Please Don't chase enlightenment.

[Jack River]

55 minutes ago, robdl said:

 

 Indeed.

If the self gets rid of an idea, what has influenced that disidentification/removal?  Is it not the bias-conditioning (conclusions/time) that the self has clung to?  The divided action as the "chooser"? 

Even in disidentification and getting rid of ideas, there will be the underlying work of clinging-attachment (the past) that's influencing that action.

Disidentification and the clinging of the past can't be so easily separated apart.  The loss of an idea may be the very movement of clinging itself.

The loss of an idea in accordance to experience-knowledge-memory will serve to validate that very accumulated content. 

 

 

 

Most excellently said. 

Either or is still positive/negative action of a self. 

[Jack River]

Any action influenced by knowledge/experience/memory is a divided action of the self. A two step process of action. 

Holisitc insight/action is not split/divided. 

[robdl]

Just now, Jack River said:

Most excellently said. 

Either or is still positive/negative action of a self. 

Quite so.  People may assume that positive (or identifying) actions may reinforce self more than negative (or disidentifying) actions, but both reinforce self.

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, robdl said:

Quite so.  People may assume that positive (or identifying) actions may reinforce self more than negative (or disidentifying) actions, but both reinforce self.

Yeah. Both the same. 

[Jack River]

With holistic insight there doesnt seem to be any movement in either direction. There doesn’t seem to be a movement that influences action...The insight is the action itself. Would you say so as well @robdl?

[Strikr]

25 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

There are states of being without thought and conceptualization. Just observing and perceiving. Just being.

yep this is what I m talking about, don't need to play more with words  

New year my friends will bump me on a load of mushroom, I agree to bang on 2g, do you think that could be a good way of internalizing the feeling INTO my matrix ?

or some real meditation practice could help me with it ?

I m thinking of taking some day, only drawing/music, without thinking  of "internal/reading computer/book", do you think that can help me get a better "breakthrough" ?

"maybe there is no such thing as "being", and that's "it" :haha:"  I should try though and I'll trust some of you are still alright with the work on the reality/mind/body/spirit.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Strikr

[DrewNows]

1 hour ago, Strikr said:

I mean, is there a true way to stop the flow of thought ? even aware of the river, the river still keep flowing, that's annoying, as an artist, the "not knowing" is really something nice.

is there a true way to be more in the "now", besides another mindfuck tail ? way of being as stupid as eckart tolle ?

There is no controlling the flow of the river. When we see we are not separate from the river it ceases to continue 

[DrewNows]

27 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Any action influenced by knowledge/experience/memory is a divided action of the self. A two step process of action. 

Holisitc insight/action is not split/divided. 

To see this in direct experience = holistic insight  

@robdl@Jack Riveryou guys express it so well! 

Awesome 

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, DrewNows said:

To see this in direct experience = holistic insight  

@robdl@Jack Riveryou guys express it so well! 

Awesome 

?Awsome that we can understand each other. 

[Strikr]

36 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

There is no controlling the flow of the river. When we see we are not separate from the river it ceases to continue 

gtfo lmao.

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Strikr

[DrewNows]

21 minutes ago, Strikr said:

gtfo lmao.

Lets not make ? ?

[Strikr]

2 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Lets not make ? ?

As an abstract worker/art all "real pointer" to alternative way of being can be good, but that's too abstract to point to anything clear to pov/experiment

I m "above meta magic"

Edited November 27, 2018 by Strikr

[DrewNows]

4 minutes ago, Strikr said:

I m "above meta magic"

Hey whatever floats your boat...

[Strikr]

Just now, DrewNows said:

Hey whatever floats your boat...

you don't provide any building to my boat, you just try to fucking sink me.

get me ?

[DrewNows]

1 minute ago, Strikr said:

you don't provide any building to my boat, you just try to fucking sink me.

get me ?

I don’t steer your boat dude..

[Strikr]

4 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

I don’t steer your boat dude..

ofc you don't, but all abstract thinking doesn't mean you have to mindfuck, you can point to real way of seeing things.

it's like being an artist, someone ask you : how can I be in flow states.

