I let go of my toxic best friend to improve my life

[Elysian]

8 hours ago, Aquarius said:

@Elysian Your answers are always spot on. Many people tell me that I'm depressed all the time, but I don't feel like it's true? I don't even feel sad?? I mean I know I said that I am "sad", but it was in the sense that the situation frustrated me. I'm not really sure what depression even is, unless I see it on other people but I don't really feel it myself.

This is the symptom list from the National Institute of Mental Health:

Persistent sad, anxious, or “empty” mood

Feelings of hopelessness, or pessimism

Irritability

Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, or helplessness

Loss of interest or pleasure in hobbies and activities

Decreased energy or fatigue

Moving or talking more slowly

Feeling restless or having trouble sitting still

Difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions

Difficulty sleeping, early-morning awakening, or oversleeping

Appetite and/or weight changes

Thoughts of death or suicide, or suicide attempts

Aches or pains, headaches, cramps, or digestive problems without a clear physical cause and/or that do not ease even with treatment

 

It doesn't have to be every symptom, and it could fluctuate in the amount of symptoms and intensity over time. People often misinterpret depression as an extreme sadness, but depression is often a sort of umbrella emotion that contains many other emotions underneath like sadness for instance. And if it's been going on for some time then it's probably because there are some major issues that haven't been addressed like emotional trauma or even the current traumatic situation that is actively going on (think abusive spouse, bullying, etc.).

I've been in similar situations/feelings before, and so that might be why what is said resonates with you.

4 hours ago, Mu_ said:

I dont know, you tell me You didn't mention in your post that he was a ex, which is fine, but somehow the dynamic you were sharing sounded very relationship/exish.  Female + guy friends/exs can get very confusing, complicated for reason unconscious to both parties or from desires that are not met that influence eachothers emotions in a very strong way.

Agreed I think him being your ex makes a big difference. There's a plethora of reasons he could be acting this way because of it. I think the most likely is he was only there for the sex and now that you're not providing it he's treating you like what he feels like you are, a nuisance.

[Shin]

6 hours ago, Elysian said:

Agreed I think him being your ex makes a big difference. There's a plethora of reasons he could be acting this way because of it. I think the most likely is he was only there for the sex and now that you're not providing it he's treating you like what he feels like you are, a nuisance.

What a nice friend !

[Aquarius]

@bejapuskas Yeah it's usually me telling him to go outside with me. I talked to him today on the phone because he invited me to his first ever radio show (which is online). I casually asked if he wants to see my new haircut, and he was laughing awkwardly and changed the topic. Maybe he just has emotions about the show and needs to prepare, but I don't know. It's weird, really. It's like he has extremely strong feelings for me, yet avoids me at all costs and treats me like crap sometimes. Maybe it's really my fault, for whatever reason.  

@Mu_ I'd like to learn more about these dynamics. Not necessarily to fix our friendship, but I'm curious.  Where do you learn about these?

[Aquarius]

@Elysian Oh well I have like 7 symptoms on that list. It's crippling depression!!!  

Jokes aside, I never really looked into depression or what it really means because I'm generally very active, motivated and full of energy. But it seems like I have to take care of it asap before it ruins me.  

Oh nice, good to know that the most important person to me thinks of me as a nuisance!  

@Shin How could I be so naive? lol  Problem is that when I give him more space he always comes back and is really nice to me so it's confusing. I don't think he has clear goals in life..

 

[Shin]

4 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

@Elysian Oh well I have like 7 symptoms on that list. It's crippling depression!!!  

Jokes aside, I never really looked into depression or what it really means because I'm generally very active, motivated and full of energy. But it seems like I have to take care of it asap before it ruins me.  

Oh nice, good to know that the most important person to me thinks of me as a nuisance!  

@Shin How could I be so naive? lol  Problem is that when I give him more space he always comes back and is really nice to me so it's confusing. I don't think he has clear goals in life..

 

He has a lot of red flags,  wouldn't let him in your life again, especially since you probably will always feel something for him since he was your first.

[Aquarius]

@Shin Sigh.. alright.  

[Elysian]

2 hours ago, Aquarius said:

@Elysian Oh well I have like 7 symptoms on that list. It's crippling depression!!!  

