The True Self

[Dodo]

Just now, Henri said:

@Dodoster Spirituality spoken, there`s no difference between the UK and Bulgaria. Both western and christian nations.

I don't consider Christianity as spirituality, I consider it a religion. I have always been an atheist and one can say I still am.

[SkyPanther]

12 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

Nice comment, but what if (in my case) I see that all they are talking about is the same thing. All of those teachings I can see they are talking about the exact same thing  from their different angles and it seems pretty solid to me what they are pointing at. Btw, I am from Bulgaria, then I lived few years of my life in England, then I moved back in Bulgaria, and now I am going back to England. So I am not that Western. Bulgarians have different culture, so don't put me in common denominator - not that anyone should. (This last point is more towards Socrates than you)

They may be talking about the same thing, or they could be talking about the same thing from their personal interpretation. 

But from what I understand Eckhart Tolle did not work toward enlightenment, he just "got it".   But now he is teaching others essentially how he now feels without having a pre requisite understanding that how he feels is after the fact; it did not get him to the fact. 

That is why if you take the religion out of Vedanta/Hinduism/Buddhism, all of them are tools to show you how to dislodge the conditioning of humanity and nature, so you can get that realization. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by SkyPanther

[Dodo]

Just now, Socrates said:

Having head stuck up the ass is not local phenomena. It even happen in the East buddy. But let's not confuse arrogance with innocence. You're arrogant and ignorant. If you had half ounce of self respect you wouldn't be reading Eckhart tolle in first place.

That's cool, that's your opinion and your reality, don't try to shove it on me. You are a rose trying to tell another rose that it isnt doing something right. No such thing

[SkyPanther]

Just now, Socrates said:

@SkyPanther Wilber doesnt teach tradition. Its comprehensive map. His map divide up traditions and he doesnt mix any of it. He just enable us to differentiate and put all tradution into perspective

Oh, I understand, but there are people that take Wilber and turn his writing into a spiritual life. Just like people do with Alan Watts, Osho, etc...

Alan Watts was a "spiritual entertainer", he said that many times... but people still took him as a guru.

The Buddha was not a god, just a teacher, but people still turned him into a divine being.  

[Dodo]

Just now, Socrates said:

@Dodoster Seriously mate..are.you ill?? Because youre ego is getting nasty now because someone argue with you. This not pesonal. 

My friend, you're doing the same or do you not see the hypocrisy here. I am not the one who claims to be enlightened. I do still have the sense that it is all personal. And it looks like you do too by the way you acted all through this discussion. 

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Totally distorting everything. You accost my claims, play mind games, quote false prophets, sit on high horse saying you bastard teachings are truth, arge and disrespect. Then twist it all saying I have to prove I'm enlightened to you, some grunt whos on internet who can't even have a civil conversation because his sick weak ego get offended at truths he don't want to hear. Please. Enlightenment doesn't mean perfect. If you looking for perfect sadguru impressionist you lost touch with reality bud

Lol, why am I wasting my *time* with this. You are twisting my words, I have never asked you to prove you're enlightened, your ego picked it up. Do you see the problem with having an ego? Conflict (if I didn't have an ego, it would be long over, if you didnt have, it would be long over). I didn't even say that you have to prove it. All I said a million posts ago is I do not believe you are enlightened. You completely warped my words and maybe we should stop chit-chatting as it is not leading us anywhere. You are the one on the high horse and also you have painted a wrong picture of my in your mind and are attacking it. Good on you and your enlightenment "buddy".

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dodoster

[Dodo]

16 minutes ago, Socrates said:

You go try to get rid of.your ego. See you in nut house buddy. My ego fine, it can handle a bit of.conflict. I can transcend it because moment gone. You will probably carry this on for years in your head. That's ego. Enlightenment doesn't mean perfect, it doesn't mean no self. It means moment to moment living buddy 

You have to think about others too, in the large scale, is it going to help if everyone has huge ego and we eventually kill ourselves, even though we live moment to moment, or is it better for people to have 0 or close to 0 ego so that wars do not happen and we thrive? Like lets say you can have your big bad ego and still live in the moment and feel awesome whatever happens etc, but think about the big scale of things.

I know ultimately nothings is good or bad, but as humans there is good and bad from our perspective, and we want to do favourable things for our species. If the individual can be without ego and feel as happy in the moment as a person with ego, then it's just wrong for humanity's sake to keep the ego in the system. Cheers. That's my perspective of things.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dodoster

[jjer94]

3 hours ago, Socrates said:

And I say for a 22 year old you haven't even started the stretch. But you read a lot of books. So for that you get kudos. But no Enlightenment I'm afraid buddy friend  Come back in twenty years when th wishful thinking an hobbyist has dried up then we can have discussion about what enlightenment is. Its not what you read in books. Those are idiosyncratic definitions of individual experiences.

