Im Confused

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

There are no words to describe it. Any word I use is a distinction. Any word I use is out of context. This was so far prior to any concepts

Oh I totally get that. That’s normal for me on the daily now. But for that day I’m referring too i have no recollection if there was fear, or sensory field cutoff. You do remeber the experience though right? 

 

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Prior to anything you can imagine. Any thought, word, concept or image aint it. ALL that stuff got blown away in the beginning. 

That is what I’m referring too as well. But you seem to recall which leads me to believe you were maybe somewhere “within” still concious. You see what I mean. There was fear, and you can recall the experience. Right?

[Forestluv]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You need to distinguish awakening itself from changes to one's sensory field. Psychedelics tend to alter the sensory field a lot as well as produce awakening. It is possible to awaken without any change to the sensory field at all. And this is usually the case in non-psychedelic awakening. Or it's possible to have radical changes to the sensory field, such as the entire sensory field disappearing or morphing into fractals and all sorts of other stuff like a DMT alien hyperspace landscape.

If you are in pure void with no sensory field at all, then that would be pure void. Obviously there's nothing there. No perceptions, no forms at all. Like deep sleep. Obviously there are no colors and shapes in deep sleep.

BUT! That is not strictly necessary for awakening. You can awaken without your sensory field changing at all. In fact, you can realize that "the void" is ALWAYS the case! Even when the sensory field is fully here, it is still void. The sensory field is not other than void.

Thank you Leo. It was with 32mg of 5-meo plugged. I would say the trip to the null void and the return involved sensory field alterations. Yet, the pure void was absolute nothing. I was blind, deaf etc. Yet, it wasn't a "black out" like I have had with high psychedelic doses.

I haven't yet had the direct experience of "the void" in everyday life. I look around my room now and it is not the same as the null void. Perhaps I I ventured to absolute formless, yet haven't integrated that with form yet. I.e. formless is form.

What you wrote on distinguishing between awakening and sensory field changes resonates. I will put work into that. 

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Mikael89 said:

 

Dude. 

You didn't experience anything, your being ended, you didn't perceive anything, everything was gone, absolute nothing.

And yet there was eyes on you, and they said you were awake????

My dudes surf buds. Yeah I wouldn’t refer to it as anything because it was not a thing I projected. If that makes sense. 

[Jack River]

It wasn’t induced my a chemical though. 

[Roman25]

Do humans have the ability to see objectively or nah?

[Forestluv]

@Mikael89 @Jack River

I've been under anesthesia twice. It was not the same. Not even close.

The only anxiety / fear was breaking through the self - which came very early. Once the process started, the self was completely broken though in the first minute. The self re-appeared at about minute 12.

It's beyond any idea or concept. Those were blown away after the first few minutes. Upon returning, we can't add in concepts because it is prior to concepts.

It would be like trying to explain your "experience" as a fetus in your mother's womb. Anything you say or do to try to communicate it comes AFTER birth and it aint it. 

[Jack River]

Anyhow I feel the more emptying the daily conciousness becomes the sooner that will happen again. This is difficult to embrace. I don’t know why other than having no time reference. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[DrewNows]

@Serotoninluvyou spoke of stages to the null void or something? So the self was literally obliterated in a minute? Can you recall more detail beyond that? 

[Jack River]

26 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I've been under anesthesia twice. It was not the same. Not even close.

The only anxiety / fear was breaking through the self - which came very early. Once the process started, the self was completely broken though in the first minute. The self re-appeared at about minute 12.

Oh. Yeah I have never been under anesthesia before. 

It seems like it was a violent process for you. You seemed to go through the self anxiety/fear resistance/followed by breakthrough all in a few minutes. 

For me it seems that I daily breakthrough or do not move within self/time continuity. And by awarness I stop feeding the self and it’s resistance. Then I seem to at times go into this deep “state”. For me all the self fear is transcended on the daily. As in due to the content of self. Awareness seems to prevent future projection of experience as that result. All that fear stuff isn’t in the same “experience” as I am speaking of. 

For me that time in the water, supposedly I was out there for 30 min or so. But there was no fear/self movement at all that I recall. This is close to what faceless encounters on the daily. I don’t see how he embraces it so welcomely. 

Have you “experienced” anything similar to what I am saying here?

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

7 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Your messages are so contradicting and weird that maybe you are a traveler between worlds and I'm talking with you who are jumping between the worlds as we speak.

You describe parts of this world, and parts of the other world.

-------------------------

Or you and everyone else in this forum are just insane. 

I seriously don't know.

Haha ? maybe. 

I like you dude?

[Forestluv]

22 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Serotoninluvyou spoke of stages to the null void or something? So the self was literally obliterated in a minute? Can you recall more detail beyond that? 

