Please Don't chase enlightenment.

[Joseph Maynor]

I find myself not having any interest to debate these kinds of issues anymore.  I almost never argue now.  What's crazy is that it's always the same questions, the same arguments, just different people.  I swear to God, it's the same questions, the same answers, the same positions. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Rilles]

10 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I find myself not having any interest to debate these kinds of issues anymore.  I almost never argue now.  What's crazy is that it's always the same questions, the same arguments, just different people.  I swear to God, it's the same questions, the same answers, the same positions. 

 

[Strikr]

32 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I find myself not having any interest to debate these kinds of issues anymore.  I almost never argue now.  What's crazy is that it's always the same questions, the same arguments, just different people.  I swear to God, it's the same questions, the same answers, the same positions. 

yep moderator here are "insane" telling this with, respect.

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I find myself not having any interest to debate these kinds of issues anymore.  I almost never argue now.  What's crazy is that it's always the same questions, the same arguments, just different people.  I swear to God, it's the same questions, the same answers, the same positions. 

Absolutely ? Also, such is earth, and such was your means of transcendence. 

[non_nothing]

True seekers know how to stay in heart. Those who are about to discover yet they have it too naturally, everybody has that. But within the realm of mind, mind is eager for baits. That was all why the thread had been created. Sooner or later ego will eat itself. But those who seek help always find help even the ego. Books are therefore supplied. Such this explanation came after long pages of posts to reveal the truth for serious seekers. The power and truth is always on your side. You are now blessed. Words are spoken. Peace for all. Let there be.

[Shadowraix]

This sounds like a big conflict on what 'enlightenment' is to you and the 'proper' way to seek it.

To me it doesn't matter what the motive is for this 'enlightenment' because the further you go in your journey such a motive will evolve with your personal development. We all start somewhere.

[Jack River]

Thought can get pretty gnarly dudes. It will totally miss certain movements it makes. A kind of incoherent continuity. 

If I seek “enlightenment” I have already presupposed I know what it is. 

It’s going into investigation with assumptions/fixed notions...it implies effort/will to attain the image/goal that I have already identified with.  

This is how the self seems to subtly sustains its own pattern. It’s pattern that is woven tight in the structure of ego/thought. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Jack River

[Angelite]

On 11/26/2018 at 7:08 AM, Angelite said:

I had think about this for quite a while, and come to this realization just now. 

The trick is, you can't ask questions. To anyone. The more you ask , the more you'll get into the loopholes of suffering and it will be never ending circles till you stop asking. Haha. And surrendered yourself completely to the One.

When you depend on no others but Him.

When you turn to no others but Him.

Whenever you're confused, or stuck, or get into troubles or falls into the never ending loopholes, you only return to Him, the One and only God.

Only then you'll be fine. Completely free from any forms of sufferings. When you look up to no others but the One, He will guide you. But better yet if you've come to a point where you no longer feels the desire to ask questions, even to God, as you have surrendered yourself completely to God and are at ease with that. The One and the Absolute

 

*Don't get me wrong, you shouldn't stop asking if there's still desire. Fixed whatever that makes you unable to surrender yourself completely to God. 100%. But again, this is only the beginning. The journey will still be further. But now you're in the guidance of God. and you'll be fine. Wherever He leads you to be..

 

I think this is manners 1.0  in serving God. In 'finding' God. In getting to know God. 

The more you talk about it with other than God, or discuss about it, or even tryin to convey the messages, the more you'll fall into the trap. Hence all the sufferings.The discussion will be never ending.

 You won't ever come to a conclusion/realization, when you're still ascribing something to God. Whatever that is that you returned to other than Him. That's it. This is just mannerism tho. There's still a lot of other aspect in this journey.

 

Ps: This will be my last. For real. I'm afraid that i might be assigning something to other than God. The One and the Absolute.

 

Silence is key as it is indescribable. But Leo is still good at making others understand the concept. And all the masters as well~

 

 

Haha okay i had think about this deeper.....

Without the gurus, without the prophets, without everything else that ever existed in our human experience(including the bad and the good with no exception), without the perceptions and this so called "illusions" , we wouldn't know God/Truth. We will still be unconscious. Forever. Even the prayers/meditations  that we did everyday to connect to God, or to even know the existence of God, is through others......through everything else.

Without the prophets & the gurus, I wouldn't even know the existence of God. We learned all these from the previous generations, and the knowledge continues from generation to generation. That's one example. Another example is, haha it is everything that's around us , without these human experiences, we wouldn't know God. All the books that we've read, the authors, the community from different stages in spiral dynamics, the villains and the sages, those are all pointers towards Truth if you really look at it.

It's God's Mercy everywhere to make Himself known to it's Creations. God's Love & Mercy(&wisdom). Even being confused & going through the seeking phase, is one of the infinite ways of getting to know God aka the Absolute Truth.   

Is this what it means when they say, "wherever you'll look, you'll see God" ?  / Everything = God / Manifestations of God in Everything? 