Jokes aside, I never really looked into depression or what it really means because I'm generally very active, motivated and full of energy. But it seems like I have to take care of it asap before it ruins me.  

I was always hanging out with friends, partying, and going to things like raves when I was depressed, so going out doesn't mean much if that's what you mean. I would use activities like that to numb myself unconsciously, to avoid the pain.

Oh nice, good to know that the most important person to me thinks of me as a nuisance!  

Better to know than not, means you can stop wasting your time. Think about how he treats you and ask yourself if that's the way someone who's appreciative of you being in their life would act.

If you've been depressed for years it can be hard to discern if you hadn't already. You start to forget that those symptoms above aren't the way you were born, and that a healthy you was a night/day image of what you are now. Depression can become your normal without even realizing it.

[Shin]

16 minutes ago, Elysian said:

If you've been depressed for years it can be hard to discern if you hadn't already. You start to forget that those symptoms above aren't the way you were born, and that a healthy you was a night/day image of what you are now. Depression can become your normal without even realizing it.

I second that, I was depressed for almost a decade, and I only knew when I looked at the symptoms and some meditation work.

[Mu_]

13 hours ago, Aquarius said:

@bejapuskas Yeah it's usually me telling him to go outside with me. I talked to him today on the phone because he invited me to his first ever radio show (which is online). I casually asked if he wants to see my new haircut, and he was laughing awkwardly and changed the topic. Maybe he just has emotions about the show and needs to prepare, but I don't know. It's weird, really. It's like he has extremely strong feelings for me, yet avoids me at all costs and treats me like crap sometimes. Maybe it's really my fault, for whatever reason.  

@Mu_ I'd like to learn more about these dynamics. Not necessarily to fix our friendship, but I'm curious.  Where do you learn about these?

Ummm, this isn't really my strong suit.  Id just start looking for books and male female dynamics in regards to relationships and even ex-relationship dynamics.  Sorry wish I could help more.  Its honestly a rather muddy, hard to understand terrain, since both parties are hiding their true feelings, or one is and the other is not and as a result, one person appears to the other as making no sense.  One shows no interest, then when you leave them alone, they come back wanting more then they said they wanted relationship wise, because one is shy, doesn't want to get hurt, wants to hurt the other, but then realizes they don't so they stop and act nice, the list goes on and on......

[Key Elements]

@Aquarius Some ppl just don't want to talk unless it's really necessary. They will just say bluntly, "get back to work," or something like that. It may sound rude, but that's how they are. I would say, just detach from them. If they don't want to talk, don't talk to them.

[Max_V]

@Shin You need to watch out with talking the way you're talking. I know you mean well, I've known you for quite a while, but you need to watch out with telling people what to do. The only way you know about the situation is through the couple things she said over text and so you create the situation in your mind filtered through your own biases. Without having a full grasp of what is going on you are just going with whatever stereotypical scenario you associate with what's happening.

When you say: "Do this.", "Don't contact this person again.", some people can't take your messages into context with what you know and just plainly act with whatever you tell them what to do.

Be careful with that, it could end up hurting people in the process.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just found this important to express.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Max_V

[Shin]

11 minutes ago, Max_V said:

@Shin You need to watch out with talking the way you're talking. I know you mean well, I've known you for quite a while, but you need to watch out with telling people what to do. The only way you know about the situation is through the couple things she said over text and so you create the situation in your mind filtered through your own biases. Without having a full grasp of what is going on you are just going with whatever stereotypical scenario you associate with what's happening.

When you say: "Do this.", "Don't contact this person again.", some people can't take your messages into context with what you know and just plainly act with whatever you tell them what to do.

Be careful with that, it could end up hurting people in the process.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just found this important to express.

 

 

Thank you

[Aquarius]

On 11/12/2018 at 6:37 PM, Elysian said:

If you've been depressed for years it can be hard to discern if you hadn't already. You start to forget that those symptoms above aren't the way you were born, and that a healthy you was a night/day image of what you are now. Depression can become your normal without even realizing it.

