Using Ayauasca to prepare for first 5-Meo experience?

[Sempiternity]

I have a long history with psychedelics. Having done Ayauasca many times. Each time has been a smooth experience, full of love, surrender, oneness and bliss. But, when it comes to 5-Meo, I find myself terrified to do the first trip. I fear my death. I regularly have debilitating panic attacks. I fear my first time, I will get a bad panic attack and then have no way to let go, to surrender. Just 30 minutes of pure hell. Then I doubt I'd have the courage to try it again. No enlightenment, no liberation. So I find myself at an impasse, not able to find the courage to 'pull the trigger'. 

So I had an idea. Since the Ayauasca was such a beautiful experience, if I took Ayauasca just before doing the 5-Meo, putting myself in the right space (pure bliss, love and peace) I'd be much more capable of fully letting go with the 5-Meo. 

So my question is, how long after doing Ayauasca should I wait to do 5-Meo? Could I do it the next day? 

@Leo Gura

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jed Vassallo

[herghly]

Yes you can do it the next day with no problems. I've done that

[AlwaysBeNice]

Doing it for the sake of feeling better in the future, and then trying to avoid fear, all sounds crappy to me, the whole point is to face fear and know that the witness remains untouched. 

And I know how frightening the experiences can be, for me, just time and practice over the years following just has been the way to integrate this, there really is something about the time of living your sober life after, and letting it come naturally again, because it will. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by AlwaysBeNice

[Sempiternity]

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

Doing it for the sake of feeling better in the future, and then trying to avoid fear, all sounds crappy to me, the whole point is to face fear and know that the witness remains untouched. 

And I know how frightening the experiences can be, for me, just time and practice over the years following just has been the way to integrate this, there really is something about the time of living your sober life after, and letting it come naturally again, because it will. 

Not sure you fully understand what I was conveying. It's not about feeling better or avoiding fear. It's about finding a way to be able to relax enough to be able to surrender during the 5-Meo. With my history of frequent panic attacks (if you haven't had them, you have no idea how bad they get/are), I have concern it just not possible for me. But also with my history of doing so well with the Ayauasca, it seems like a good way to lead into the 5-Meo, putting me in a peaceful space to be able to surrender. Just trying to find what works for me. Wouldn't suggest this path for anyone else.

Not really the point of the post. More concerned with potential drug interactions with taking Ayauasca within a day of 5-Meo. 

[Javfly33]

I don´t think drug interaction might be a problem, but be sure to have a trip sitter if its the first time you are doing 5-Meo

[outlandish]

I don't think it would be a bad idea to use Ayahuasca as a "warm up" to 5-MeO-DMT. (I think some brews actually have some 5-MeO-DMT containing plants in there too btw, but probably not ever as the predominant push)

There's no reason you need to jump in the deep end with 5-MeO-DMT though. You could work your way up in dosage to get a feel for it so that you're never at the point of risking a panic attack. I would highly recommend you approach it this way. Being well experienced with psychedelics, you should have no problems with 5-MeO. It's different from all of the other psychedelics, but it's not completely terra incognita, there are aspects of the 5-MeO-DMT experience wrapped up in the other classics. It's just that 5-MeO-DMT focuses on that one aspect of the psychedelic experience.

Try a very small dose at first, work your way up as you become comfortable with it.

[Forestluv]

I've also had anxiety / panic issues at the point of surrender. Aya surrender was more difficult than 5-meo surrender. Also, if I mentally prepare for a trip by creating an epic surrender battle it's more likely that's what will happen.

[Sempiternity]

4 hours ago, outlandish said:

 

There's no reason you need to jump in the deep end with 5-MeO-DMT though. You could work your way up in dosage to get a feel for it so that you're never at the point of risking a panic attack. I would highly recommend you approach it this way. Being well experienced with psychedelics, you should have no problems with 5-MeO. It's different from all of the other psychedelics, but it's not completely terra incognita, there are aspects of the 5-MeO-DMT experience wrapped up in the other classics. It's just that 5-MeO-DMT focuses on that one aspect of the psychedelic experience.

Try a very small dose at first, work your way up as you become comfortable with it.

