Confused with where I am on the Spiral

[Ampresus]

Hello everyone. When I first joined this forum I was probably Blue. Not deeply, but to a certain degree for sure. I was muslim. I have put that behind me, but I am struggling  with a few things.

I am young and telling my parents that I am not a believer in ''the one and holy God and his prophet Mohammed'' will literally make them hate me. I wouldn't be scared of that if I wasn't dependent on their support. I am planning to be completely on my own when I am 18, but right now I am still 14 years old. Should I just participate in things like Ramadan? I already don't celebrate much in the islamic holidays, but if I for example eat non-halal food my parents would destroy me. On the other hand, when I asked for healthy food advice on this forum people said that I shouldn't eat meat that much at all. So it is kind of a win-win situation to a certain degree, at least for me. 

Am I supposed to observe my behavior and needs to find out where I am on the Spiral? What I do know is that I don't care much about material stuff, do care about my career and spirituality, have some Green in me, would like to engage in New Age stuff and want to go on a Vipassana retreat. I have my eye on a girl in my class, my grades are good and sports are going well. When I was younger I looked up things to manipulate other people, but couldn't get it over my heart to engage in those activities. I grew up most of the time telling the truth and now instead of lying I try to make it clear when I don't want to share something with someone. 

Any advice will be highly wanted. Thanks for your time. Take care.

[now is forever]

@Ampresus why telling them you don’t believe in the same god they believe into, if it breaks their heart? - and is that even true just because your parents trust in a holy book and you don’t? 

if you want to experience ramadan why not just try it as a personal challenge? i’m sure there is a lot to learn and if you do some meditation alongside the fasting, more so. just mix and match.

fasting can be very healthy, if you don’t go as far as not drinking water anymore. also maybe then being very considerate in what you eat in the night. i would just make it my own game while trying to learn something about nutrition alongside the fasting or in preparation to it. not doing it alone is really helpful, too. so think of it as a free experience you can get from the community you are growing up with and compare it to what fasting in general means and why people everywhere on the world do it. if you stay mindful you can even observe the indoctrination mechanisms - while still growing together with the people you are doing the experience with, doing it alone but not alone 

Edited November 18, 2018 by now is forever

[Nahm]

Accept the ease of relating via Jibra'il, ?❤️.

Venture inclusively and you will expand swiftly. Be like water with such situations, not a dualistic sledge hammer. What is the power of love found in such a bond, that your parents would die for you, as a reaction. The discipline involved in self love is eluding you. 

How many Gods do you figure there are anyways?

[StardewValley]

First of all, I think we have a little bit of every stage in all of us. So, you will always have beige, purple, red, and blue inside of you. They are integrated into you. 

For example, your purple stage would be your connection to your family. Your red stage would be your ability to stand up for yourself and take action. Your blue stage would be your sense of right and wrong. 

Which paragraph do you resonate with more? These are taken from spiraldynamicsintegral.nl.

"Orange is recognized by the drive for personal results, success and status. Orange is very explorative and can pragmatically switch in different situations. For Orange, there are many ways, which lead to Rome; there’s never just one solution and if you can’t go the way you should, then you should go any way you can. Orange wants to play the game and wants to do fun things with fun people. Orange is positive, enjoys live and the achieved results."

"You can recognize Green by striving for harmony, enriching the inner world and the need to make real (on an emotional level) contact with each other. Green will accept the other as he or she is and likes to work together to stimulate individual development, so people can become who they really are. Green is open-minded and accepts differences in people and in opinions."

"Yellow is recognized by the large amount of ideas, connections and complexity that it introduces. Yellow’s starting point is an overarching vision about a system (on an individual, group, organizational, national, planetary and/or cosmic level) and then determines what the system needs to grow and blossom. In order to do so, Yellow will pass by personal and purely human-orientated interests. Yellow is also characterized by an enormous drive and focus (Yellow knows exactly in which direction it wants to move). Yellow has the ability to look far into the future and, at the same time, keep things close at home and integrate the past. Yellow often has visionary and revolutionary ideas about the future."