 

*another example : without 5MeO-DMT Leo wouldn't know of his true nature~ hence we wouldn't know of all the important insights & wisdom that is Actualized.org~

 

 

&It goes full circle, if there is no illusion, there will be no barriers that separate us with God.  But that's not how things are. Because we are already in this illusion. It's unavoidable. So we have to turn it back to normal inside out with all these inquiries. (Haha i don't know tho I haven't experience Oneness so don't believe what I say it could be wrong).  It's fine to be in this "Ego" as long as you keep going, at your own pace. It's not like you can skip a stage or something. And God wouldn't mind it either as long as you keep going, nearer to Truth~ Never stop learning till you get to be in that Truth eternally~

 

*Contemplation is not a distraction if it brings you closer to Truth*

Edited November 29, 2018 by Angelite

[non_nothing]

5 hours ago, Angelite said:

Without the gurus, without the prophets, without everything else that ever existed in our human experience(including the bad and the good with no exception),

Be careful with such statements. This and the last one I told you about separation makes things very separate.

[Angelite]

@non_nothing okay sorry if it's wrong, these are just thoughts that make sense to me. I bluntly wrote it as it make sense to me, so don't take it as true as I could be wrong. 

Can you explain what is this separation that you talk about? I haven't experience non-duality, so I really don't know. 

 

7 hours ago, Angelite said:

Without the gurus, without the prophets, without everything else that ever existed in our human experience(including the bad and the good with no exception)

What i mean by that is, i believe everything is the Creation of God, even the Ego/evils are God's creations.

And it's true that without the enlightened prophet, i wouldn't know how to pray. In other words, I wouldn't know the existence of God.

 

What makes u uncomfortable, my view of separation between God and Creation? What is your non-dual views of my current view? It is dualistic ? To make sure that it is One? Oneness...non-dual?

If it's those that makes you worry ,a few people had explained it to me. And I think, for it to be fully grasped in it's real magnitude, I need to experience it myself to understand it. 

 

*Okay i won't talk about things I didn't know from now on. .....but can you explain it to me either way? Seems like it bothers you, must be something important that i should realize.  Or maybe I should ask God about it.

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Angelite

[lmfao]

If anybody is interested in hearing an extremely profound talk on the whole idea of Enlightenment and improving yourself, here's one:

In a different video Alan Watts phrases the issue of waking up by saying that to ask how to become enlightened is the same as asking "How do I get to here?".

Getting to here is very tricky, hence people meditate and do conciosuness work. It's perfectly fine to chase Enlightenment, so long as you realise that Enlightenment is about accepting and being at one with the present moment and Enlightenment isn't about the acquisition of some golden material or golden spiritual goody. 

[non_nothing]

58 minutes ago, Angelite said:

What i mean by that is, i believe everything is the Creation of God, even the Ego/evils are God's creations.

And it's true that without the enlightened prophet, i wouldn't know how to pray. In other words, I wouldn't know the existence of God.

How come you can know anything? How happens that you are able to know anything? How it is so that you, your mind is functioning that so you can know anything? How it is possible that even the first place, for any information, including guru teachings, including simple words as you read know, you can get to know anything? How it is possible that you are able to make sense of any information? How come that it is happening by all itself without you? How come it is all happening you not doing anything? How come it is so that everything just happens itself without you. How come there was "it is" before and after you? How come then you know something about anything?

[Angelite]

3 hours ago, lmfao said:

If anybody is interested in hearing an extremely profound talk on the whole idea of Enlightenment and improving yourself, here's one:

In a different video Alan Watts phrases the issue of waking up by saying that to ask how to become enlightened is the same as asking "How do I get to here?".

Getting to here is very tricky, hence people meditate and do conciosuness work. It's perfectly fine to chase Enlightenment, so long as you realise that Enlightenment is about accepting and being at one with the present moment and Enlightenment isn't about the acquisition of some golden material or golden spiritual goody. 

Okay so a complete surrender to God and be in the moment & not worry about anything else, in other word, complete trust and faith to God, or if it's in decision making, it should be from God's consciousness? 

But what if........there is an action that I know for sure is gonna work, should I refrain myself? For example, if I saw a dog should I run or should I just let it be? Leave it to God~ Or should I not care about anything and just be spontaneous and do whatever feels right? 

or, if I have faith, nothing gonna hurt me unless He Wills it........

or........free will is relative to our faith.........?

*okay i'll stop asking now*

2 hours ago, non_nothing said:

How come you can know anything? How happens that you are able to know anything? How it is so that you, your mind is functioning that so you can know anything? How it is possible that even the first place, for any information, including guru teachings, including simple words as you read know, you can get to know anything? How it is possible that you are able to make sense of any information? How come that it is happening by all itself without you? How come it is all happening you not doing anything? How come it is so that everything just happens itself without you. How come there was "it is" before and after you? How come then you know something about anything?

If I think it through, can I realize non-duality? (Conceptually speaking, it all comes from God, the One that is eternal~). I'll think it through.

