I am enlightened; sincere seekers ask me anything in relation to the path

[Jack River]

10 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

If you come close to Nirvana, you will realize that less mental activity is a more pure experience. But the mind is not at rest before you realize non-self.

 

I completely agree. Have you seen that in the seeing/understanding there can be an awareness that doesn’t move within the time/self field? 

As in this awareness seems to dissolve the “future” thought/emotion response from arising in the first place. The continuous dying from moment to moment seems to bring about that pure consciousness “state” or lack of experience/knowledge through the eyes of self. It’s more like an unconscious/unawareness. This has really become more and more continuous as an experiencing for “me”. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Jack River

[Emanyalpsid]

34 minutes ago, i am I AM said:

@Jack River What's the last thing you were doing before being? Assuming time has the order you believe it has, or time exists?

Also, why answer a question?

Actually, the realization came when I was on a shroom trip. Don't underestimate psychedelics though. If you are not mentally ready you can get very lost and it is very hard to come back from a wrong corner. Therefor I only used it in moderate quantities to have clear thoughts. 

Why pose a question? 

Edit; oh sorry didnt see this question was not directed at me.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[i am I AM]

No problem. I enjoyed reading it.

[Emanyalpsid]

18 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I completely agree. Have you seen that in the seeing/understanding there can be an awareness that doesn’t move within the time/self field? 

As in this awareness seems to dissolve the “future” thought/emotion response from arising in the first place. The continuous dying from moment to moment seems to bring about that pure consciousness “state” or lack of experience/knowledge through the eyes of self. It’s more like an unconscious/unawareness. This has really become more and more continuous as an experiencing for “me”. 

Edit; although upon a second reading of your question I dont really know if you mean that. What do you mean exactly?

Edited November 12, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[Jack River]

10 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Yep, in the meditation session a few weeks before iI realised the nature of it all, I experienced this. I was in a very deep meditative state almost asleep, not aware of my heartbeat. So I wasn't really perceiving anything but I wasnt asleep either, so I was also not perceiving nothing. 

Yep. As in consciousness with nothing in it. You will see that it will become more and more continual as awareness puts a stop to conditioned movement of thought/self. 

10 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Have not experienced it again, also did not try again as there is really no reason to anymore.

It’s actually more like not an experience as I see it. And the kicker is the more you try to “re-experience” “it” the less of a chance it will arise again. It seems the psychological pursuit of the experience seeker activates the response of thought itself. To me it seems when this psychological time actually stops psychological recording does too. Then the less thought is projected in time or “the next moment”. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Jack River

[Emanyalpsid]

Ah oke that is what you meant. It is  vaguelydescribed here, deleted the link;

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/gunaratana/wheel351.html#ch4.2

But readers dont get hung up on the texts on that website, thinking you have to experience what is written there. It is just an attempt to describe a path. The texts and practices there can be very unclear for a logical western thinking mind, but suit yourself. That is why I wrote my own notes and texts.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[SOUL]

Quote

The Four Noble Truths are the keystone of the practice.

The truth of suffering (dukkha)

The truth of the cause of suffering (samudaya)

The truth of the end of suffering (nirhodha)

The truth of the path that frees us from suffering (magga)

I find it interesting you don't mention suffering once in your original post yet the Buddha himself outlined these as the foundation of enlightenment. What is the purpose and value of understanding if there is no ceasing and freedom from suffering?

At best understanding is part of the path that frees from suffering, at worst is causes suffering but even if it merely distracts from liberation then it is of no use.

[Emanyalpsid]

Nice question! I dont mention this anywhere, on purpose, as the translation into the word 'truth' is quite onfortunate. 

The word truth, in the four noble truths, actually refers more to an understanding or realization. I would rephrase them into;

- Realization there is suffering.  meaning; all existence is dukkha. Dukkha is often translated into 'suffering,' but a better translation to me would be 'unsatisfactoriness.'

- Realization of the cause of unsatisfactoriness. Meaning; the cause of unsatisfactoriness is craving.

- Realization there is an end to unsatisfactoriness. Meaning; The cessation of dukkha comes with the cessation of craving. 

- Realization the path is the right way. Meaning; the noble eightfold path

 

There are two reasons I do not use them.

