Should I develop my Orange or should I move to green?

[Amadeusz]

So basically I feel like I'm somewhere between Orange and Green stage in Spiral Dynamics. 

I feel like I still need to be more strategic, results oriented, hard nosed, because I still have a lot to do in developing my business. So I need to develop my Orange. Also I need to develop my blue order and discipline. 

But maybe that's the trap of Orange thinking? This success spiral? Maybe moving more to green will free me? I feel like my love is developing, but it's still very blocked. How to know which step is right? What do you think?

[Forestluv]

41 minutes ago, Amadeusz said:

So basically I feel like I'm somewhere between Orange and Green stage in Spiral Dynamics. 

I feel like I still need to be more strategic, results oriented, hard nosed, because I still have a lot to do in developing my business. So I need to develop my Orange. Also I need to develop my blue order and discipline. 

But maybe that's the trap of Orange thinking? This success spiral? Maybe moving more to green will free me? I feel like my love is developing, but it's still very blocked. How to know which step is right? What do you think?

IME, the energetic shift from Orange to Green did not arise from self interest to progress up the spiral. That would be a personal achievement goal that is Orange-centered.

After 20+ years of being Orange-centered, I hit an existential crisis. I took logic and rational thinking to it's Orange end. It became so painful that I could no longer continue. I was hyper logical. over-analyzed everything and got into debates a lot. My career, my relationships, my view on life. It was no longer fulfilling. Then, an energetic desire for something deeper emerged. To understand the relative experience of others. To form deep human connections. To experience post-rational being. I had to give up A LOT of attachments to beliefs - yet the struggle was well worth it. Green is much more fulfilling than Orange. 

Once go Green, ya never go back. . . 

[7thLetter]

@Amadeusz Honestly develop and go as deep as possible into Orange. In my opinion Orange is probably the most important stage in one's development. And if you feel you need to dive deeper into blue as well, then do so. Taking your time developing each stage is the best thing you can do to eventually become an effective Yellow.

Of course there will be traps along the way so be aware of those. Although the process of noticing each one and overcoming them can be a great learning experience.

[Joseph Maynor]

You might go through Green quickly and hit Yellow.  I went through Turquoise pretty quickly and hit Coral.  It all depends on where your maturity sits.  You may burn through Green within 4 or 5 months.  Not saying you will though, that depends on where your maturity sits.  You gotta be set up to receive Yellow to enter Yellow fast.  Otherwise you’ll catch just the very beginning of Yellow.  

Edited November 13, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Amadeusz]

Hit coral man are you sure? ;d I think like I'm kinda orange-green-yellow guy. I have let's say 20% yellow in me (but maybe it's my ego and Im stuck in orange cuz I've never been communal my ego's strong). Isn't this like you unlock stages but it's not like you are orange. For example if you say orange it means that your highest stage is orange, right? You still have to work and develop lower stages usually. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Amadeusz

[Joseph Maynor]

16 minutes ago, Amadeusz said:

Hit coral man are you sure? ;d I think like I'm kinda orange-green-yellow guy. I have let's say 20% yellow in me (but maybe it's my ego and Im stuck in orange cuz I've never been communal my ego's strong). Isn't this like you unlock stages but it's not like you are orange. For example if you say orange it means that your highest stage is orange, right? You still have to work and develop lower stages usually. 

i don't buy into the whole percentages thing.  For me, each stage was pretty much a solid change from one to the next.  For each stage it's more like there's a beginning, middle, and end of that stage.  The reason why percentages don't work is because each stage is a paradigm shift.  You don't really sit between two paradigms you're either in one or another -- or moving between one paradigm and another.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[GenuinePerspectiveXC]

It's a lot of fun to go communal.  Just make sure you can sustain yourself and continue your orange growth. Otherwise, all of your 'compassion' is going to be about self-interest, and bitching at other people (but not you) to save the whales.

Edited November 13, 2018 by GenuinePerspectiveXC

[aurum]

@Amadeusz

I think you’re fine, don’t psyche yourself out over these stages. It’s just a model.

@Joseph Maynor

My experience is that it’s not always that simple. Usually people get a glimpse of a higher paradigm and then have to spend time going back and forth from their old way of thinking to the new.

[Joseph Maynor]

7 hours ago, aurum said:

@Amadeusz

I think you’re fine, don’t psyche yourself out over these stages. It’s just a model.