It was about a minute after the process started. It took about 5 minutes for the 5-meo to kick in. It was my highest dose and the onset came on strong. It's the only time I've felt anxiety / fear with 5-meo. There was a point of recognition that this could be complete insanity and absolute hell and I remembered all posts I read online about people going through hell with 5-meo and going through mental suffering afterwards. I thought I had pushed my luck and now it was my turn. I began wishing I hadn't taken the 5-meo and I wanted to go back so much - yet I couldn't change or stop it. There was a brief moment of full-on panic and then the break-through. 

After breakthrough, distinctions started to dissolve. Things stopped making sense. Words stopped making sense. Images stopped making sense. I lost all my senses - including vision, hearing and feeling. It was like putting cream into black coffee. You start off with a clear distinction. Then imagine slowly stirring and the cream gradually mixing with the coffee until the two are completely mixed and there is no difference.

The null void was pure null. Then, there was a first distinction. Awareness appeared at that moment to be aware of the distinction. There was no awareness prior to the first distinction. There was nothing to be aware of. The pure void was prior to awareness. Awareness appeared with the first distinction.

In hindsight, it seems I am very fortunate to have any recollection of this. I've blacked out on high doses of psychedelics before and I don't know why I didn't this time.

[DrewNows]

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

After breakthrough, distinctions started to dissolve. Things stopped making sense. Words stopped making sense. Images stopped making sense. I lost all my senses - including vision, hearing and feeling. It was like putting cream into black coffee. You start off with a clear distinction. Then imagine slowly stirring and the cream gradually mixing with the coffee until the two are completely mixed and there is no difference.

Fascinating! Thanks ? 

Ive had just one psychedelic experience, mushrooms, prior to any spiritual work. It is also the most terrifying experience I’ve had...went so far down the rabbit hole w/out any sort of breakthrough of the self (very ? opening none the less)

 

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Fascinating! Thanks ? 

Ive had just one psychedelic experience, mushrooms, prior to any spiritual work. It is also the most terrifying experience I’ve had...went so far down the rabbit hole w/out any sort of breakthrough of the self (very ? opening none the less)

 

I've been there. I had a 4 hour mushroom trip in the sub-ego death zone. Very uncomfortable. I so much wanted to just breakthrough or start coming down. Yet it was like the teacher said "Nope, I'm going to keep you here just prior to ego death to show you some stuff".

The process gets easier. You may want to try something like ald-52 or San Pedro. They are much more gentle than mushrooms. Or, a lower dose of shrooms.

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv Yes, you have yet to realize that all form is none other than void. That would be the ultimate integration.

Take smaller doses and don't lay down or close your eyes during trips and you should see it.

Try contemplating: What is form? while you do this.

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, DrewNows said:

awakening becomes the experience after the fact when looked back on...rather an idea in your head about what "you experienced" 

 

Yeah I’m thinking I simply didn’t record the “experience”. I continue to do this now on the daily psychologically. I feel like the recording is usually so instant. But it’s kind of scary to not record. Lol you know what I mean dude

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[DrewNows]

@Serotoninluvif I find some psychedelics to be in my reach I will be happy to jump on board  

However just the one has led to some radical realizations 

@Jack Riverunderstand ??

you spoke of distinctions ending and this was in no self while you were out on the water? Was their sounds? You make it sound like a trance. 

The first memory I have of no self I was literally gliding around in total bliss ?

complete oneness being awareness 

Edited November 13, 2018 by DrewNows

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Serotoninluv Yes, you have yet to realize that all form is none other than void.

Take smaller doses and don't lay down or close your eyes during trips and you should see it.

Try contemplating: What is form? while you do this.

Thanks. I realize this is something I need to walk through with effort, work and direct experience. 

I only started using psychedelics about two years ago and the awakenings have come fast and furious - awakenings of various facets of Truth. The progress blew away over two decades of traditional meditation and I've felt overwhelmed trying to integrate all the lessons. Yet recently, the new awakenings have slowed to the point desire for more has returned.

I'll try the low dose / contemplation route. I just got some ald-52, which has a much milder effect on me. Hopefully, the energy regarding this lesson has become strong enough that it will soon reveal itself.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, DrewNows said:

@Serotoninluvif I find some psychedelics to be in my reach I will be happy to jump on board  

However just the one has led to some radical realizations 

I learned more during my first mushroom trip than my previous 20+ years of Buddhism and meditation. Yet, I big part of that revolved around ego death.

[DrewNows]

@Serotoninluvwow yes I believe it...you say you had ego death in your first trip? 

No self came after the psychedelic experience for me

Maybe this is why I didn’t see more to be better...

heres a funny analogy...

Taking psychedelics is like going over to the “dark side”: “total dark” yet “very powerful”. Facing yourself is the Jedi way: “using the force” “destroying evil”. In the end “oneness” “nothingness” 

[Forestluv]

@DrewNows Yea, I actually screwed up the dosage the first time and took waaay to much. I blasted right through ego death - no time for anxiety or fear.

For sure. I've often thought that conceptualizing about awakening is fun and games. Facing it is *much* more difficult. Like the old saying "Shit just got real"