Yeah you're right. Sometimes I have some "normal" moments, but it's very rare. I usually think it's an awakening, when in fact it's just simple lack of anxiety, or normal state of being. I didn't have time to read your book recommendation, but I skipped through the pages and I got the essence. I tried the method where you ask your body "yes" or "no", it said I have no problems and trapped emotions. Then I asked about the Heart Wall and it said yes. It's not a hidden Heart Wall though, so I think my subconscious is ready to let go of some things? I asked if it's ready then it would say no then yes and no and yes again. And so forth. What does that mean? 

On 11/13/2018 at 5:22 AM, Mu_ said:

Ummm, this isn't really my strong suit.  Id just start looking for books and male female dynamics in regards to relationships and even ex-relationship dynamics.  Sorry wish I could help more.  Its honestly a rather muddy, hard to understand terrain, since both parties are hiding their true feelings, or one is and the other is not and as a result, one person appears to the other as making no sense.  One shows no interest, then when you leave them alone, they come back wanting more then they said they wanted relationship wise, because one is shy, doesn't want to get hurt, wants to hurt the other, but then realizes they don't so they stop and act nice, the list goes on and on......

I think it goes like this: I show too much love, even if it's just friendly admiration and respect towards him. I'm a very passionate being so I might go over the top. He has some wounds, perceives it as me being dependent on him. I sense his anger, I have some wounds regarding males being angry so I try to overcompensate, thus being even more pushy and suffocating, but this time also fearful and maybe desperate for forgiveness and an answer. He gets distant, doesn't want to talk. Says he only talks when it's necessary and that he has nothing to say. It goes like this for a few days, he's getting more nervous, I get more anxious, the pressure between us grows. I keep pursuing him and asking what's wrong. He says nothing, he's hard to contact via social media and all, responds in 2 word sentences, usually in an irritated tone. He doesn't want to hurt me because he cares for me, but his fear of commitment (even for a loyal friendship, not necessarily relationship) eats him inside - notice the inner conflict between his love for me and his desire for freedom. Then that is a period when he tends to forget the real me, and sees me as desperate and kinda retarded. The tension in me grows, I get angry, I break off all ties and stop talking to him. But after a few hours I talk to him again to calm him down that everything is ok and I need space (again, some deep unconscious fear of losing people if they commit suicide because of me - source of fear yet unknown, but maybe the emotional abuse of a masochistic relative in childhood). I make sure he will be safe, even though I know he's probably ok. I tell him to give me space, to leave me alone for a few months but I tell him that he can write if he has important problems that I can help with. Then I'm calm but sad, feel some grief, especially in my lungs and I breathe very badly for a few days, very bad chest pain. Then everything in my life goes well, I'm happy. Then after some time I miss him and I wonder if he misses me too. I get depressed. Then he writes to me because he was feeling the same grief. We return to each other, have fun, feel good, share experiences of things that happened when we both were away, feel strong connection and he shows tons of love and admiration for me. Then cycle repeats. It has repeated like 10 times now, and I've only known him for about 3 years.

That's some things based on my observation. It was really liberating to see things from perspective and write it down like this.  

4 hours ago, Key Elements said:

@Aquarius Some ppl just don't want to talk unless it's really necessary. They will just say bluntly, "get back to work," or something like that. It may sound rude, but that's how they are. I would say, just detach from them. If they don't want to talk, don't talk to them.

It's true. Thanks.

3 hours ago, Max_V said:

@Shin You need to watch out with talking the way you're talking. I know you mean well, I've known you for quite a while, but you need to watch out with telling people what to do. The only way you know about the situation is through the couple things she said over text and so you create the situation in your mind filtered through your own biases. Without having a full grasp of what is going on you are just going with whatever stereotypical scenario you associate with what's happening.

When you say: "Do this.", "Don't contact this person again.", some people can't take your messages into context with what you know and just plainly act with whatever you tell them what to do.

Be careful with that, it could end up hurting people in the process.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just found this important to express.

 

 

Yeah you're right. I do think Shin is amazingly helpful, but things are far more complicated than that. I just didn't share more info about my friendship because I didn't want to argue and complicate. But notice the dynamic I illustrated for Mu. It's written in a very objective manner. You cannot say one friend is bad or another is good. It just sort of happens out of fears, wounds, bad habits, complex dynamics, pressures. Strangely enough, even the most toxic people can have very good caring hearts. That's why it's hard to let go of him. I think the ultimate solution is to detach from the situation, even if it keeps happening in the background. I think of it as admiring a person from distance. The simple feeling of it is blissful.