I never claimed I was enlightened like you did, old man 

If it's not what I read in the 20+ books about enlightenment, then I may as well just pack up and leave. The thing is, everything about enlightenment is idiosyncratic definitions of individual experiences. It's all hearsay. And if time and time again, I've read that enlightenment is about transcending the finite for the infinite and timeless (i.e. your true nature)... don't you think that's a good enough clue that that may be the case? Not to mention that these books have led to several awakenings of my own. I'd rather follow their definitions and pointers than someone who gives the vague definition of enlightenment as "moment to moment living and discernment." That's more vague than Eckhart Tolle's writing.

I'm done here, Socrates. Thanks for trying to push my buttons. I'm serious, thanks.

Cheers!

[jjer94]

5 minutes ago, Socrates said:

You trying to extract exact information from me because you need it for belief system to make ego bigger. Enlightenment is not an event. Not a belief, not a system. You have a big head and a small weak ego that need intellectual knowledge to look like big man on here. Why you on here mining information? Go get a life mate

Of course it's not a belief system (B.S.); it's completely beyond intellect. I try to avoid making grandoise claims, especially when it comes to enlightenment, because claims and arguments are in the realm of finite words, the realm of right and wrong, when there is no right or wrong. Maps are never the territory. But I'm sure you're already aware of that, Mr. Enlightened guy. 

Look, we can go back and forth all day. I could ask why an old chap like you is on this forum. I could make the argument that you're not really enlightened and you're just launching on "easy prey" because you have nothing better to do. But what's the point? Like any debate with words, they get nowhere. Just one ego defending itself against another, totally unaware of the fact that its arguments are just as untrue as the other's. 

I will say, your last few sentences there have a certain degree of personal validity, and I sincerely thank you for pointing it out. Fortunately, ego has been getting weaker and weaker by the day, but I do keep finding myself back on this playground of a forum. I'm not mining information; I'm not looking for new B.S. to learn. Just like you, I feel the urge to point out all of the falsities in the questions that people ask here. But of course, there's also the hidden agenda of wanting attention. I think I will take your advice about getting a life, and I hope you do the same, Socrates.

Cheers...

P.S. "No man is ever old enough to know better."

[SkyPanther]

20 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Did you travel East for your enlightenment ?

No, but I was never looking to get enlightened.

I was living a normal life... or as normal a life as a software engineer has. After my experience, which again, I was not actually looking to get, I did research of what "that" was, and saw all the eclecticism/New Age woo found in modern teachings of Eastern thought in the West.

So I found a Theravada Buddhist Monastery in San Diego (It's a Thai Forest Tradition called "Metta Forest Monastery") took the Refuge and Precepts, and then found a teacher and started reading the Pali Canon.

I am in my 30's; if I were younger, and was actually seeking enlightenment, I would be in India doing what @Henri suggested. Probably some where near Bodh Gaya, or a Forest in Thailand.

Edited April 7, 2016 by SkyPanther

[SkyPanther]

Just now, Socrates said:

Ok, so you not enlightened?

The teacher said I was a Sotapanna.  Reading the description, it fits both my experience and my realization. I never claimed to be an Arahant.

But to answer the question more directly, everyone is enlightened... most just miss it because they have too much conditioning from culture/nature.  Or "too much dust in their eyes".  

[SkyPanther]

Just now, Socrates said:

You seem to know some things.  This is good.  You think existential being behind ego games?  To collapse ego easiest way is to confront it?  What you think?

I think anytime there is any reaction, instead of response, and the reaction is that of a personal affront, that is an egoic delusion.  So finding the threads, and fetters that keep your ego bound, by being constantly affronted is the best way to break out of egoic/conceptual and personal view.

Or simply put, if you take anything personally, you need to figure out why and release it.  Because you have some egoic clinging to view. 

[SkyPanther]

24 minutes ago, Socrates said:

@SkyPanther I try to make people enlightened here, but nobody want to know.  christian culture mind always want to make believes about something, build castle in sky.  i tried

That is hard to do when ego is built up from birth in the West, and especially in the US, and where most have not stepped foot outside the country.

Some will get it eventually; some won't.  But the rounds of kalpas will continue with or without their(our) understanding.

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by SkyPanther

[SkyPanther]

6 minutes ago, Socrates said:

@SkyPanther 

Is this true for lineage? 

It is true for any view; including the Dhamma. Once you get across the river of desire, you discard the raft.