Discussion about Immigration

[Arthur]

As I am going through the process of immigration, I started having various thoughts on this topic. It's interesting to observe the process of immigration, of which most residents aren't aware. 

Basically, there are hundred thousand people who want to relocate to Canada, U.S. or Australia. However, policymakers aren't fools, they don't just open their borders to anybody. They either pick people based on their occupation and the country's needs. Or they select the "cream of the crop" to immigrate, which means, the most educations people with strong professional skills (Engineers, Doctors, Researcher etc.). 

Interestingly, the intelligent people themselves prefer to live in a higher consciousness society ( Relatively speaking ). SD stage Orange or Green individual provided the opportunity will go to great lengths to escape his or her stage Red or Blue environment.

So what's the problem? everybody wants what's best for themselves.

Well, it's sort of a catch 22. What ends up happening is that we have few countries that are centered higher up the spiral, while others can be two or even three stages below. This immigration tendency further perpetuates this gap and delays the development of some countries.  Image if some of the great philosophers, scientists and engineers put their efforts into raising awareness of their local communities. 

I am well aware of my own hypocrisy with regards to this situation. I am not a great intellectual of course. But, I do feel that following Actualized.org opened my mind beyond the bulk of the people from the country I was born.  If I was to stay, maybe I could have some minor contributions to the awakening of others? But then I wouldn't evolve further myself...

How do you reconcile the desire of developed people to leave their community to pursue their own growth, with the need the global awareness and evolution?

[Equanimitize]

This is so complex, that I can't even begin to wrap my brain around this rabbit hole.  

Of course people will be driven to improve their lives, especially when they are in an environment in which it is not conducive to their personal evolution. Human beings are suppose to be free, but it takes a lot of work to be free. Sometimes Dad has to leave the family to go grab some grub. 

I will say that as technology improves, internet keeps growing in undeveloped Countries, and people no longer have to count on "regular" institutions to become educated the collective consciousness of the World should rise. Also, when Politicians start realizing that it's in their best interest for Joe from Haiti to be just as educated as his children, because Joe may very well be the genius that solves his daughters rare life threatening disease. Of course the realization that we are all interconnected would be huge, but this would take a tinge of yellow thinking to solve these huge problems deliberately and systemically.

 

 

[Arthur]

@Equanimitize 

Indeed, this is a complicated issue. I completely agree that the internet and accessible transportation made our world much more interconnected. Progress and changes are coming, and they are coming fast.

I think a great resolution to this problem, is to combine one's personal growth with a contribution to the larger whole. Actualized.org is a good example. Leo can have an impact on hundreds of people all over the world being right where he is. But this is one in a million case (unfortunately).

Can you image if Leo stayed in Russia?

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Arthur said:

If I was to stay, maybe I could have some minor contributions to the awakening of others? But then I wouldn't evolve further myself...

You can develop yourself anywhere. Development is largely an internal activity.

Relocate if you want, but don't make it an excuse for not developing.

Some of the most advanced human beings are sitting right now in caves somewhere in India without a pot to piss in.

[Arthur]

@Leo Gura I agree. 

I do remember you mentioned that society does have a tendency to pull one back to it's base level.

But at the end, it's my own responsibility to prevent it.

[Leo Gura]

@Arthur Yes, of course it does. Which is why you gotta make yourself as independent of society as possible.

It is harder in 3rd world countries but not impossible.

You have to play the cards you've been dealt. Of course if you can move to a 1st world country then it's probably smart to do so.

The internet makes 3rd world countries a lot more livable. You can run a $10 million dollar business from an apartment in India if you are clever.

The biggest thing holding you back from success is simply your lack of vision and experience.

[Outer]

4 hours ago, Arthur said:

So what's the problem? everybody wants what's best for themselves.

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." - Adam Smith

You want your bread, and the baker wants the money. It's a positive sum transaction. The question you should ask is how will anyone get the money to buy the bread? Especially if the baker is a robot, and the vegetable grocer is unemployed. Self-interest is not a problem, self-interested robots are not a problem, robots who are built to bake bread and make money... It's that people don't have the money to buy bread from the robots, simply enough. That's where UBI comes in and I think it's one possible solution to mass unemployment and bureaucracy.

Now regarding immigration, it's correct that there is an intellectual drain via legal immigration, but I don't think that is a net negative if you look at the entire Earth. I think that first world countries should help third or second world countries in their development. So the same educated people that left their home countries can aid in uplifting them.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Outer

[Hellspeed]

A society is less and less conscious in metropolitan centers with full of masses, is more of a mind fuck there. 

[Arthur]

9 hours ago, Outer said:

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." - Adam Smith

 

Wow... I haven't studied Adam Smith, but this is a profoundly Orange statement. It really goes to the core of our capitalist society.
He was definitely a wise man and ahead of its time. He probably had an excellent understanding of what drives his fellow countryman. He is right, by caring for your own interest, U.S. became a super-power while Socialism crumbles.  

With that being said, people's psyche slowly starts to expand and include others more and more. By going full into selfishness and excesses of individuality, people starting to wake up to "the community" and the "others". I'm mainly describing SD stage Green. From that stage and beyond, people transcend (to some extent) their personal interest and are able to act from a higher source of motivation (Maslow's hierarchy). 

So in the future, maybe it will be true that "from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner".
(we are talking hundreds of years from now, not with our current systems).

[Pelin]

After I moved to another country a year ago (from the Middle East to East Asia), what has changed most for me is my perspective. I considered myself to be very open-minded, but I realized I was only looking from Middle Eastern and Western perspectives. Asian perspective is totally, totally different, the whole experience made me look at everything with a new eye. Now I get to understand what open-mindedness means. I guess it is worth to move out of your country, maybe only for a limited time, to just gain some perspective. And just to add, tourism is just not enough. It's like window-shopping.