@Joseph Maynor

My experience is that it’s not always that simple. Usually people get a glimpse of a higher paradigm and then have to spend time going back and forth from their old way of thinking to the new.

For sure.  It's not as simple as I state it.  But at the same time the percentages thing can be taken too far too.  All these rules that we learn have to be tempered by our own self-observation.  And I agree, it’s a simplification to say that you move from stage to stage.  But no more of a simplification to say that one is composed of a percentage of stages.  Both of those are models, and they have their strengths and weaknesses.  I explain it the way to do partly for ease of communication.  Otherwise it's harder to reach people because you're bringing in a layer of complexity that they can figure out on their own as they walk the path.  So some of this has to do with my style of introducing information as a communicator.  I like to present a clear picture at first and then make it more complex as the path is walked.  Other communicators like to make the path complex at first and then nobody even gets on board.  So, a leader has to guide people on the path.  My style is to keep things easy until they need to get hard when it comes to dealing with models.  And that approach has its strengths and weaknesses.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Forestluv]

54 minutes ago, Winter said:

Is debating and beliefs really part of orange? A true orange (like I've been labelled) only cares about the result/success and is ready to accept anything to reach it. A true orange can stop over-analyzing when it sees that it hurts the end result that he is trying to achieve. A true orange grounds all of his life on one goal instead of truth or nothingness and is even ready to seek truth if it helps him to reach that goal. True rationalism includes being rationale about how you spend your time and by consequent, not over rationalizing stuff that is not worth it (in regard to the goal).

What I see is that you failed at being orange, not that you overcame it. Giving up doesn't mean overcoming.

> It was no longer fulfilling.

Something being fulfilling or not is just a feeling. You faced difficulty and you responded by giving up, crawling back and now you are rationalizing all that shit into a change of stage. You are deceiving yourself into thinking you gave up your goal for a good cause because it makes you feel better. 

Debate is based on rational thought and reason. This is indicative of tier 1. Tier 2 includes additional modes of thinking including relativism and post-rational thinking. Tier 2 is not attached to beliefs or ideas. Tier 2 is about an exploration of ideas, not a debate of ideas. 

There are various expression of Orange. My Orange expressions were personal achievement, science, logic and knowledge. Other aspects of Orange were not expressed, including materialism.

I somewhat agree with your idea about pursuing truth and personal goals. I've always been a seeker of truth, yet during my Orange stage I was also a seeker of knowledge. This formed an odd hybrid in which I sought truth via science. I also got into a lot of logical debates about what is true.

Overcoming adversity for personal gain is indeed a trait of Orange - which I was very good at for over 20 years of my adult life. So in that respect, I was "successful". Yet, from the perspective of evolving my consciousness, it was unsuccessful.

The Orange-level trap I see here is the idea that surrender is failure. That idea prevents one from evolving to a trans-personal level. An ego must surrender for one to transcend the ego. 

I am using the term "fulfilling" in a different context. There came a point in which I recognized how shallow Orange was. I was fulfilled in Orange, yet levels deeper than Orange appeared that were not filled. There was a deep desire to fulfill these deeper levels and nothing in Orange could do it. 

There is an energetic shift from tier 1 to tier 2. Tier 1 is based on personal need-based seeking energy. Tier 2 is based on exploring and discovering the magnificence of life. They are very different energetic orientations.

Overall, Tier 1 is like drinking gutter water. Tier 2 is like drinking spring water.

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, Winter said:

That is exactly why I'll stay orange all my life. The only thing that could be failure is to surrender. There's no way one can fail if he never stops trying. 

One that is trying to reach a goal instead of truth will soon realize that the only reliable way to secure the reaching of the goal is with truth. The only way to consistently give a quality 90+h/week work schedule is by getting rid of all the inner demons, which requires awareness and truth. By that way someone that seeks a goal can evolve as fast as someone else.

Why would someone do that? Because he decided too. There's no rationale behind it, just like there's no rationale behind seeking truth. Someone seeking truth for the sake of trying to reduce its sufferings. But I don't see how reducing sufferings is better than anything else. It seems like the seeking of truth doesn't define what you do but what you can do. I don't see any distinction between choosing to do something instead of nothing.

Leo decided to do something: educate other people. This is as materialist as any other goal. It assumes the existence of the real world as well as other people. He chose to do something instead of nothing. If Leo wanted to do all his truth seeking for himself only he wouldn't bother filming himself talking about all this stuff for us to watch.

That is a beautifully juicy Orange mindset. Go for it and have fun.