1. The word 'truth' has a different place in the western world then people from the east might think. 'Truth' is a central concept in the thinking process of a lot of people. So if the word truth is used, they are going to hold onto it and look for the truth. While there actually is none (besides the one in which you might believe). So it hinders them from realization. Now people from the east, who helped in translations, probably didnt know this, and it is, what I assume, one of the main reasons why buddhism is not really understood in the West, or approached with a false assumption.

2. The path would refer to the noble eightfold path. However this is not a mandatory path, by refering to it you would focus on it.

Translations make room for a lot of interpretation errors.

I do mention suffering in my first post. Read carefully.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[SOUL]

You only once mention that you don't 'suffer' from some things you list, this hardly speaks to what I am referring by the casual use of it. In liberation also called enlightenment the freeing from suffering is what it is, it does not exists apart from it.

Of course the way you talk about the meaning of words it seems they have more value then liberation does otherwise you would have mentioned the freedom from suffering more often and not casually just once. That being said let's move on past that and on to the point of this.

Truth, yes, it's meaning can be confusing and quite often people focus on finding truth instead of liberation. Even if you interpret it as realization in that context what is 'made real' is liberation and our freedom from suffering. It's not just being made aware of it or awakened to it, it is liberation made real in our exprience.

Now if you also want to interpret suffering differently it influences the core of this because freedom from it is central to liberation, it is all that it really is and without it liberation is not what it is. Even seen as unsatisfactoriness, which can also be said as unsatisfactory, unfulfilled or emptiness and it is what gives rise to the craving and to desire of existential life.

Whether we view this cessation as desire-less emptiness or crave-less fulfillment isn't the point but ceasing the cycle of that duality of empty and full is the liberation. The path is not the path unless it leads to liberation regardless of how we express that path in idea, belief, word and deed.

So my question isn't seeking an answer and the answer shouldn't be inviting a question because that is an expression of duality but all discussion about this is pointing to liberation and if it is not it is just distraction from the realization of it.

[Mafortu]

Why does humanity's suffering outweighs its happiness and well-being? Wouldn't a 50-50% make more sense in this "perfect reality" we live in?

 

[Emanyalpsid]

@SOUL

Therefore I mention "And with understanding them, I mean a transcedental understanding as a direct insight into the nature of reality."

If one perceives the nature of it, you dont suffer from it.

Edit: I can add 'realization' though. Thanks for your message.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[Emanyalpsid]

46 minutes ago, Mafortu said:

Why does humanity's suffering outweighs its happiness and well-being? Wouldn't a 50-50% make more sense in this "perfect reality" we live in?

 

By asking 'why' you look for a reaon. Reasoning is what creates the ego. So by asking yourself these questions you are only trying to feed your ego. I can't answer it as any answer I would give you would be my believe. How come you wanna know?

Edited November 13, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[SOUL]

Liberation is not an understanding or insight into suffering or the 'nature of reality' even if it's transcendental or direct. It is freedom from suffering so even without any understanding or insight one can be liberated. The lure of understanding becomes a 'truth' seeking distraction.

There are plenty of examples of people on this forum and within the 'spiritual community' having transcendental understanding and direct insight of the 'nature of reality' without them being free from suffering. Liberation isn't dependent on understanding or insight, it's freedom.

Too much focusing on understanding the path distracts from the realization there isn't the need to walk it.

 

[Mu_]

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

Liberation is not an understanding or insight into suffering or the 'nature of reality' even if it's transcendental or direct. It is freedom from suffering so even without any understanding or insight one can be liberated. The lure of understanding becomes a 'truth' seeking distraction.

There are plenty of examples of people on this forum and within the 'spiritual community' having transcendental understanding and direct insight of the 'nature of reality' without them being free from suffering. Liberation isn't dependent on understanding or insight, it's freedom.

Too much focusing on understanding the path distracts from the realization there isn't the need to walk it.

 

Good discussion, but thought I'd just chim in with on thing.  Many awakened teachers from different traditions and even within the Buddhist tradition talk about awakening in different ways.

For example you seem to have a strong opinion that liberation is the end of suffering, which I've heard as the end of craving, but not the same as actual discomfort, sadness, pain, struggle, frustration, pretty much the span of the human state.

Suzuki Roshi said its like normal everyday life but about 1 inch off the ground.  He aludes to there being more energy and warmth of heart.

I believe some Hindu religions point to state of awakening that are like BOOM constant bliss, ectasy and and direct connection with the consciousness of life itself in which you understand all information, can fly, make gold appear.

