The True Self

[Dodo]

30 minutes ago, Socrates said:

@Dodoster We need strong ego against kids who buy into open mindedness to use as a tool against other debaters to poision them with their politically correct views. Its not your fault, it normal ego. I'm not expert on Enlightenment, I'm expert on what false. And most kids on here are false. Even you 

I am false and you are true? I do not follow

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dodoster

[Dodo]

17 minutes ago, Socrates said:

I know nothing. Enlightenment is knowing what's false. That's it. If I see false then I know it's not truth. All I do is point out flase. Never said anything about anything else. That's your projection and ignorance buddy friend

You said Emerald did not have an enlightenment experience through ayahuasca. That's what I mean by you act like you know it all. You somehow know that another did not have an enlightenment experience through a drug, because of your own experience with drugs?

[Dodo]

18 minutes ago, Socrates said:

@Dodoster What matters is are you living or are you in samsara stuck? Reading books, getting upset over thing people say because your weak ego is getting all ruffled? What you doing with life? Seeking? If youre seeking and getting upset then you false. Im not true. It not about personal. It about living moment to moment. Dying with the last moment reborn with the next. Thats your truth, you just dont want it

The only thing I'm point here is even if you are right on the level of thought, the very way you act, the way you defend, like you have figured it out is a way for your own ego to grow. By being right in this argument your goal (without you knowing) is for your ego to conserve this as the truth and grow, because "yes, I know what's false". My ego is in a fight with your ego it's just I think you've deceived yourself that you no longer have an ego? Which is scary imo.

PS: Thanks for the conversation anyway, I had a realization while writing it.

PS#2: Bottom line is if you are enlightened you should realize that some people in the matrix are still going to think you're in the matrix (can't just believe you right away and shouldn't really). If you're not enlightened but just deceiving yourself, this should've helped you a bit.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dodoster

[Dodo]

The thing is the things you're saying @Socrates anyone with spiritual understanding can say, but the way you say them, the energy that I get is that neediness to be right. I don't know, text doesn't translate emotion and intent that well. F it.

[Patrick]

@SocratesSo you are an expert on falsity or are you spiritually enlightened? If you are enlightened, just out of curiosity, can you describe what it feels like?

[cetus]

I always remind myself that just because I woke this morning, doesn't mean I'm no longer dreaming.

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Socrates said:

This is all your imagination. You ego cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality. You stuck in the past

Can say the same towards you and be right also.

[Dodo]

57 minutes ago, Socrates said:

@Dodoster By now i know when people 1st tier accosting me it becaue they fucked up. Philip tried it now you. He realised that his ego was in the way ditorting his vision. Enlightenment is about reality. You interpret it according to you past. What else can i say? This is forum, and most here are fucked up.what am i going to do? Sit back and let your projections define me? Your sick ego got a lot to learn buddy

You mean I should teach my ego, make my Ego white-ish (spiritual) like I am implying you have done?

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, Socrates said:

@Dodoster @Dodoster Look how sad you are. On internet testing spirits against things you read in books because someone saying thing you disagree with. In zen they beat student to pulp for their blasphemies. This is why westerner never beome enlightened, too busy making it about their pluralistic values aan personal ego. It not even an authentc ego, it falsr botrowed from social condition. 

You are ignorant. Trying to collect bunch of attributes of enlightenemnt person like Western mind only can because it too conditioned by Christian faith. 

You know nothing of reality. 

Question: How do you know I am sad? By my words? You are projecting. I am perfectly calm at this moment, following the teachings of Eckhart Tolle, by being in my body, silencing the mind, acknowledging my breath. I am letting life happen and I am observing it. Not trying to force anything. At this moment I am writing a comment to you, and I am observing that consciously and I am also observing how riled up and defensive you get and even resort to verbal "attacks" to the other party. 

All I'm saying is that I am not convinced you are enlightened. It doesn't matter and it shouldn't matter to you if my self that I am observing at this moment is doing this projection towards you, if you understand what I mean. Let it be, me thinking you're not enlightened is not hurting anyone but your apparently non-existent ego.

 

[Dodo]

3 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Now you playing mind games. Read the thread again in different state. You will see who you talking to buddy. I don't care if you think I'm enlightened. But I won't let you tell me your version of enlightenment is the truth, it's not. Eckahrt tolle? Hahaha. Please do me favour buddy. Enligthened people still have ego, still acting like normal person. Get out of your Western bubble and go tour Asia, you will not find one Eckhart tolle or sadguru there. But you will find normal people who are far more enlightened than your Western guru. To be enlightened is to be normal person. 

Are you creating peace or are you creating conflict?

PS: I never claimed to know what enlightenment is, as I am not enlightened. I was voicing my opinion on what I see. Using the forum.

