacracy and represents a particular culture and paradigm.

Anything too far out of that paradigm is entirely ignored and denied.

Which is why if you really care about truth you must seek out unorthodox perspectives.

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@caelanb Academia is a bureacracy and represents a particular culture and paradigm.

Anything too far out of that paradigm is entirely ignored and denied.

Which is why if you really care about truth you must seek out unorthodox perspectives.

Do you think academia is evolving up the Spiral toward Green and Yellow? At my institution, there is some support at Green and Yellow levels - but not Turquoise.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Do you think academia is evolving up the Spiral toward Green and Yellow? At my institution, there is some support at Green and Yellow levels - but not Turquoise.

Of course they are. Univerities are very Green culturally.

Hardcore academia is still being weighed down by the rationalism, materialism, and corporatism of Orange.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course they are. Univerities are very Green culturally.

Hardcore academia is still being wieghted down by the rationalism, materialism, and corporatism of Orange.

Ahhh, perhaps similar to how Hollywood actors are Green culturally, yet are still being weighed down by a corporate Orange film industry.

[Leo Gura]

Orange is a tough stage to entirely outgrow because money and biz is so vital in a capitaliatic society. Nothing big can happen without it.