Especially cause Shin and others didn't consider one thing: that the love between me and my friend isn't necessarily egoic stage orange trading system type of love, but a holistic love that takes on many forms. One based on being. None of us is attached to "owning" or "keeping" the other person. It's almost like an very unhealthy manifestation of turquoise love, while the two persons involved are stuck in orange-green mentality and lifestyle because of the circumstances (society expectations) and ego-desires. Or maybe there's no circumstance yet to express it? But it's there. There can be any label on our relation to each other, yet we feel and express the same things. We were both trying to describe to each other the feelings we hold for the other many times, but it's really hard to explain. It's like the other person is the most fragile and important thing for one person, yet no one has the intention to keep the other person caged.

We've been trying to find all kinds of solutions to express these strange emotions in the safest environment possible, so we tried dating (it seemed like being loyal would provide safety), then dating seemed very orange and possessive so we moved to friendship, but friendship is a label that doesn't let the people involved explore the possibilities of love-expression fully, so we detached completely from each other, but what do we do with other people and society? What do we tell them? People demand a label for everything.

I'm wondering it anyone will ever "get" what I'm meaning above. This seems like the only community that would understand, yet I don't expect much, especially because my way of describing things isn't the clearest thing in the universe.  sorryy. But I'm curious if anyone will truly get it. Also if there's an explanation of how two seemingly unconscious humans developed high consciousness emotions next to each other. That's the weirdest.

(p.s.: this doesn't mean the relationship dynamic is healthy nor that I'm defending it in any way. + high conscious emotions are present in higher percentages in the friendship when other needs are met - like Maslow's hierarchy - so I didn't contradict myself anywhere on the thread)

[Elysian]

1 hour ago, Aquarius said:

Yeah you're right. Sometimes I have some "normal" moments, but it's very rare. I usually think it's an awakening, when in fact it's just simple lack of anxiety, or normal state of being. I didn't have time to read your book recommendation, but I skipped through the pages and I got the essence. I tried the method where you ask your body "yes" or "no", it said I have no problems and trapped emotions. Then I asked about the Heart Wall and it said yes. It's not a hidden Heart Wall though, so I think my subconscious is ready to let go of some things? I asked if it's ready then it would say no then yes and no and yes again. And so forth. What does that mean? 

I also just read the necessary parts, I think most of the book is to get you in the mindset that it does work for many people.

You most likely have a heart wall and that's why you were told so. If you start getting inconclusive answers it could mean a few things: You need to reframe the question/are asking the wrong question, you need to clear your mind some more (meditate), you need to recenter yourself in love and gratitude (the best you can), or you are projecting your prediction on the answer in anticipation of what it will be instead of simply allowing your body to tell you what it knows.

If you can't seem to get it figured out and want some help, we can set up a call and I can ask the questions/do the muscle testing with my body while you release the emotions and use the magnet to clear the residual energy yourself. Intuition says this will work over distance, as long as I have your permission at the start of the call to ask the questions needed. I wouldn't charge anything, I would be grateful for the practice.

 

I think it goes like this: I show too much love, even if it's just friendly admiration and respect towards him. I'm a very passionate being so I might go over the top. He has some wounds, perceives it as me being dependent on him. I sense his anger, I have some wounds regarding males being angry so I try to overcompensate, thus being even more pushy and suffocating, but this time also fearful and maybe desperate for forgiveness and an answer. He gets distant, doesn't want to talk. Says he only talks when it's necessary and that he has nothing to say. It goes like this for a few days, he's getting more nervous, I get more anxious, the pressure between us grows. I keep pursuing him and asking what's wrong. He says nothing, he's hard to contact via social media and all, responds in 2 word sentences, usually in an irritated tone. He doesn't want to hurt me because he cares for me, but his fear of commitment (even for a loyal friendship, not necessarily relationship) eats him inside - notice the inner conflict between his love for me and his desire for freedom. Then that is a period when he tends to forget the real me, and sees me as desperate and kinda retarded. The tension in me grows, I get angry, I break off all ties and stop talking to him. But after a few hours I talk to him again to calm him down that everything is ok and I need space (again, some deep unconscious fear of losing people if they commit suicide because of me - source of fear yet unknown, but maybe the emotional abuse of a masochistic relative in childhood). I make sure he will be safe, even though I know he's probably ok. I tell him to give me space, to leave me alone for a few months but I tell him that he can write if he has important problems that I can help with. Then I'm calm but sad, feel some grief, especially in my lungs and I breathe very badly for a few days, very bad chest pain. Then everything in my life goes well, I'm happy. Then after some time I miss him and I wonder if he misses me too. I get depressed. Then he writes to me because he was feeling the same grief. We return to each other, have fun, feel good, share experiences of things that happened when we both were away, feel strong connection and he shows tons of love and admiration for me. Then cycle repeats. It has repeated like 10 times now, and I've only known him for about 3 years.

