Meditation -- posture, the positiion of your arms, legs, head matter?

[Guest gilded_honour]

I've been using Edhar Tolle's method "be here and now" for around 10 years, in everyday life. And occasionally actually sitting with my eyes closed and breathing meditating.

As for meditation when you're sitting still and breathing, does your posture and where  you put your arms and legs matter?
Or as long as you concentrate on your breathing and mind and be aware of your thoughts, you can put yourself in any posture, and put your arms and legs in any position you like? Even relaxing in jacuzzi?

 

Therefore, this or similar position isn't necessary?

 

 

Leo's videos don't explain this as I remember. Neither can I recall if I've read about it anywhere.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by gilded_honour

[ground]

46 minutes ago, gilded_honour said:

As for meditation when you're sitting still and breathing, does your posture and where  you put your arms and legs matter?

If someone tells you that it matters and you believe it then it matters.

If someone tells you that it does not matter and you believe it then it does not matters.

If someone tells you that it matters and you do not believe it then it does not matter.

If someone tells you that it does not matters and you do not believe it then it does not matter either.

If you are free of belief nothing matters.

Meditation is not important.

Don't believe me!

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by ground

[Guest gilded_honour]

Aminh

[Shin]

The only thing that matter is to have a posture in which you will not personally get sleepy.

Everything else is dogmatic bs imo

[Guest gilded_honour]

Is absense of noise important for meditation?

[Hellspeed]

It matter and not. Depends what stage are you in, how fine have you developed your awareness and sensibility. The Breath and Kundalini will show you which position to take. We all in different stages of awareness. The sitting position is for those very advanced because has a double bind. 

In the beginning stages if you sit, you automatically impair Kundalini. Yogis know this, gurus know this, this is the reason they initiate like this, so they will have followers many years. 

One of the best meditation positions is squat! 

[Mu_]

For the most part it does not matter, unless you are trying to do certain energetic holds to open up kundalini/meridians, otherwise as Shin says, just in a position your likely not to fall asleep.

However I will say that the point of meditation is not to be aware of your mind and thoughts as a intention (sure you can focus on your breath if you like as a point of focus, but even that you may want to let go of at some point).  When you meditate you want to just close your eyes and let thoughts, mind, time, feelings, the world, be.....  Inherently thoughts, time, feelings, mind, the world will be experienced in this process, but not as the intention of focus.  Does that makes sense.  In the dropping of interaction with these human focused things, hidden depths, understanding and awareness and perhaps even recognition of who and what you really are will emerge.  Does that make sense?

This is of course from how I learned, is there a reason you were taught to be aware of your thoughts, mind and even breath?

Edited November 25, 2018 by Mu_

[Guest gilded_honour]

That makes sense, but it's not enough.

Does Leo has have videos about meditation except those 2 basic ones? Explanantion of how to meditate in great detail.

 Or books or videos from other sources? Everyone teaches it differently, and some information may be wrong.

[Shin]

28 minutes ago, gilded_honour said:

That makes sense, but it's not enough.

Does Leo has have videos about meditation except those 2 basic ones? Explanantion of how to meditate in great detail.

 Or books or videos from other sources? Everyone teaches it differently, and some information may be wrong.

You're searching an excuse not to start.

Meditation is the easiest thing in the world, you just need to sit and not doing anything.

There is no "it must be done like this, then switch to that, finally do this", this is dogmatic bs that makes meditation looks complicated to make you pay for it (because it looks "Professional").

[Nahm]

@gilded_honour

 Sit w back straight, head tilted slightly forward, and achieve complete relaxation of every single muscle, to the point that surrender is a more accurate word. You want the body to be as relaxed as it is in deep sleep, with your energy at full intensity - as if you were waiting for a burglar to round the corner to pounce on him. Every cell should be awake and ready. If posture is poor, or you aren’t meditating first thing in the morning, you’ll dose off, or lean / fall over, or you’ll not be physically balanced and therefore tensing certain muscles to counter balance / stay straight (not lean / fall) without noticing you’re tensing because you are used to tension in the body, and therefore don’t notice it. The very thing (tension) that you’re unaware of is the point here, and awareness itself is the ‘cure’.

Carry this into each day and sustain it - awareness of any tension in any muscle, and relax it, awareness of the culmination of all senses with intensity, mindful of every sense individually, without identification / reaction. This is not habitual, but nonengagement, full of awareness, and complete detachment through awareness of all habits / conditioning (aware of them, wether they are happening or not doesn’t matter, awareness is curative and worthy of trust.)

When you notice reaction, wether muscular or mental, relax, and return to fully aware, and nonreactionary. 

Even as reactions occur, wether physical or verbal, be aware of, not involved in. Back out / relax out of it, and stay aware.

Notice the sound of a voice, is not the sound of your voice. Be that unattached, and that aware. ‘that’ voice is no longer your voice.