*okay that's considered chasing~~

Edited November 28, 2018 by Angelite

[lmfao]

9 hours ago, Angelite said:

 

9 hours ago, Angelite said:

Okay so a complete surrender to God and be in the moment & not worry about anything else, in other word, complete trust and faith to God, or if it's in decision making, it should be from God's consciousness? 

Pretty much man. I have found that if I'm trying to reach a high consciousness state, I must initially put in mental energy and be proactively surrendering. What is happening here is that I am trying to to stop trying. Once I am in a meditative state I can then stop trying to stop trying. That's because trying to to stop trying is a paradox. The cessation of trying requires that you do not try to achieve this cessation. 

9 hours ago, Angelite said:

But what if........there is an action that I know for sure is gonna work, should I refrain myself? For example, if I saw a dog should I run or should I just let it be? Leave it to God~ Or should I not care about anything and just be spontaneous and do whatever feels right? 

Whatever you do, do it mindfully. If you stick to that commitment you may find that in some situations you will naturally be inclined towards the "higher consciousness" choice. I'm talking from personal experience here. 

Listen to the video I linked my nigga. 

 

[Jack River]

Are we looking for a way out of self (conflict/suffering/discontentment)? If so the motive/means that we use to attain the gaol(time) may be the cause itself of self(conflict/suffering/discontentment). Can this be seen as a fact? 

What if every step away from what is(conflict/suffering/discontentment) sustains that what is? 

How do we know when we are moving away from what is? 

[MiracleMan]

1 hour ago, Jack River said:

Are we looking for a way out of self (conflict/suffering/discontentment)? If so the motive/means that we use to attain the gaol(time) may be the cause itself of self(conflict/suffering/discontentment). Can this be seen as a fact? 

What if every step away from what is(conflict/suffering/discontentment) sustains that what is? 

How do we know when we are moving away from what is? 

If someone is looking for relief, and you tell them that looking for relief is causing nonrelief, then when the person tries to stop looking for relief, that movement is in a sense playing God, or trying to control an outcome either way.

So if I go to meditate or inquire, and someone says that meditation in reinforcing the sense of self, I'm still in the same predicament whether I meditate or not.

Best to just practice if you want to practice, but armed with the relative knowledge that you will always be trying to outwit 'yourself'.

If that which is playing God (example: "I will meditate my way to enlightenment") is told to stop playing God, and they make a commitment to stop playing God, they are still playing God ad-infinitum.  

The only possible solution in this is observation.  You can observe the yin and yang of the situation, that which is playing God, and that which wants to stop playing God.  Self cannot get out of self.  But who is it that sees this self, that is aware of this self, sees an apparent duality or division. The presuppositions of a non existent entity (thought) searching for its own end.

Can thought be aware of its own movement?  I don't know...

Can an object being perceived (like thought) be perceiving? 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by MiracleMan

[Jack River]

@MiracleMan

excellent response dude. 

19 minutes ago, MiracleMan said:

If someone is looking for relief, and you tell them that looking for relief is causing nonrelief, then when the person tries to stop looking for relief, that movement is in a sense playing God, or trying to control an outcome either way.

Fosho. That is still a movement away from what is. There seems to be a big difference between controlling an outcome (what should be) and simply understand what is happening. Generally we tend to look for relief by finding answers to problems. We try looking for answers to solve our problem as opposed to learning/understanding the problem. Looking for answers can for example be what meditation techniques, forms of knowledge, and other traditionalal/cultural means can I use to free myself from myself. This is a kind of looking to authority to end my suffering. We generally don’t want to step back and observe the problem as it is. Which means understanding ourselves as we are, and not as we feel we should be, which is implied in techniques(means/answers) to solve my problem. 

Thought generally seems to move in the pattern of looking for solutions as opposed to understanding the problem. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

45 minutes ago, MiracleMan said:

So if I go to meditate or inquire, and someone says that meditation in reinforcing the sense of self, I'm still in the same predicament whether I meditate or not.

 

Yep. For you to belive that statement I made is the same as someone looking for an answer without understanding the problem. They may then assume what I say is correct. If so we remain in the same boat as before. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

25 minutes ago, MiracleMan said:

Best to just practice if you want to practice, but armed with the relative knowledge that you will always be trying to outwit 'yourself'.

To me starting to understand the self/thought and its nature is the beginning of meditation. Actually I find it rather impossible to meditate without prior understanding of thought/selfs limitations. There is a freedom that arises (holistic insight) which allows for meditation to flower without premeditated action of the self corrupting meditation. 

[Jack River]

34 minutes ago, MiracleMan said:

Self cannot get out of self.  But who is it that sees this self, that is aware of this self, sees an apparent duality or division. The presuppositions of a non existent entity (thought) searching for its own end.

Can thought be aware of its own movement?  I don't know...

That’s a good question dude. I say thought can definitely be aware of itself. But can the veil of self (knowledge/experience-the past) that sees through its concepts/intellectual capacity be aware of movement? Or is that only being aware of a fragment of the total movement of  thought? 

To look through the veil of self (what is familiar to self-or identified with) is to exclude parts that aren’t so familiar. So in that sense we are looking/being aware selectively. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Jack River