And I tell him, "just be the wave". No I'll answer him precisely on all the different stage of abstraction he should create to get such a stage, like being in perfect harmony with his tools ( means : grinding them ( means 14h a day ), means using the same tools, etc lot of pointer... how to think etc.. ) without trying to mindfuck him with just monky sentences. Maybe I m deluded, but many people get my teaching well.

maybe that's the biggest mindfuck, there is "truth" in the "mindfuckery", we all just it for us, that's sure, all knowledge is "direct experience" hard to share the abstract of our knowledge, but I m sure we can be more precise than just pointing to big waves that everyone can interpret in infinite ways.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Strikr

[DrewNows]

@StrikrI hear ya dude. What’s your question? (How to stop thoughts?) 

i have experimented a lot with flow states too...love it. There’s definitely an unattachment/disidentificafion/absorption taking place and not sure how much “practice” is necessary after learning fundamentals 

 

[Strikr]

5 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@StrikrI hear ya dude. What’s your question? (How to stop thoughts?) 

i have experimented a lot with flow states too...love it. There’s definitely an unattachment/disidentificafion/absorption taking place and not sure how much “practice” is necessary after learning fundamentals 

 

you know what I get it, that's not everyone here that his crazy.

my mind, when it sees a data "I don't understand" the data = RESEARSH UNDERSTAND

he try to, infinitum.

means.. means.. means.. the mind is a complete mindfuck, the more you use it, the more it goes for more, it's feeding itself again and again with "new data" and try to upgrade from it.

so you're probably on a "higher lvl of thinking" if you know what I mean, "no orange law" work at all.

it's your basic set of data/mind/body/spirit, with you interact on a basic lvl ( hahahaha, I m just sure you are right now trying to transcript my own shit words into your assumption )

damn I need to go to sleep

Edited November 27, 2018 by Strikr

[DrewNows]

2 minutes ago, Strikr said:

means.. means.. means.. the mind is a complete mindfuck, the more you use it, the more it goes for more, it's feeding itself again and again with "new data" and try to upgrade from it.

Yes the mind starts to function more and more mechanically (conditioned). Once we become aware of the conditioning patterns and see how they feed off each other we are no longer bound by mind

...yeah sounds like you need to let yourself go to sleep

[Nahm]

@Strikr Try to notice during breath awareness meditation that each thought arises on it’s own accord, in a linear fashion. Though it appears so, in actuality, one thought has absolutely nothing to do with the very next thought. The understanding is of infinite consciousness (you), not a product of some series of thoughts.   (that -  is yet another completely stand alone thought).   It can be helpful to label each thought, a,b,c... or 1,2,3,... - using your voice, out loud, for the purpose of awareness of the space inbetween each thought / the silence in between the words. That space is consciousness (you), the space thoughts are transpiring in - emptiness, the same as a voice transpires, or arises in, the silence (you).

From there, less falsity, or ignorance in identification is needed for thinking to continue to cease. This is the same as more awareness, consciousness, in terms of identification.  Consider, given that all there is, is consciousness, many thoughts arise simply in maintaining a complete cover up, or preserving the beliefs supporting a separate entity. It’s a lot of work. 

That, requires effort, it is effort; contraction - tension - over thinking...unconsciousness. (Doesn’t feel like effort after many years of it - we don’t notice)

Relaxing the body relaxes the mind,directly lessening overthinking. Relaxed body = consciousness. (Feels wonderful after many years of efforting)

It is also helpful to add the opposite thought to each arising thought. This reveals or points right at the dualistic nature of thinking (or the onesidedness used to forge the “separate identity”), and also brings awareness to the space in which both thoughts of opposite perspective are arising. Ex: Feel how both are “true”, as they are equal, level, merely arising and not to be believed or identified with.  This will lessen the amount of thoughts, as well as lingering questions which contribute to over thinking. 

Also, you could look into; double negatives, unnessessary complexity, purposeless abstraction, circular logic, and problem creating, in terms of awareness of reactionary conditioned thoughts. Incrementally, there’s what appears to be an overall diminishment of thinking (in occurrence & severity), as well as the “arising of awareness” (It was all that was really there). Hopefully some of that is helpful. 

Don’t ask how this is known though.