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by StardewValley

[Aimblack]

You don't actually need to stop being a muslim all the practice that needs to be done can be done in the context of Islam. You can use the prayers as meditation and replace your usual meditation practice with it. The prayers you cant with the beats are actually mantras you can do the movements mindfully in the frame of basic mindfulness(Shinzen young). And if your parents aren't fundamentalists you can check out the sufi tradtion which is the mystic branch of Islam. If you are creative you can grow for the next 4 years without issues until you move out and can do whatever you want to.

[Ampresus]

8 hours ago, now is forever said:

why telling them you don’t believe in the same god they believe into, if it breaks their heart?

@now is forever because it breaks their heart? This question doesn't make sense. 

 

8 hours ago, now is forever said:

if you want to experience ramadan why not just try it as a personal challenge? i’m sure there is a lot to learn and if you do some meditation alongside the fasting, more so. just mix and match.

fasting can be very healthy, if you don’t go as far as not drinking water anymore. also maybe then being very considerate in what you eat in the night. i would just make it my own game while trying to learn something about nutrition alongside the fasting or in preparation to it. not doing it alone is really helpful, too. so think of it as a free experience you can get from the community you are growing up with and compare it to what fasting in general means and why people everywhere on the world do it. if you stay mindful you can even observe the indoctrination mechanisms - while still growing together with the people you are doing the experience with, doing it alone but not alone 

@now is forever Thanks for the advice.

[Ampresus]

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

How many Gods do you figure there are anyways?

@Nahm I wanted to wait with this question until I have some kind of enlightenment experience and can tell out of experience instead of out blind belief.

 

 

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

Venture inclusively and you will expand swiftly. Be like water with such situations, not a dualistic sledge hammer. What is the power of love found in such a bond, that your parents would die for you, as a reaction. The discipline involved in self love is eluding you.

@Nahm I guess you are right here. What a shame if the love of both my parents somehow made me suffer, but I understand your point.

[Ampresus]

2 hours ago, StardewValley said:

First of all, I think we have a little bit of every stage in all of us. So, you will always have beige, purple, red, and blue inside of you. They are integrated into you. 

For example, your purple stage would be your connection to your family. Your red stage would be your ability to stand up for yourself and take action. Your blue stage would be your sense of right and wrong. 

Which paragraph do you resonate with more? These are taken from spiraldynamicsintegral.nl.

"Orange is recognized by the drive for personal results, success and status. Orange is very explorative and can pragmatically switch in different situations. For Orange, there are many ways, which lead to Rome; there’s never just one solution and if you can’t go the way you should, then you should go any way you can. Orange wants to play the game and wants to do fun things with fun people. Orange is positive, enjoys live and the achieved results."

"You can recognize Green by striving for harmony, enriching the inner world and the need to make real (on an emotional level) contact with each other. Green will accept the other as he or she is and likes to work together to stimulate individual development, so people can become who they really are. Green is open-minded and accepts differences in people and in opinions."

"Yellow is recognized by the large amount of ideas, connections and complexity that it introduces. Yellow’s starting point is an overarching vision about a system (on an individual, group, organizational, national, planetary and/or cosmic level) and then determines what the system needs to grow and blossom. In order to do so, Yellow will pass by personal and purely human-orientated interests. Yellow is also characterized by an enormous drive and focus (Yellow knows exactly in which direction it wants to move). Yellow has the ability to look far into the future and, at the same time, keep things close at home and integrate the past. Yellow often has visionary and revolutionary ideas about the future."

@StardewValley Small bits of all three really. Succes from Orange is important for me, but the entire competitiveness is a no. Green, just a little bit. Harmony sounds about right. And focus and visualization with Yellow really resonates with me. All the other stuff I can throw out the window because it isn't me.

[Ampresus]

1 hour ago, Aimblack said:

You don't actually need to stop being a muslim all the practice that needs to be done can be done in the context of Islam. You can use the prayers as meditation and replace your usual meditation practice with it. The prayers you cant with the beats are actually mantras you can do the movements mindfully in the frame of basic mindfulness(Shinzen young). And if your parents aren't fundamentalists you can check out the sufi tradtion which is the mystic branch of Islam. If you are creative you can grow for the next 4 years without issues until you move out and can do whatever you want to.

