I am enlightened; sincere seekers ask me anything in relation to the path

[DrewNows]

3 hours ago, SOUL said:

Contemplate your own experience, couldn't it be said that the deepest and clearest insights come from those moments when the clarity of the unattached awareness is perceiving reality without the veil of self identity obscuring it?

How can we have genuine and clear insight with the conditioned self identity filtering our perception? So it seems that attachment doesn't lead to insight but it is liberation, unattached perception, that leads to insight.

Great point! 

No effort, only unattached perception, brings about direct insights into the veil of self

 

[Jack River]

Seems insight arises with attention. Attention that is not influenced by choice as the chooser, which is not an attached/identified/ state rooted in resistance with “its” likes and dislikes. Also seems this insight is itself understanding which is its own action. 

It’s not a verbal/intellectual understanding which is followed by the chooser that then applies that verbal/intellectual understanding and converts it to action. 

Anyone else notice this?

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Attachment/inattention does seem to lead to attention and therefore insight. Seems that without that state of innatention/attachment, we wouldn’t be able to learn about what wasn't attention or what was the barrier to insight/action. 

The awareness of inattention seems to bring about a more coherent attention/awareness-insight/action. 

 So even attachment/inattention has its place. Could we say this was for the most part correct, or not? 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[DrewNows]

6 minutes ago, Jack River said:

So even attachment/inattention has its place. Could we say this was for the most part correct, or not? 

Yah so it seems! Necessary until unnecessary. It’s sort of a tricky transition 

[Jack River]

9 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Yah so it seems! Necessary until unnecessary. It’s sort of a tricky transition 

Plus, It’s pretty silly to say be aware or be attentive. How would we know what that was until we recognized inattention. 

We can’t be attentive without understanding what is not attention. We can’t come to attention without understanding inattention. They seem to go together huh? 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[SOUL]

4 hours ago, Jack River said:

Attachment/inattention does seem to lead to attention and therefore insight. Seems that without that state of innatention/attachment, we wouldn’t be able to learn about what wasn't attention or what was the barrier to insight/action. 

The awareness of inattention seems to bring about a more coherent attention/awareness-insight/action. 

 So even attachment/inattention has its place. Could we say this was for the most part correct, or not? 

Well, from a dualist perspective there is the opposition positions of attached-unattached and attention-inattention. This would also apply to awakened-asleep, reality-illusion, truth-false and all of the other spiritual ideology rooted in the dualist mindset. Although, to transcend the dualist mindset there is another perspective to gain insight with and allow me a moment to illustrate it.

Let's take light....a single particle of light, a photon and it's traveling through space on it's way to earth. While it is still in space there is no atmosphere for it to interact with so it is invisible, it is unseen even though it exists. This is like our awareness as it manifests in the observerless observation expression and it is our awareness in it's purest form but it isn't what would be called enlightened which I will get to next.

When the photon reaches our planet it first encounters the atmosphere so now it has something to interact with so becomes visible as light. It still isn't blocked until it encounters something more dense but this is the first time it can be compared to enlightenment. This is like awareness as it is in our consciousness without the self identity to interfere with, obscure or block it.

Then this photon encounters the solid mass of earth and that is when the light is blocked and a shadow is created. The earth is like our self identity that blocks the light creates the shadow and is when we search out the enlightened state of consciousness. The dualist mind sees this only as the opposition position to the shadow but being a separated mind perspective it will always contend with the shadow.

Some may recognize this fruitless mindset and seek out the illuminated state of the photon in atmosphere as awareness in consciousness. They remove self identity, the shadow disappears and they glow in this blissful state of enlightenment... but wait. There is still another state that can be realized, the observerless observation of the photon without the atmosphere.

That is the unseen, the unity of infinite, absolute wholeness, the holistic expression of awareness in it's purest form. So much so that even to call it enlightenment is to fall short of capturing the nature of it's essence.

Yes, my illustration also falls short of communicating the nature of it's essence but it is the best I can do with the language I have and a conceptual mind.

[Emanyalpsid]

14 hours ago, SOUL said:

@Mu_

@Emanyalpsid

Contemplate your own experience, couldn't it be said that the deepest and clearest insights come from those moments when the clarity of the unattached awareness is perceiving reality without the veil of self identity obscuring it?

How can we have genuine and clear insight with the conditioned self identity filtering our perception? So it seems that attachment doesn't lead to insight but it is liberation, unattached perception, that leads to insight.

 

They go hand in hand, we only separate them with our words. Without words, there is no distinction. So, yes, definitely.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[Jack River]

2 hours ago, Emanyalpsid said:

They go hand in hand, we only separate them with our words. Without words, there is no distinction. So, yes, definitely.

Right. 