That's some things based on my observation. It was really liberating to see things from perspective and write it down like this.  

It can really help to get everything down on paper to paint yourself  a better picture, it's good you've noticed the pattern.

Yeah you're right. I do think Shin is amazingly helpful, but things are far more complicated than that. I just didn't share more info about my friendship because I didn't want to argue and complicate. But notice the dynamic I illustrated for Mu. It's written in a very objective manner. You cannot say one friend is bad or another is good. It just sort of happens out of fears, wounds, bad habits, complex dynamics, pressures. Strangely enough, even the most toxic people can have very good caring hearts. That's why it's hard to let go of him. I think the ultimate solution is to detach from the situation, even if it keeps happening in the background. I think of it as admiring a person from distance. The simple feeling of it is blissful.

Especially cause Shin and others didn't consider one thing: that the love between me and my friend isn't necessarily egoic stage orange trading system type of love, but a holistic love that takes on many forms. One based on being. None of us is attached to "owning" or "keeping" the other person. It's almost like an very unhealthy manifestation of turquoise love, while the two persons involved are stuck in orange-green mentality and lifestyle because of the circumstances (society expectations) and ego-desires. Or maybe there's no circumstance yet to express it? But it's there. There can be any label on our relation to each other, yet we feel and express the same things. We were both trying to describe to each other the feelings we hold for the other many times, but it's really hard to explain. It's like the other person is the most fragile and important thing for one person, yet no one has the intention to keep the other person caged.

We've been trying to find all kinds of solutions to express these strange emotions in the safest environment possible, so we tried dating (it seemed like being loyal would provide safety), then dating seemed very orange and possessive so we moved to friendship, but friendship is a label that doesn't let the people involved explore the possibilities of love-expression fully, so we detached completely from each other, but what do we do with other people and society? What do we tell them? People demand a label for everything.

I'm wondering it anyone will ever "get" what I'm meaning above. This seems like the only community that would understand, yet I don't expect much, especially because my way of describing things isn't the clearest thing in the universe.  sorryy. But I'm curious if anyone will truly get it. Also if there's an explanation of how two seemingly unconscious humans developed high consciousness emotions next to each other. That's the weirdest.

(p.s.: this doesn't mean the relationship dynamic is healthy nor that I'm defending it in any way. + high conscious emotions are present in higher percentages in the friendship when other needs are met - like Maslow's hierarchy - so I didn't contradict myself anywhere on the thread)

The relationship isn't healthy, but I get what you mean. You guys want intimacy, which is something exceedingly rare to find in this world. I think you will find in mostly Green circles that people start becoming a lot more open to what a relationship between two people can be. And the need to put exact labels on relationships becomes less important.

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Elysian
Grammar

[Aquarius]

@Elysian Oh wow I think I'm blushing, I can't do it, I'm very shy around people that I don't know that well. But I'll consider your offer and I'll let you know if I need help. It means a lot! You remind me of an internet friend I have, he lives on another continent but he did distance reiki healing a few times on me. So seriously, I will think about it. Thanks!  

Me and my friend are both green, but he is at a lower stage of green with a lot of blue conditioning. Also with all of these wounds it's really unhealthy yes. Do you think that me respecting him from distance is a good solution? I mean having the distance and only keeping his lovely memory as a thing that fuels my creativity, motivation in life, etc. (?)

[Elysian]

1 hour ago, Aquarius said:

@Elysian Oh wow I think I'm blushing, I can't do it, I'm very shy around people that I don't know that well. But I'll consider your offer and I'll let you know if I need help. It means a lot! You remind me of an internet friend I have, he lives on another continent but he did distance reiki healing a few times on me. So seriously, I will think about it. Thanks!