@Aimblack Yeah I am planning to get more into Sufism, but when I looked it up their dances scared me. I want to buy a book I found about Sufism to get a nice introduction. Maybe later visit a mosque of theirs, if they have any at all here. I tried replacing my prayers with meditation, but couldn't keep it after 20 mins (2 times 10 mins). I want to stick to just 30 min a day, without breaks. The movement of prayers is why I hate it, my legs hurt so much if I just try to sit down in the typical way. I am glad that I don't pray 5 times a day, what a fucking waste of time. I get stressed when I am uncomfy and guess what, it happens regularly during prayers. Somehow meditation doesn't have that issue. 

[Arkandeus]

You do not have to abandon your religion entirely

You can live your religion on a different level, as part of the whole that makes the universe

What would your parents say if you were a muslim But you practice it minimally, and you practice the religion on your own terms

Say for me I was raised christian, then I became atheist, then buddhist and now I am muslim christian hindu jew vegetarian meat eater hippie unity law of one transdimensional.. if I heard about it I am it!

Every part of this world is a part of us, thats my view

Whether you are muslim or not you should live your freedom

What I mean is that such a label doesn't mean anything, either way life is what it is, and you will live your life the way you see fit, some label is not going to change that

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Aimblack]

31 minutes ago, Ampresus said:

@Aimblack Yeah I am planning to get more into Sufism, but when I looked it up their dances scared me. I want to buy a book I found about Sufism to get a nice introduction. Maybe later visit a mosque of theirs, if they have any at all here. I tried replacing my prayers with meditation, but couldn't keep it after 20 mins (2 times 10 mins). I want to stick to just 30 min a day, without breaks. The movement of prayers is why I hate it, my legs hurt so much if I just try to sit down in the typical way. I am glad that I don't pray 5 times a day, what a fucking waste of time. I get stressed when I am uncomfy and guess what, it happens regularly during prayers. Somehow meditation doesn't have that issue. 

If you really can't stand it then well then that's the end I guess, but can you practice other meditations safely? If no maybe trying to outgrow your dislike of religion/Islam/prayer can help you grow a lot. In my experience facing the things I dislike the most also grows me the most. I used to really hate religions(I binge watched darkmatter2525 and other atheist content) and Christianity in particular. Now I can genuinely take the perspective of a Christian which makes my life WAY easier because the emotion that gets triggered is love, imagine being able to love the culture that you share with your parents wouldn't it be way cooler than being distanced from them? 

[now is forever]

3 hours ago, Ampresus said:

 

11 hours ago, now is forever said:

why telling them you don’t believe in the same god they believe into, if it breaks their heart?

@now is forever because it breaks their heart? This question doesn't make sense. 

 

can totally understand!!! and yes it makes sense - but it’s not exactly wise.  it will brake yours as well. you want to find a way to see the world with your eyes and the world from other perspectives and to do so you feel that you have to rebel and you are exactly at the age where it gets juicy. 

see you are like a bird wanting to leave a nest trying to fly free with the other birds completely, and therefore you feel the urge to severe the bonds that hold you, and that’s fine but not yet, you still need your nest and you can still learn some things.

it’s not their heart you want to brake - it is the bonds that hold you.

Edited November 18, 2018 by now is forever

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Ampresus said:

@Nahm I wanted to wait with this question until I have some kind of enlightenment experience and can tell out of experience instead of out blind belief.

@Nahm I guess you are right here. What a shame if the love of both my parents somehow made me suffer, but I understand your point.

I hear you, and I agree, but there’s no harm in talking...do you think there is your God, and your parents’ God, is what I was getting at. Perhaps this subject is simple and easy, and too much thinking could cause tension were it is not needed. 

I agree there too. It would be a shame if love made someone suffer. I guess some people just can’t stand love. 

 

“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” - Rumi 

[Jack River]

You are the spiral

One “progressive” unit of “movement/time”. 