[Emerald]

4 hours ago, Socrates said:

@Emerald Wilkins

I'm saying it to burst bubble. Nobody got enlightened by studying it and talking about past experience and future hopes. You can't step into the same river twice .  Thanks for asking my background, I lived with community in Burma since 1975. 

I don't see you posturing. I just see you missing thepoint. Your experience was not even enlightened experience. I had many of these on drugs, it not the same as moment to moment living.

I see. I do often talk about my experiences. They are my only frame of reference, and they are safe for the ego.  I think I'm a lot like a kid trying to avoid sleep by asking for a drink of water in that way. I sidetrack myself through intellectual bypassing. But I suspect that there are similarities and differences between what I experienced and living in the enlightened paradigm. More obviously, I wouldn't be experiencing a body-high and hallucinations in daily life. This was purely the effect of the drug. But I suspect that the letting go of neuroses and fears aspect would be part of it, which is what I really want at the end of the day. I want to really live and not just strive and sacrifice for the imaginary friend that I call Emerald.

[Dodo]

21 minutes ago, Socrates said:

And just because you calm doesn't mean you not projecting your self image onto me buddy. You know nothing, you read a few books and think you know it all. You get pissed because I tell someone their drug experience was not enlightened. That's a weak ego my friend. I'm hasting a bet if I had approached your ego with soft gloves you would be with me at this point rather than playing mind games. Such is the Western ego "nobody tell me what to do" . resistance all the same in westerner, ego based on feelings from the past rather than philosophical truth or debate. I don't know you, I know Western mind. It narcissism. This site is the mellenial site for cherry picking Eckhart tolle and his blasphemy course in miracles concoction. Do me favour buddy

A lot of hypocrisy going on here. You're still living in the past by arguing with me in the first place. Also you fail to realize that I am interpreting your words in my way and also you are interpreting my words in your way. So you also might not have understood at 100% what I have said. You are dividing all the time in your comments, not something an enlightened being, a being that has realized it's one-ness with all would do, no? You are so deceived(or so I think) you are right and you even spilled the beans that you haven't even got rid of your ego. You're following something other than what Leo's videos were at all about, or at least how I perceived them.

Please don't bash on Ekhart, his content is life-saving.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dodoster

[Dodo]

7 minutes ago, Socrates said:

What do you know about "enlightened being"? Jack shit. Because your references are from mixed up pluralism of mysticism. Mystic states where ego repression is not enlightement. It's mystic states. You lot want to.lump all in together because you lazy and cannot be bothered to follow traditional training. You want relief from pain now. Eckhart Tolle not enlightened. His garb is concoction of blasphemy. The reverse Bible of satanic based Christianity from course in miracles mixed with his own interpretations of spiritual and mystical teachings. 

Ok you might actually have achieved oneness, maybe you're an endarkened tho  haha

PS: Nice job, oh enlightened one, going back and giving me bad rep on all my comments, my ego now feels pretty hurt I have negative rep on the site, awesome! Helps me with enlightenment

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dodoster

[jjer94]

@Socrates Out of curiosity, how do you define enlightenment?

[Dodo]

36 minutes ago, Socrates said:

You're welcome. Good.luck with becoming. I'll see you in nut house when you realise all your should and definition not out there or makes you enlightened after all buddy friend..

I marked you down because you act ignorant and have bad attitude toward tradition. 

Dude, chill, I am raising my consciousness. Why the nuthouses now? What is wrong with meditation, yoga and reading spiritual books? I also test everything and am doing an empirical investigation. I am living. I have not stopped living to do these things in order to start living after. Relax and leave your misconceptions to yourself. Every person is normal anyway, even a person in a nuthouse - there is nothing wrong with that. Just like every waterfall is normal.

From what I gathered this is the root of enlightenment and I have grasped it on intellectual level. Now I am working on reaching the consciousness level in which I am living from that space. Relax and let me be. There is no free will anyway, so if the dice said I will end up in a nut house - I will. If they said I will end up as a king I will, if they said I will end up as a spiritual guru, I will, if they said I will end up living a regular life,  I will, etc etc etc (I'm not bothered about the future)... It's all normal experience. You can't say if you are into mysticism you're missing the point, because that has nothing to do with it. You're still a person (or not, wink) and can reach the truth.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dodoster

[jjer94]

8 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Enlightenment, you cannot define it. You can only define what is not true and made up in the head as result of being neurotic, having false belief, living in past and future. 

Quit trying to define Enlightenment, enlightened people, enlightened attributes. It's not a religion to be followed. It's moment to moment living and discernment. 

You tell me to stop trying to define enlightenment, but you just defined enlightenment as moment to moment living and discernment...

