Isn't the whole nonduality vs. duality thing itself a duality?

[EternalForest]

Also the whole idea of the "true self" and the "false self" seems like another duality, under non-duality isn't the false self also the true self (or at least within it?)

[FoxFoxFox]

Yes.

[Forestluv]

Yup. It’s all one everything / nothing. Fun stuff.

[Seiden]

Yes/No depending on your point of view.

On a certain level yes because we have to use language and language is dualistic and it makes it seems like there is a duality.

But in a metaphysical level no, Because Duality is an illusion, and Non-Duality is the truth.

For example if you see a huge monster in your dream while sleeping surely it is real for you at that moment, but when you wake up you don’t understand how you felt on that illusion, an illusion so convincing that you would bet it was real while sleeping.

The same with true self and false, only the true self is real, the false self or the ego is just like the huge monster on the example seems like it is there but it isn’t.

 

Blessings, and thank you for the interesting question.

[lmfao]

@EternalForest The thing that "Non-duality" is trying to point to is an experience beyond words and language, and "Non-duality" itself is composed of words and everything I type to you is words. Quite funny eh? Are all the words I type to you completely void of meaning? Who knows?!

Edited November 14, 2018 by lmfao

[EternalForest]

@Seiden

6 minutes ago, Seiden said:

Because Duality is an illusion, and Non-Duality is the truth.

But just by knowing that logically doesn't change the fact that I'm living in a duel world. Because the fact remains that yes even though I may conceptualize my perceptions, that doesn't make my perceptions a conception. Let's assume everything I look at, decorations, mirrors, lights, stairs, food, floors, laptop, everything is just something I've conceptualized, then what am I really looking at? 

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, EternalForest said:

@Seiden

But just by knowing that logically doesn't change the fact that I'm living in a duel world. Because the fact remains that yes even though I may conceptualize my perceptions, that doesn't make my perceptions a conception. Let's assume everything I look at, decorations, mirrors, lights, stairs, food, floors, laptop, everything is just something I've conceptualized, then what am I really looking at? 

If you deeply examine that question, your mind will eventually disappear into the answer.

[Seiden]

@EternalForest Thanks for the reply.

13 minutes ago, EternalForest said:

@Seiden

But just by knowing that logically doesn't change the fact that I'm living in a duel world. 

Yes, knowing it really doesn’t change anything because you could believe that this is a simulation or a game or a movie or a dream or an illusion and still suffer.

That is why we need direct experiences of non-duality, because then it truly has an impact.

I could answer what you are looking when you see all those things you mentioned, but it will not satisfy you, sorry.

(Just to not let you curious:

you are not really looking at anything ( or, you are looking to nothingness) because there is nothing (not even people) there, all you are seeing is the projection of your mind created by yourself)

Edited November 14, 2018 by Seiden
typo

[EternalForest]

@lmfao Yep, and language is finite, there's finite words and finite combinations of those words. Not to mention finite letters and sounds to create new words.

[EternalForest]

@winterknight Hey thanks again for answering my question on your enlightenment megathread. And I'll be sure to do that and update you if I get anywhere. I actually was inspired to make this post after researching the Neti Neti method, cause I'm just learning about that, so maybe it'll help me out.

[EternalForest]

@Seiden I did once have an experience like that, although at the time I didn't realize what it was. I was sitting in my basement looking around at all the stuff down there and just thought to my self, this is all just...stuff. There's no form to it. That probably won't make sense. I wasn't thinking this with my mind, it was based on pure experience. Then I felt like I was just "stuff", the same "stuff" that was around me. And I not longer saw the "stuff" as objects. Hard to explain.

[Seiden]

It makes sense.

[Haumea2018]

Quote

Let's assume everything I look at, decorations, mirrors, lights, stairs, food, floors, laptop, everything is just something I've conceptualized, then what am I really looking at? 

Something that can be perceived directly, without the filter of conceptualization.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Haumea2018

[now is forever]

2 hours ago, EternalForest said:

Also the whole idea of the "true self" and the "false self" seems like another duality, under non-duality isn't the false self also the true self (or at least within it?)

is a rainbow dual in its colors, so where is the opposite of the rainbow?

[EternalForest]

@Seiden Sure, but how do I know that just wasn't some good feeling, and then I went back on with life. I could tell you about a lot of "good feelings" I've had before, all unique and different from the one I described. How do I know those feelings wouldn't verify some other worldview?

Edit: For example, when I was a Christian I would open up the Bible to a certain page and it would apply to the situation I was having at that moment, or when I asked God for answers if I opened up the Bible at random it would seem like that answered my questions. But then I realized, why can't God speak to me directly? If my "true self" had my best interests in mind, why wouldn't "it" tell me the truth, or allow me to experience it? How do I know through my seeking that I'm not just looking for the information I want to find (confirmation bias)?

Edited November 14, 2018 by EternalForest

[Seiden]

@EternalForest Hi, Yes I understand how you feel, its kind of scary because we ex chtistians usually have this fear  of “What if this is the same feeling as the holy spirit I felt when I was reading the bible, or praying,

Maybe there is no God? Its nothing spiritual maybe it was just my brain doing funny things to my body and my mind all along?”

But then again there must be a reason of why you aren’t a Christian anymore, why is that? dont tell me, but think

probably it didnt made you happy isnt it? maybe the rules, the people, the guilt. I dont know.

 

now, how are you feeling now?

Are you feeling better?

Base everything you believe in that, in your direct experience. 

Doubt it (enlightenment) as much as you want, fear it, be confused but pursue it until you find it or until you dont want this path anymore.

 

Also notice that you have expectation as how Gods voice sounds like, and you are frustrated that it isnt clear enough.

Think again, Who should tell whom what things are like, the ego or God?

Also check this video its helpful if you take your time to watch it.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/all-understanding-is-metaphoric

Blessings

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Seiden
(Christianity or Enlightenment, are just different path, the only thing that changes is how much you suffer while alive. You are free to decide)