Step out...end that movement. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Jack River

[Elisabeth]

It's safe to assume you have some blue, some orange and some green, with a center of gravity probably still in orange. I think so, because

- You say you've been blue previously, but now you react against religion.

- You're a teen living in the Netherlands. Which would be a mostly orange-green country. And (in my understanding of the spiral) it's natural for kids your age to move into orange and focus on their individual achievements in the world.

- For some reason you started to watch Leo and you're interested in the green stuff, but you're just starting out with the practices.

So a mostly orange mix it is, opening up to green perhaps, but with a lot of orange stuff yet unfinished (imho you can't have orange all done until you've earned your own living). See how you're still blue, live out orange, explore green, and don't let yourself be bothered by spiral dynamics too much - the development is happening out of your natural curiosity , you don't have to push.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Elisabeth

[now is forever]

@Elisabeth it might be that kids in the netherlands as well as in other neighboring countries are already quite green naturally, it’s part of our youth culture - it already was in the 90’s. so there is a natural push.

but i agree, it’s ok to be a little orange. (whatever that means in the neatherlands )

Edited November 19, 2018 by now is forever

[Elisabeth]

12 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@Elisabeth it might be that kids in the netherlands as well as in other neighboring countries are already quite green naturally, it’s part of our youth culture - it already was in the 90’s

Possibly. In Prague on my (quite elite) school, 15 years ago, I remember there were 2-3 green kids in class (who cared about the environment and stuff), there could be more nowadays, and more in the Netherlands. 

[now is forever]

47 minutes ago, Elisabeth said:

Possibly. In Prague on my (quite elite) school, 15 years ago, I remember there were 2-3 green kids in class (who cared about the environment and stuff), there could be more nowadays, and more in the Netherlands. 

yes you are right, he surely already is part of the cool kids.

[aurum]

14 hours ago, Ampresus said:

Hello everyone. When I first joined this forum I was probably Blue. Not deeply, but to a certain degree for sure. I was muslim. I have put that behind me, but I am struggling  with a few things.

I am young and telling my parents that I am not a believer in ''the one and holy God and his prophet Mohammed'' will literally make them hate me. I wouldn't be scared of that if I wasn't dependent on their support. I am planning to be completely on my own when I am 18, but right now I am still 14 years old. Should I just participate in things like Ramadan? I already don't celebrate much in the islamic holidays, but if I for example eat non-halal food my parents would destroy me. On the other hand, when I asked for healthy food advice on this forum people said that I shouldn't eat meat that much at all. So it is kind of a win-win situation to a certain degree, at least for me. 

Am I supposed to observe my behavior and needs to find out where I am on the Spiral? What I do know is that I don't care much about material stuff, do care about my career and spirituality, have some Green in me, would like to engage in New Age stuff and want to go on a Vipassana retreat. I have my eye on a girl in my class, my grades are good and sports are going well. When I was younger I looked up things to manipulate other people, but couldn't get it over my heart to engage in those activities. I grew up most of the time telling the truth and now instead of lying I try to make it clear when I don't want to share something with someone. 

Any advice will be highly wanted. Thanks for your time. Take care.

I grew up Catholic, and it was extreme difficult for me to tell my family about how I saw things differently. So I understand your position.

I don't know how strict your parents are, but considering you're 14 my answer is to keep your mouth shut. Not forever. But this isn't something I would recommend just dropping like a bomb right now. Be more strategic about it.

[brugluiz]

Just posting to complement what @aurum said.

I also grew up Catholic and it was just a mess to confront religion in my family. My parents know I'm not Catholic anymore (I'm 28), but I respect their point of view (that's probably why they respect me). I don't get too much attached to Spiral Dynamics but I still find it fascinating. My parents are probably Blue, but, you know, it doesn't matter. I love them anyway and I know they love me too much.

Despite of Spiral Dynamics' colors, there's a universal law that is about Love and Fear. Love and Fear can be found in any Spiral's level. Look at it before trying to figure out where you are in the spiral.

I hope it helps.

Cheers!