Well, surely you can't define the non-experience of enlightenment with words, but it is something is it not? The sages of the past (Nisargadatta and Ramana Maharshi) as well as several people today claim to have discovered something they call "enlightenment" or "truth realization" or "full awakening" or whatever. It's not just that they've eliminated all false beliefs and neuroses; they've made the claim that they discovered their true nature, that which is real, eternal, and timeless. 

Of course, this is all hearsay, but when you have thousands of people making the same claim about their true nature being beyond the body and mind, you can't help but wonder if they're all talking about the same thing...that the concept of enlightenment is perhaps definable...that it could be defined as "the realization of your true nature." Of course, along with that is destroying all false conceptions, but that's kind of a given.

So have you actually done that? Gone beyond your finite body and mind to find your true nature, that which is timeless and unassailable? Because if you're just living moment to moment, I'd say you're only at one stretch of the journey towards enlightenment and have a ways to go. 

[Dodo]

This guy is a master class at ego triggering. I applaud that and I find it helpful

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dodoster

[SkyPanther]

28 minutes ago, Socrates said:

@Dodoster You have to live with th arrogance. Not me. I have Enlightenment, you have blasphemy and ego games, hours of study. Mind.corruption, mental illness, self deception, no life because you on internet asking unenlightened people what enlightenment is, arguing with seasoned mediatiors. And thinking you are at ease because you sitting there practicing non attachment while I'm living and dealing with more things than answering your silly emails.  I know which one i prefer 

I think you are right that Zen, Burmese and Thai teachers there will be very confrontational and sometimes physically so (without actual malice) because as soon as they see that they are getting under your skin, they will pick at that egoic wound and try to make it a bloody gash.  Than you either leave because your ego has been so affronted, or you take it till the ego surrenders and you get that moment where you go "I just realized I was the one making my life a living hell by taking all of this personally".  As soon as that happens, and the teacher sees it, the teacher stops picking at you.

With most Westerners that is a challenge, because from birth the ego and "self esteem" is the first thing they teach you in school.  "Your special!" That sticks with most people and they take it as a weird doctrine of egoic one upmanship.

So the teachers here have taken a different tactic, which has its own pitfalls of creating Spiritual Egos.  

This is why I agree with @Henri, if people are serious about seeing enlightenment for what it is, leave the country(western society), and go to India, Thailand, Japan, etc, and actually get a teacher that follows the tradition that makes the most sense to you.  That may be Vedanta/Hinduism, Zen/Theravada/Tibetan Buddhism, etc, but it actually follows the original teachings and not a mishmash of Eckhart Tolle, Alan Watts, Osho, Ken Wilber.

Who all may be "enlightened" (or not) but all have a different way of getting there which may not be compatible if someone else is trying to get there.

Stick to one thing instead of jumping around and use the teachings as a tool than discard it once you have cleared up all the concepts and ideas you think are "reality". 

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

I think you are right that Zen, Burmese and Thai teachers there will be very confrontational and sometimes physically so (without actual malice) because as soon as they see that they are getting under your skin, they will pick at that egoic wound and try to make it a bloody gash.  Than you either leave because your ego has been so affronted, or you take it till the ego surrenders and you get that moment where you go "I just realized I was the one making my life a living hell by taking all of this personally".  As soon as that happens, and the teacher sees it, the teacher stops picking at you.

With most Westerners that is a challenge, because from birth the ego and "self esteem" is the first thing they teach you in school.  "Your special!" That sticks with most people and they take it as a weird doctrine of egoic one upmanship.

So the teachers here have taken a different tactic, which has its own pitfalls of creating Spiritual Egos.  

This is why I agree with @Henri, if people are serious about seeing enlightenment for what it is, leave the country(western society), and go to India, Thailand, Japan, etc, and actually get a teacher that follows the tradition that makes the most sense to you.  That may be Vedanta/Hinduism, Zen/Theravada/Tibetan Buddhism, etc, but it actually follows the original teachings and not a mishmash of Eckhart Tolle, Alan Watts, Osho, Ken Wilber.

Who all may be "enlightened" (or not) but all have a different way of getting there which may not be compatible if someone else is trying to get there.

Stick to one thing instead of jumping around and use the teachings as a tool than discard it once you have cleared up all the concepts and ideas you think are "reality". 

Nice comment, but what if (in my case) I see that all they are talking about is the same thing. All of those teachings I can see they are talking about the exact same thing  from their different angles and it seems pretty solid to me what they are pointing at. Btw, I am from Bulgaria, then I lived few years of my life in England, then I moved back in Bulgaria, and now I am going back to England. So I am not that Western. Bulgarians have different culture, so don't put me in common denominator - not that anyone should. (This last point is more towards Socrates than you)

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dodoster

[Henri]

@Dodoster Spirituality spoken, there`s no difference between the UK and Bulgaria. Both western and christian nations.