Notice thoughts are not your thoughts, be aware thoughts are things, like trees are trees; there is no mechanism or justification of  “yours” to be found, that is just another thought; awareness is unconditional and omnipresent, and never appears in pieces, as it has never not appeared.

If you experience some ego freak out, a “mantra” can be useful, and I’d consider: “Only awareness is aware of awareness” (said as a prayer would be, as if you’re telling someone “It’s ok, everything’s ok”.)        Don’t “mantra” unless it feels needed. Allow any emotions to arise, and play out, be aware and that is enough. 

 

After some practice a couple new things arise...

When you have ‘returned home’ so to speak, in nonreaction, the finite ceo / “decision maker”/ over thinker/over thinking - naturally recedes, and the intelligence will manipulate the body (it actually is “the body”) , aligning things, stretching things, cracking things, etc, just allow this. It’s difficult not to mentally react to this at first because it’s new, just relax again, it is curative, trust it. 

With enough surrender, deep relaxation, the brain & body & thought will start to disappear, and only breathing exists. The breathe will minimize on it’s own (don’t “attempt” or “do” this) until there is literally no breathing. In “witnessing” the falsity or illusionary nature of the breathe, awareness is aware of awareness. This is a euphoric experience. Don’t go telling people. They will not believe you, and you’ll sound crazy, cause, of course we have to breathe, otherwise we would not be “alive”. 

 

 

 

 

[Nahm]

@gilded_honour

Scroll down a bit on this thread for some traditional meditations. There’s also a link to some lessor known meditations too. Enjoy!

 

[Enizeo]

@ground Beautiful answer Thanks!

@Nahm Wow, incredible description! How did you find that posture when the body just sits on it's own without any muscle tension? My back muscles always hurt after a while because they are just a little bit tense to keep the upper body upright and from falling over.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Enizeo
Added comment for Nahm

[Nahm]

@Enizeo I hear that. I had the same problem in meditation as well as lower back issues for years, sciatic, etc. Tried Dr’s, chiropractors, shots of cortisone , changes in diet, etc. It has been a nonissue, 100% for a few years now. What I found:

An exercise which basically looks like laying on your stomach, and raising each foot, one at a time, up into the air, as far as possible, without straining. Takes five minutes a day, and the benefit accumulates over time. I do this standing, using a Bowflex, with 100 pounds of resistance. (Start with laying on the floor, with no added resistance.)

Specific foods like carbonated beverages, and sugar caused inflation, making the issue far worse. 

 

So relative to meditation, it’s an issue because the back muscles are not as strong as the rest of the muscles in the body. Once there are stronger, it’s a nonissue. You’ll forget it. 

Paradoxically (always right?) you’ll eventually  be able to relax every muscle, all the way down the back, hips, legs, while effortlessly sitting up straight, for having put in the effort. 

I sit on a meditation cushion, made for meditation, not a misc pillow. This is important so as to be sitting up straight without flexing any tiny muscles in the hips, back or otherwise unnecessarily. It’s tricky too, because it can take 30 minutes of meditation just to feel a tiny muscle finally relax / inflexible. Also, head slightly tilted forward/down is important too. I’d think of it as the opposite of the initial point of drifting off towards falling asleep. 

[Guest gilded_honour]

6 hours ago, Shin said:

You're searching an excuse not to start.

Meditation is the easiest thing in the world, you just need to sit and not doing anything.

There is no "it must be done like this, then switch to that, finally do this", this is dogmatic bs that makes meditation looks complicated to make you pay for it (because it looks "Professional").

You have no idea whether I've started already or not and who I am and so on.

Better go read political news and make predictions there :))))

Edited November 27, 2018 by gilded_honour

[Enizeo]

@Nahm Thank you! I've already started training my lower back (doing bridges at the moment, but I'll try what you suggested too) and recently cleaned up my diet. It is really empowering to hear from you that this apparently is the right path and that with time the issue will resolve.

Have you experimented with different cushion heights? A friend has told me that mine is apparently quite high. It's the first and only one I ever got, so while I'm used to it and feel comfortable with it, I'm not sure if it's ideal.

[Guest gilded_honour]

@Nahm you read or watched that technique or way of doing meditation somewhere, right? Where?

[Nahm]

@gilded_honour Not really. It’s a culmination from over the years, things I’ve tried.

[Forestluv]

@Nahm Most of my students dislike posture. They are like kids - slumping, squirming, fidgeting. Maybe I should start docking them points for poor posture 

[Nahm]

@Enizeo Hey, sorry, I missed your post somehow.   Yes, I’ve tried different heights. I usually use this one for an hour or more sit...

https://www.google.com/search?q=meditation+cushion&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIst_C7IbfAhUNP60KHejxCDYQ_AUoAnoECBoQAg&biw=1366&bih=922#imgrc=o7sdyjAZ2TVWXM

And a pretty generic round cushion for shorter sits.

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv lol.  Tell em bout kundalini & tantra. ?