It needn't be video, audio is fine. And I don't need to ask you the questions, I ask the questions myself and can just tell you the information you need to know. From there you could clear the energy with the magnet, or if you have emotions come up that you need to feel you can mute your side while you breathe through the emotions (if it would make you feel better to do it that way). Really all I would need from you is for you to feel what needs to be felt, clear what needs to be cleared with the magnet, and telling me when you understand what I've found/when your done feeling/ and when you've finished clearing with the magnet. That way I could do most of the talking. 

I understand if even that might be hard to do, because you'll have to be ok with me hearing whatever it is that traumatized you (even thoughI'll never know who you are). Just let me know if you decide you want to do it.

Me and my friend are both green, but he is at a lower stage of green with a lot of blue conditioning. Also with all of these wounds it's really unhealthy yes. Do you think that me respecting him from distance is a good solution? I mean having the distance and only keeping his lovely memory as a thing that fuels my creativity, motivation in life, etc. (?)

You can care about someone while also knowing that for your own sake (and for his also) they can't be in your life. Setting boundaries doesn't mean you can't love someone, it just means you've decided to love yourself too.

 

[denydritz]

Agree, reading the post also made me feel that the two of you are more than just "friends." There is definitely a male/female dynamic there and perhaps some issues related to past experiences, in terms of romantic relationships. Of course, if there were such an issue, bringing it to the surface would require some work and perhaps include some risk ...

It's very brave of you to let go of the friendship that you have, even if there seems to be something that needs disclosure. I don't think your experience is an issue of "like people attracts like people," because you want to grow while he is showing resistance to growing. The safe option is to cut him out from your life and find a new friend or group of friends that share the same vision; or you could take the risk and try to find out what is truly wrong with him, and help him resolve it ...

... though helping people who don't ask for help verbally can cause problems. Plus, you're still growing too, and may not be "strong enough" to help him, yet. Maybe a 'reset' is necessary, where you don't see each other for long enough that you change and become better persons.

[Aquarius]

@Elysian Yeah that's the hard part. Telling someone about traumas that even I myself hide from myself.

Yes I meant setting some serious boundaries. I didn't mean not seeing him again in life.

@denydritz Yeah you're seeing things pretty well. He did ask for help a few times but very subtly. I told him I'm not strong enough right now every time he did. Deep inside he knows well that I'm on the self actualizing path, he isn't dumb. But I doubt that he knows about self help. He might intuit that I have some knowledge, but he doesn't see me as an actualized being. Only when I create some distance does he see that I'm actualizing. And only then does he ask for help. What I'm trying to say is that leading by example is more effective on him.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Aquarius

[Enizeo]

23 hours ago, Max_V said:

The only way you know about the situation is through the couple things she said over text and so you create the situation in your mind filtered through your own biases. Without having a full grasp of what is going on you are just going with whatever stereotypical scenario you associate with what's happening.

Very true, and quite a big issue in this forum. When interpreting someone's situation on here, we need to keep a few things in mind:

1. Even if the person is being honest to us, he/she could still be highly deluded.
2. We get very selective insights into the person's life. Even though they might be quite deep, we still lack the big picture.
3. The cultural situation a person is in might differ a lot from what we are used to and therefore tend to project.
4. The mind has a tendency to jump to conclusions, fill in gaps. So we outselves are quite deluded in thinking that we know a person from a few posts.

That being said, it is still valuable to give nuanced perspectives.

[Aquarius]

1 hour ago, Enizeo said:

Very true, and quite a big issue in this forum. When interpreting someone's situation on here, we need to keep a few things in mind:

1. Even if the person is being honest to us, he/she could still be highly deluded.
2. We get very selective insights into the person's life. Even though they might be quite deep, we still lack the big picture.
3. The cultural situation a person is in might differ a lot from what we are used to and therefore tend to project.
4. The mind has a tendency to jump to conclusions, fill in gaps. So we outselves are quite deluded in thinking that we know a person from a few posts.

That being said, it is still valuable to give nuanced perspectives.

THIS.

The cultural situation part is very very true in my situation.