im confused

[andyjohnsonman]

I had a thought during meditation yesterday that i would like someone to help me answer - If non duality is the stripping away of all beliefs to reveal the ultimate truth that everything is consciousness, then how can thoughts be illusion as even though they are aren't grounded in direct experience they arise from consciousness which is the ultimate truth? 

[Forestluv]

Nice insight.

Do you see that any thought that arises has no more relevance than a bird chirp? It is all consciousness. 

[andyjohnsonman]

Yes well im starting to think that there is no ultimate truth maybe that is the delusion as the Buddhist insight of dependent origination suggests., Maybe these kind of advaita notions are the delusions and there is no direct experience as all experience is conditioned by previous experience? It's very confusing how a thought has no relevance if it is consciousness which is the ultimate truth.

[Forestluv]

@andyjohnsonman And all those thoughts about what is delusional are also within the One Consciousness, which is Everything.

Is there anything outside of Everything? Try to imagine some thing outside of Everything. You can’t do it. Any new thing that arises is within Everything. It’s all one giant Everything. No thing can be outside of Everything, So Everything = No Thing = Nothing

That touches upon the Absolute, which can be perceived as being relative. In the Absolute, all the pround Buddhist and Advaita teaching have no more significance than a pebble. It’s all within Everything. In relative perception, those Buddhist and Advaita teachings may have profound meaning - relative to the mind perceiving it.

[andyjohnsonman]

so how are thoughts illusion then if they are within this one consciousness which is everything which is absolute truth?

[Forestluv]

@andyjohnsonman Thoughts are illusion in a relative sense. In the Absolute sense there is No Thing. There is no separation. The idea of illusion is within Everything. The idea of not illusion is within Everything. There is No Thing in Everything.

The notion of Everything seems too simple to a mind. It thinks “wait a second. There must be more to it. What about this? What about that”. The mind will seek for the One. If it is fortunate, the mind will realize it is within the One. Any thing that happens or exists is within the One. The mind realizes it cannot be anything outside the One. There is no way out of Everything.

This is extremely unpalatable and maddening to the mind and it generally dismisses the realization as too simple. That can’t be “IT”. So it goes on searching for Everything unaware that it is Everything.

In the Absolute, Everything really really really means Everything. Absolutely no exceptions.

With this realization, perhaps your mind will relax and you will get direct experiences of this Everything. That’s when things get really fascinating. Liberation beyond imagination.

[Nahm]

@andyjohnsonman Believing and attaching to thoughts, awareness convinces itself there is a separate being, so there then is automatically an illusion of other than you.  With only the emptiness, it is clear there never was either. The emptiness is often first experienced as the ‘space inbetween the thoughts’, with attention kept on stomach breathing; deeply in meditation and as a practice 24/7 - instead of unconscious involuntarily lung breathing & over thinking.

Practices! 

Because thinking will not resolve / transcend thinking. Thinking will merely convince awareness that you have transcended thinking, so there’s still a ‘you’, thinking, in actuality, rather than awareness of actuality (awareness / being). 

Are you aware yet thought is linear - one at a time?   Why would this be the case, that not one of us can hold two thoughts at the same time?         (Should arouse suspicion at the least, no?)

Can you see how there is no such thing as a new  thought?   &.   That there is no such thing as a thing?  If there are no things, is there a calling for thoughts?

What are words, without thought? Does meaning remain, or cease?

What are words, without meaning? Does thinking cease?

What is the first, absolute word, which all other words are based on?

What is the first, absolute thought, which all other thoughts are based on?

How do you make a spoon disappear with your mind? When being appears. 

If there is “no direct experience because all experience is conditioned by past experience”; which are you actually experiencing in your direct awareness right now, “past conditioning”, or a thought about there being past conditioning, right now?

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Can you see how there is no such thing as a new  thought?

Well can “I”, “you”  

nice questions nahm

[ground]

8 hours ago, andyjohnsonman said:

I had a thought during meditation yesterday that i would like someone to help me answer - If non duality is the stripping away of all beliefs to reveal the ultimate truth that everything is consciousness, ...

... then it should also strip away the belief "everything is consciousness".

 

8 hours ago, andyjohnsonman said:

... then how can thoughts be illusion as even though they are aren't grounded in direct experience they arise from consciousness which is the ultimate truth? 

The belief "consciousness is the ultimat truth" is a thought and as such it is said to be illusory. Nevertheless for some this thought or idea is helpful. Ideas don't have to be true in order to be helpful. Just consider the illusory idea "Oh, there is no food at home, I have to go and buy some."

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by ground