 

Thanks! I'm just going off what Leo and others have said about first trips. He said to do a small amount first, to see your tolerance level and how you react. He said it was more likely to have a panic attack with the lower doses, as your Ego doesn't fully let go, so the experience of it fighting your Ego is what can cause the panic attack. Leo said he's never had a panic attack in his life, but did his first 5-Meo experience. So I'm going off of these personal accounts, and trying to be prepared. I want it to go well. I'm hoping it's as smooth as all my Ayauasca trips, which were perfect.

[Sempiternity]

9 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I don´t think drug interaction might be a problem, but be sure to have a trip sitter if its the first time you are doing 5-Meo

Of course. I have an experienced sitter. Read Martin Ball's book, that covers in great detail how to do solo trips. Got a cabin in the woods for a week. One day of Ayauasca. 3 days of 5-Meo. Bumping up the dosage each day (per Leo's advice). One day of quite integration. See how it goes. 

[outlandish]

1 hour ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Of course. I have an experienced sitter. Read Martin Ball's book, that covers in great detail how to do solo trips. Got a cabin in the woods for a week. One day of Ayauasca. 3 days of 5-Meo. Bumping up the dosage each day (per Leo's advice). One day of quite integration. See how it goes. 

Amazing, sounds like you're setting things up really well! I'd love to be able to do this kind of thing at some point in my life.

I'm not sure if you have a meditation practice already, but you might add that on to your regime leading up to this if possible. I've found meditation to be enormously valuable in helping to prepare the mind space for 5-MeO-DMT. 

[Leo Gura]

@Jed Vassallo Ayahausca should be more uncomfortable than 5-MeO-DMT.

You're overthinking it. Stop listening to all the stories you've heard about 5-MeO and just go based on your direct experience. If you haven't tried it you have no idea what it will do and nothing to fear.

5-MeO is quite beautiful, peaceful, benevolent, and straight-forward as far as psychedelics go. At least for me. For me it has the least potential for weird, twisted trips. It's just a pure increase in consciousness. No funny business.

If you can handle Ayahausca you can handle 5-MeO.

[Sempiternity]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Jed Vassallo Ayahausca should be more uncomfortable than 5-MeO-DMT.

You're overthinking it. Stop listening to all the stories you've heard about 5-MeO and just go based on your direct experience. If you haven't tried it you have no idea what it will do and nothing to fear.

5-MeO is quite beautiful, peaceful, benevolent, and straight-forward as far as psychedelics go. At least for me. For me it has the least potential for weird, twisted trips. It's just a pure increase in consciousness. No funny business.

If you can handle Ayahausca you can handle 5-MeO.

@Leo Gura Thank you. That's what I needed to hear.

[herghly]

@Leo Gura Why have you not tried Ayahauasca?

[Leo Gura]

40 minutes ago, herghly said:

@Leo Gura Why have you not tried Ayahauasca?

Why, when I could do other psychedelics with less hassle?

[herghly]

@Leo Gura Understandable. I still think Ayahuasca is better for dealing with shadow work (cleaning up) than other psychedelics. No other  substances have helped me to purge emotions from my body like Ayahauasca

[Leo Gura]

@herghly I will try it some day.

[Vinnie]

@Jed Vassallo Whats your advice for Ayahuasca? I'm going to Peru next month for my first trial. 

[Samra]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Jed Vassallo

If you can handle Ayahausca you can handle 5-MeO.

What I needed to hear. 

[AlwaysBeNice]

Well I had some pretty mind fucky experiences with 5-meo, (one better than the other, but one was similar to a deep mushroom trip I had before), and I was really pushing it with my use of 5 trips in a row..)).

--

But if you are already having panic attacks, I don't see why you would want to increase the intensity of your life already, you're already not managing well sober, and panic attacks are obviously related to the resistance of the mind of uncharted territory of no-self.

And if you've already had a significant opening on psychedelics before it's already very accessible sober..

[JustinS]

After a full nondual blown out with 5meo and then going for aya is pretty gnarly. Pretty much any psychedelic, after 5meo, will thoroughly result in nonduality, and with Aya, lasting longer and deeper than let's say mushrooms, it'll take you under deep! 

Interestingly, no visuals or shapes with my previous aya experiences, just pure white light and collapsing of all duality just like with the 5meo...