Paradox or not?

[zambize]

I hear a lot of talk about non-duality, and how the truth is "one", can not be categorized etc.,  I'm not going to pretend like I've had a non-dual experience and know what I'm talking about...  However, isn't saying reality is non-dual a duality in itself.  If reality is truly non-dual, shouldn't it be neither non-dual or dual?  We are neither one, nor not one?  

[Aaron p]

Nothing exists other than pure reality (apparently). Even the statement that everything is false, is false. Words and thoughts alike, create (what you might think of as) a parallel world...a reflection of reality.

Reality is not what you think it is, because what you think reality is, is still just a thought and not actually reality.

This leaves one inherent problem, you cannot be told how to find enlightenment.

 

Moral of the story, don't trust words or thoughts. I'm not saying don't use them, you need to (at the start) for your spiritual walk to happen. I don't know how, it just is lol. The best advice i can give...is believe nothing, especially everything I'm telling you right now

[Joseph Maynor]

Yep.  First stage is Ego.  Second stage is No-Ego.  Third stage is No-Ego and Ego.  Most people do not understand the third stage because it is a paradox, and most people dismiss paradoxes as inherently false. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Aaron p]

Leave no room for anything else other than pure, raw, present REALITY baby. and you'll be on your way to FUCKEN ENLIGHTENMENT like me ;);)

Edited November 17, 2018 by Aaron p

[Leo Gura]

@zambize There exist some things which cannot be gotten at with words.

So how do you go about talking about such things to people who have not experienced them?

Here we are.

If we didn't call it nonduality what would be call it? How would we let you know this thing exists?

Maybe we should call it "chicken" from now on and see if that solves the problem.

There is no way to get around the fact that incommunicable things exist. You can try for a million years and you will never solve this problem. Because an unspeakable thing cannot be spoken, by definition.

[zambize]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@zambize There exist some things which cannot be gotten at with words.

So how do you go about talking about such things to people who have not experienced them?

Here we are.

If we didn't call it nonduality what would be call it? How would we let you know this thing exists?

Maybe we should call it "chicken" from now on and see if that solves the problem.

There is no way to get around the fact that incommunicable things exist. You can try for a million years and you will never solve this problem. Because an unspeakable thing cannot be spoken, by definition.

I totally get there is a language problem, and that at the end of the day you see the need to communicate something that you are bound to communicate imperfectly when you do, because it simply can't be communicated.  I was looking more for the implications of this on reality.  Is there anything significant to the fact that we can't use the word non-dual.  In a sense, does that mean reality CAN be categorized, or partially, or neither is accurate to say?   

 

On the note of incommunicable, how does one decide something is incommunicable vs. they just haven't tried enough.  Do you just "know" right when you experience something, or do you try for some amount of months or years and give up?  How am I supposed to differentiate incommunicable from really really really really hard to communicate?  I know this is subtle, but it seems dangerous to me to label something incommunicable/unspeakable etc. without being absolutely sure it isn't, and I'm wondering where you make that distinction.  

 

Anyways, thanks for the reply, love your videos,  I don't think i'd have had nearly as religious of acid trips if not for you, certainly gave experiences I never expected to have!  Much love Leo

 

[Leo Gura]

@zambize Take a psychedelic and see for yourself.

All of these questions you have will be answered.

[Nahm]

@zambize What’s it like, tripping on acid? I’ve never taken acid, but explain it so that I know, to the exact same degree that you know, so then it would be as if we both experienced acid.

[Leo Gura]

@Nahm Time for you to schedule that acid trip, buddy

[Nahm]

@Leo Gura Yup.

[Arkandeus]

Quote

I'm not going to pretend like I've had a non-dual experience and know what I'm talking about... 

@zambize

You are having a non-dual experience right now, everyday

Imagine you're driving a blue car, while you're doing that you pretend to be driving a red car...to the point where you forget you've been driving a blue car and you truly believe you're driving a red car

Further on the read you meet other drivers who yell at you from their car that you've been driving a blue car all along.

You can't seem to comprehend, you want to find out what it feels like to drive a blue car again, because to you it still feels like you're driving a red car!

As you can see its pretty simple! You are feeling right now what it feels like to drive the blue car!