@SOULinteresting but not totally visualizing the illustration. 

We can say that the dualistic behavior or movement of self is its emotional/thought/feeling reaction that moves in a process/cycle of cause-effect-cause-effect right?

This is what we could refer to as a state of inattention right? A movement of self that feeds its own movement in a constant state of inattention. 

So the duality in itself seems to be in the movement of self that reacts to its own resistance/identification-attachment as if that self were separated from the state of resistance/identification-attachment. Which seems to necessitate this duality. 

So that all seems to be the duality in itself. 

Then can we say that the “state” of attention, which implies no duality/divided attention/awareness is not an opposition or opposite born of the dualistic self, but an energy that doesn’t get wasted feeding it’s own process? 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

It seems attention to innatention/attachment starts with the understanding/observation of innatention/attachment

Once that understanding/observation is seen as a whole as one unit in movement of self, as the cycle of innatention/resistance/attachment/identification, then seems to arise this “state” of attention. A seeing without the veil of self. This seems to be a very violent and fast process. Almost seems to be simultaneous. As I have suggested before, understanding/observation is action. One undivided action. 

Where dualistic verbal/intellectual understanding as the self, seems to be an understanding that is a two step process. The understanding comes first via (projection of self), then an action is carried out by that understanding. Self/thought seems to at that point be influencing the understanding and then action. Or observing through the conditioned veil of self then acting which seems to get caught up in that same action/reaction cycle of resistance/attachment/innatention(emotion/thought reaction loop). 

Your experiences seem to unfold as such dudes? 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Mu_]

@SOUL

Ya I may have not seen that you touched upon multiple means of enlightenment, if I recall you were stressing the importance of the whole point of liberation being the actual freeing from suffering.

I think your awakening experience you shared is great and the insight you had was powerful, that the path itself can be a distraction.  I even made a video on that.  However and I go back and forth on this, the path/path/religion may serve up to a point to where that recognition is useful.  Because honestly if you like cutting away all the bullshit and unnecessities of waking up, even the idea that there is existential yearning that cuts away peace and contentment can be a barrier or prevention.  One can still get caught up in the seeking of finding peace and contentment.  Realization is not that.

[Mu_]

@SOUL

 

"Contemplate your own experience, couldn't it be said that the deepest and clearest insights come from those moments when the clarity of the unattached awareness is perceiving reality without the veil of self identity obscuring it?

How can we have genuine and clear insight with the conditioned self identity filtering our perception? So it seems that attachment doesn't lead to insight but it is liberation, unattached perception, that leads to insight."

Definitely moments where that happened.  But also ones in which there was confusion happening simultaneously from what I believe your referring to as the self identity.  Waking up isn't bound to any particular set of circumstances, emotional, though, feeling of "I" or its cessation, bliss happening, calm happening, love happening, oneness feeling.  These all can be metaphorical pointers to the remembrance and understanding of what you are.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Mu_

[Jack River]

12 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

I think your awakening experience you shared is great and the insight you had was powerful, that the path itself can be a distraction

It may soon become clear with insight that the path and the self that walks it is the same process. 

12 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

However and I go back and forth on this, the path/path/religion may serve up to a point to where that recognition is useful.  Because honestly if you like cutting away all the bullshit and unnecessities of waking up, even the idea that there is existential yearning that cuts away peace and contentment can be a barrier or prevention.  One can still get caught up in the seeking of finding peace and contentment.  Realization is not that.

We soon see too that self has always walked some path or another. The self and the path are mutually dependent parts of one unit in movement of time from the “past/present which projects a future”. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Mu_]

9 minutes ago, Jack River said:

It may soon become clear with insight that the path and the self that walks it is the same process. 

We soon see too that self has always walked some path or another. The self and the path are mutually dependent parts of one unit in movement of time from the “past/present which projects a future”. 

Yes, well said.  And the totality of what you are sharing is you as well.  There was never a moment or event in which it was not you.

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Mu_ said:

Yes, well said.  And the totality of what you are sharing is you as well.  There was never a moment or event in which it was not you.

I Am’ness 

[Mu_]

6 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I Am’ness 

Neti Neti, even more then what your pointing to.

[Mu_]

9 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I Am’ness 

Am'ness is still a quality

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Mu_ said:

Neti Neti, even more then what your pointing to.

Fosho. The negation goes on. 

[Jack River]

@Mu_ fosho. 

the word implies a quality condition or state, but I wouldn’t refer to it as a state/condition. This “place” where knowing is not.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Observation of this whole process of self/path(fixed projected structure) is pretty gnarly. SEEING it as the unit of movement/time that it is. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[FoxFoxFox]

Do you have active kundalini, and if so, what insight has it specifically unlocked so far? What is your understanding of bliss?