I want to help Leo Gura with Jordan Peterson.

[Dayo]

Jordan Peterson has some good work. Leo's main issue is the fact that Jordan Peterson is ideological. One of the 65 Core Principles of actualized.org is integral thinking. I encourage everyone to apply this principle in all matters and stop this sterile black and white thinking.

[CreamCat]

I suggest it's time to teach what post-modernism is with a video. It's going to help clear up misunderstandings and inspire people to look into post-modernism. The problem is not Green. The problem is that messing up at lower stages leads to messing up at higher stages(e.g. Not having enough sleep messes up everything you do). You can mess up at Green just as you can mess up at other stages. Video is Leo's zone of genius. Criticizing jordan peterson is not going to help JP followers much.

Maybe, your video about post-modernism will inspire jordan peterson to rethink post-modernism.

Edited November 26, 2018 by CreamCat

[RichardY]

---------------Concern Trolling.----------------------

The guy talks about responsibility, but frequently lies. For teaching responsibility I would have thought a drill sergeant would be better. Something like this is your rifle, you will give your rifle a girls name and be responsible for her.

Read the Bible(Read a bit) don't listen to the priests, hear them sure. Get the root, not the leafs.

Some of the books and information he recommends I think are excellent. His interpretation and lying is not.  He's also highly political. How does politics and Truth go together?

[Krisena]

As someone who's a big fan of Jordan Peterson and swallowed all his knowledge with great apetite, I also haven't been able to embrace him completely. He's a wonderful person and does so much good for the world, but when Leo and others type him as orange, I whole-heartedly agree with that. I took me a while to put the finger on what I found lacking, but I realized it when someone started talking about Harry Potter in the comment section on one of his videos, talking about the importance of love, and the contrast was stark.

Jordan Peterson emphasizes individualism and personal responsibility to a dysfunctional degree. It's the feeling you get when you listen to him that you are always completely alone in the world, fighting to fend off all the dangers. Not once have I heard Peterson talk about the importance showing love to your fellow man, even though recieving love and confidence from other people is a much deeper prerequisite for being able to handle life than taking on responsibility and working hard.

To some degree, I think this is justified. Peterson realizing that a big part of his audience are people who haven't really recieved that love and confidence in their lives, and therefore won't really be able to take that kind of message. Peterson also has a clear axe to grind any sort of collectivist emotion. There's no nuance allowed in discussions that are even remotely related to his agenda against the marxism, even when they're not really about marxism. Where there's a lack of nuance, I always reserve judgement, and I feel like that's justified here as well.

And I find this baffling, as he's clearly a very empathetic person who cares deeply for other people. What's the nature of this paradox? I haven't been able to understand it.

It's that feeling you get when you listen to someone for a very, very long time and while nothing they say is particularily wrong, you start to intuit the worldview and emotions those thoughts are kept together by, and it is not pleasant. While pleasantness is certainly not a goal, coming from a less cutthroat society than him, I can't help to think that his worldview lacks that "equally powerful antagonist" that he always talks about when it comes to the literature of Dostoevsky and Tolstoy. He knows the importance of experiencing love for human well-being - he's a psychologist after all - yet he acts as if it's less important than all the other things he's dedicated his life to.

You know... Many people take his messages to heart, and if we imagine the extreme version of these messages blossoming into parents in 20 years, I think we'll see a lot of mothers and father who work tirelessly to cover the needs of their family and society, yet forget to hug their kids.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Krisena

[Freakyboo]

Emerald, I don't see you as putting yourself on a pedestal at all.  You are very lucid and calm in your reasoning, and you never bite back when JP fans are triggered by your comments (which are well thought out and intelligent).

Thanks - I always enjoy reading your posts.

[Outer]

1 hour ago, Freakyboo said:

Emerald, I don't see you as putting yourself on a pedestal at all.  You are very lucid and calm in your reasoning, and you never bite back when JP fans are triggered by your comments (which are well thought out and intelligent).

Thanks - I always enjoy reading your posts.

Emerald has a contracted perspective as she isn't taking on Jordan's teachings in a broader context and his complete teachings at all, she tends to contract her already contracted perspective to focus on some details, and then creates assumptions out of the tunnel vision to later post here. It is okay because it's radical, "triggering", but that type of behavior will only spawn more in the world, from stage Orange and Blue. Rather than just seeing some parts of Jordan's teachings as limited and contracted, some as not, and some as integral, and articulate that as properly as possible, Emerald is being at stage Green and rightfully think it's the best stage. According to Spiral Dynamics and Integral Theory, there is Yellow and Turquoise, which she can move up to. When you mention stage Yellow, she will say things to make you think that she's at that stage, so that  you accept her beliefs, when everyone clearly sees she's solid Green. No one who is  Yellow obsessively makes assumptions like she does nor do they focus on the details and sees things which aren't there. They see the big picture as they're detaching from their own stage and if they don't have the big picture of a person like Jordan, they will explain it and ask people to update them as they don't know what they're talking about.