And interestingly it is also what it feels like to drive a red car!

You're always driving! Whether you feel you're driving a blue car or a yellow car, that's absolute

[zambize]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@zambize Take a psychedelic and see for yourself.

All of these questions you have will be answered.

I feel like my best results have come from not taking your word on anything and just exploring myself, but in the case you are right, I really look forward to that.  Certainly must be a beautiful realization.  I'll see where I get on those questions with some shrooms I have laying around, I see you have a tutorial for using psychedelics for personal development which I appreciate, anyways much love

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, zambize said:

not taking your word on anything and just exploring myself

That is precisely what I am suggesting you do.

My words are merely describing what you will find there.

[zambize]

10 hours ago, Nahm said:

@zambize What’s it like, tripping on acid? I’ve never taken acid, but explain it so that I know, to the exact same degree that you know, so then it would be as if we both experienced acid.

I'll do my best to describe acid from the perspective of someone still trying to figure stuff out.  

On small amounts of acid, it really isn't too much different to me than some of my deeper meditations.  I look out into the woods and I'm very widely aware of the landscape.  Everyday life I usually see just one object, for example my cup in front of me, but the rest of the table is rather blurry and I'm not exactly sure what's going on in the peripherals.  On acid this really widens out, such that you can feel like you are much of the table, or are kind of simultaneously focusing on it all at once.  As you increase the amount of the acid, this lack of blurriness on my peripherals tends to make the experience come off as rather cartoony in nature.  I think it's also why patterns and complex images are often associated with acid, because you are able to experience so much of the complexity at once, and it's honestly beautiful.   If you take enough acid, you kind of go into what I call full sending a drug to my friends, and it's kind of that point where you are in such a new unfamiliar head-space that you almost get disoriented and have to take a second to rethink reality because you've been hit with such unfamiliar body sensations as well as vibrating and other strange sensations that I'm still wrapping my head around.  Thoughts are very insightful, but they fly away so quickly.  You can be explaining what feels like one of the deepest realizations to your friend, and then a second later you're looking at him, and you don't know if you are explaining something to him, or him to you.  So  I might suggest a journal, or something to keep track of thoughts because they are going to flood in, and if you don't write them down or something, you're going to lose a lot of good material.  It can also be pretty emotional,  I consider myself pretty even-keep in terms of emotions, and I remember seeing pictures of me and my brother pop up and my mind, and thinking of the things i'd have to give up to carry on this adventure.  One last thing, is it's had kind of a different message each time, and the experiences have varied in many capacities, one trip was all about the importance of listening,  another about how I need to be better about spreading my love to more than just those who are easy to love, and this most recent one I had what felt like an ego-death experience, as well as the importance of having fun on this journey.  Some people seem to peak at different times to, takes 3-4 hours for me, so be aware of that before you pop two more tabs an hour or two in because you don't feel anything and your friend is off the wall talking about puppet masters and what not.  I think I took a lot of shots I hope any of that is helpful or interesting,  I would totally recommend it, especially sense the insightfulness of the drug comes out at really small doses, you could prolly do 10-20 micrograms (1-2/10 standard tab) and have some really good thoughts and get some feel for the headspace.

Also let me link this, I haven't gotten to it yet, but I'm sure it's got something for you in it.

 

 

[Nahm]

@zambize Awesome & thanks. Also, my post

14 hours ago, Nahm said:

@zambize What’s it like, tripping on acid? I’ve never taken acid, but explain it so that I know, to the exact same degree that you know, so then it would be as if we both experienced acid.

was about

On 11/17/2018 at 2:13 PM, zambize said:

I hear a lot of talk about non-duality, and how the truth is "one", can not be categorized etc.,  I'm not going to pretend like I've had a non-dual experience and know what I'm talking about...  However, isn't saying reality is non-dual a duality in itself.  If reality is truly non-dual, shouldn't it be neither non-dual or dual?  We are neither one, nor not one?  

Nonduality & words, is like psychedelics & words. How can a person who’s experienced finite understand infinitude. “Oneness” doesn’t really communicate Infinite, and “infinite” can never communicate the you of nonduality. Sounds like you are doing well on the path man. Godspeed??❤️