Neo-Advita I believe is seeing the radical truth that Self is never not the case and no need for the cultivation of the human being.  One can do what ever they want and its all the play of Self.  Your an asshole, you can stay an asshole and being free because thats what is the case.  Bliss may come and go, love may come and go, you may hate, you may suffer, but your hands have been freed from believing you are the doer.

The list goes on and on....

This is why I've never said I'm enlightened expect in a recent post in which someone asked if there were any others on the forum, but I tried to put clear indicators of what that meant, but dont think I did a good job.

There's definately something to this spiritual/seeking/enlightening/awakening thing but where you draw a line and define what makes someone or knowing in ones self what enlightened is, is slightly difficult, because there are no objective standards. 

I guess for me its knowing without a shred of doubt what you are and the craving to seek has seized.  Its almost kinda funny because one could describe it as almost where you started.  someone would ask you who you are and you would know without a shred of doubt that your one with Self, and they would ask  well how do you know, and the best answer you could honestly give is, well its obvious what are you talking about, just like you would when you had no idea that you were anything other then just a guy who was born with no connection to Self, it would just be obviously so to you.

The coming and going of expansive states of consciousness come and go, bliss and love would come and go, struggles and challenges with normal every day life will continue to happen, inifinity and explosion into area's that are mysterious come and go, new insights into human/scientific functioning and capacity continue to form, the body will still decay, Alzheimers may still happen, a heart attack could be around the corner, but a steadiness, equanimity, non-clinging and understanding remains.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Mu_

[Emanyalpsid]

@SOUL

Yes, but liberation comes from insight, whether it is an intuitive understanding or a conceptual understanding doesn't matter, it stretches from feeling to thought. In relation to Buddhism of course.

I get your notion that the focus should not be too much on the conceptual understanding. In fact, focussing on a conceptual understanding is the problem in the first place. However this is a forum and a lot of people seem to be struggling with the conceptual understanding of enlightenment. If they are already searching in their mind, they have to find a way out of this first. They will not be able to get the intuitive understanding without first finding the way out of their mind. In other words, you can not say to a thinker to simply not think. This will not work for them. Therefore I wrote the website, as a guide out of your mind.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[Hellspeed]

Oh boy, another porcupine thread.

Tell me you can Heal Yourself at least, or let's go home and meditate more.

[Emanyalpsid]

10 hours ago, Mu_ said:

 

Indeed, it is about knowing oneself and accepting this without clinging to it or looking for it's essence. You just are.

Thanks for your post, your explanation is clear to me and maybe other people can relate to what you say.

[Emanyalpsid]

8 hours ago, Hellspeed said:

Oh boy, another porcupine thread.

Tell me you can Heal Yourself at least, or let's go home and meditate more.

What do you mean? What is your point?

 

[Hellspeed]

6 hours ago, Emanyalpsid said:

What do you mean? What is your point?

 

A true Enlightened Master can heal him/her and others. Egoic Enlightened and the realization of truth, not, this stage hasn't reached Turquoise yet. 

[SOUL]

@Mu_

If you actually did read the discussion that you call good you would have noticed we did discuss the different words that could be used so why make that a point of contention. Whether one prefers to use craving or suffering or desire it doesn't matter really since they all stem from an existential yearning that appears to be what disturbs our peace and contentment.

Much of the rest you talk about to me is the ceremony and adornment of the path but for my own experience I am a minimalist with regard to the path. Too much complication and complexity in the path appears to distract a very many from the genuine purpose of it, the cessation of this existential yearning that manifests as the craving, suffering and desire in us.

I have found from decades of being in spiritual circles of seekers that the monkey mind wants to mentally masturbate over the complicated complexity of the ceremony and adornment along the path as a distraction so that the cessation of yearning gets lost or ignored in favor of the path to it. They become attached to the complex ritual of the path.

This attachment quite often is cultivated by seeking 'understanding' expressed as the direct insight of the complicated path instead of that direct experience of being present in peace and equanimity. Once I did have direct experience of being present in peace a sense of bliss and fulfillment quenched the existential yearning and I realized the attachment to the complicated ritualized path is what was keeping me from it.

@Emanyalpsid

Contemplate your own experience, couldn't it be said that the deepest and clearest insights come from those moments when the clarity of the unattached awareness is perceiving reality without the veil of self identity obscuring it?

How can we have genuine and clear insight with the conditioned self identity filtering our perception? So it seems that attachment doesn't lead to insight but it is liberation, unattached perception, that leads to insight.