It might be that Emerald is stage Yellow, but contracts her perspective out of an incorrect assumption that she is doing good in the world by attempting to trigger stage Orange and Blue, or even lower stages. What does good is recognizing the entire Spiral or Integral theory, the benefits and limitations of each stage, and clearly articulating it to others. Of course you have to accept Spiral dynamics as good before doing so.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Outer

[CreamCat]

@Outer I think you are focusing too much on one person and losing balance. You might want to step back and look at the big picture again.

Focusing too much on one person or one thing was all I wanted to warn about in this thread. I want to see more balance. Perhaps, I shouldn't have mentioned jordan peterson at all to not dilute my message.

Edited November 26, 2018 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

I prepared a long ass video explaining all of JP's problems in painful detail. It is really a genius analysis.

But I never shot it because people would flip their shit and call me judgmental and hypocritical and his army of trolls will swarm over me like flies on shit.

So figure it out yourselves.

JP is just a fad and a red herring. The perfect distraction from doing serious consciousness work. If you are following Actualized.org you should be way above that shit.

[Rilles]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I prepared a long ass video explaining all of JP's problems in painful detail. It is really a genius analysis.

But I never shot it because people would flip their shit and call me judgmental and hypocritical and his army of trolls will swarm over me like flies on shit.

So figure it out yourselves.

JP is just a fad and a red herring. The perfect distraction from doing serious consciousness work. If you are following Actualized.org you should be way above that shit.

I thought you should take in all perspectives? That they all have a kernel of truth to them? Without being ideological of course.

[Space]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I prepared a long ass video explaining all of JP's problems in painful detail. It is really a genius analysis.

But I never shot it because people would flip their shit and call me judgmental and hypocritical and his army of trolls will swarm over me like flies on shit.

Write it out into a blog post?

[Joel3102]

At least post it as a blog video!

[Outer]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I prepared a long ass video explaining all of JP's problems in painful detail. It is really a genius analysis.

But I never shot it because people would flip their shit and call me judgmental and hypocritical and his army of trolls will swarm over me like flies on shit.

So figure it out yourselves.

JP is just a fad and a red herring. The perfect distraction from doing serious consciousness work. If you are following Actualized.org you should be way above that shit.

Both parts of this one accurately describes JP and the limitations of his mostly traditional/modern view. Though it is accurately mentioned that he has postmodern and integral views as well and that JP is close to integral thinking.

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Outer

[Outer]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But I never shot it because people would flip their shit and call me judgmental and hypocritical and his army of trolls will swarm over me like flies on shit.

Why would people call you that?

[Krisena]

7 minutes ago, Outer said:

Why would people call you that?

That's the reaction that follows whenever anyone criticizes JP. From JP's fans of course, not the Actualized.org community.

[purerogue]

Can anyone explain to me what is  JP even discussed , only thing that here is to realize is that he himself starts to realize how pointless it is to argue and how more complex things actually are then he first thought ,  have not checked his latest videos, but he is doing some good actualizing on himself trough all the debates!  

[DnoReally]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I prepared a long ass video explaining all of JP's problems in painful detail. It is really a genius analysis.

But I never shot it

@Leo GuraThats a pity

[brugluiz]

I just watched a JP's video about Peter Pan syndrome and, you know, that's what I need. Some people here have a black or white thinking, and it's a shame. I understand the other levels of the Spiral, but, even if JP is too much individualistic, his teachings are still worthy. His teachings are especially worthy for me. I'm not a fanboy, but I'm interested on learning and improving myself. There's no shortcuts. If you want to evolve, you need to embrace even what Peterson preaches.

I really stopped caring about which Spiral's level I'm in and started taking action towards what I want in life. Before it, I was too picky and petty. That's a huge problem with SD: people become petty with this kind of shit.

I still value emotional healing. I still value hugging my male friends. I still value love. But I also value individualism, ego, survival, congruence, integrity and masculinity.

No thing can be built without the balance between feminine and masculine, between objectivity and subjectivity, between ego and Self, between materialism and spirituality and between ying and yang. That's what I need to live my life. SD is interesting, but it's often misundertood by petty people with delusional thoughts about reality.

Edited November 27, 2018 by brugluiz

[Freakyboo]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But I never shot it because people would flip their shit and call me judgmental and hypocritical and his army of trolls will swarm over me like flies on shit.

Please don't do it Leo.  I would love to never hear about or see JP's name ever again because he's everywhere and seems to bring out the worst in his fans especially.  You're right that his army would make you their mortal enemy as any criticism of their Daddy God is blasphemy.

[Quicksilver]

Read a book called Jordanetics. 

And with that lets put the topic to rest.

The man is a false prophet and he won't help you get anywhere in life with his ideology. 

 

[brugluiz]

1 hour ago, Quicksilver said:

Read a book called Jordanetics. 

And with that lets put the topic to rest.

The man is a false prophet and he won't help you get anywhere in life with his ideology. 

 

Aren't you having black or white thinking by telling JP's a false prophet?

Can't you learn anything with him? Because it seems if you're going to listen to someone, you have to follow his/her ideology. I don't know if it's healthy.