I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[Amanaki]

5 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Not many Buddhists here to my experience. So you are more than welcome. Most people here seem to gain input from hinduists / advaita vedanta streams. Although they seem to mix concepts and teachings from Buddhism with them, maybe thinking they point to the same..

Makes it hard to communicate with them as you are basically talking to a different world. They are forming a belief towards absolute consciousness and in Buddhism you are thought to look through these as they come out of ignorance.

Not much to gain here for a searching Buddhist. How far are you on the path?

In years i have cultivated for 20 years, but if you think of wisdom level it is not something i talk a lot about, because it is easy to misunderstand, but in meditation i come to the point of no thoughts arise. and meditation is no longer bound to sitting meditation

[Emanyalpsid]

4 minutes ago, Amanaki said:

In years i have cultivated for 20 years, but if you think of wisdom level it is not something i talk a lot about, because it is easy to misunderstand, but in meditation i come to the point of no thoughts arise. and meditation is no longer bound to sitting meditation

Okay thanks, yeah it is difficult explaining where you are on the path. Maybe this website will help you further, it explains all of the teachings, up until Nirvana, but from the point of the Western thinking mind. So the teachings are easy to understand as they are easier to relate to from our way of thinking. You first might read some things you already know, but it is worth the whole read to get the full understanding. Probably takes you only 2 hours or so. Of course you can also skip chapters if you want.

http://www.foundationsofhumanlife.com

May you be well! 

[Amanaki]

2 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Okay thanks, yeah it is difficult explaining where you are on the path. Maybe this website will help you further, it explains all of the teachings, up until Nirvana, but from the point of the Western thinking mind. So the teachings are easy to understand as they are easier to relate to from our way of thinking. You first might read some things you already know, but it is worth the whole read to get the full understanding. Probably takes you only 2 hours or so. Of course you can also skip chapters if you want.

http://www.foundationsofhumanlife.com

May you be well! 

Thank you. I will take a look at the website

I studied the suttas in The long discourse of the buddha. (digha nikaya) and meditated vipassa meditation.

May you be well too

[Forestluv]

Be mindful of unintentional thread hijacking. This is @winterknight‘s thread to answer question’s regarding enlightenment. 

[Amanaki]

8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Be mindful of unintentional thread hijacking. This is @winterknight‘s thread to answer question’s regarding enlightenment. 

Yes i agree to your request. i was only answering a question, but maybe a PM would have been better

[Forestluv]

@Amanaki You guys are good, no worries. A brief side exchange in the thread is fine. Winterknight has been diligently attending to the thread and keeping it on track.

[Preetom]

@winterknight

As I've been doing self inquiry for a while now, I notice some side effects

A recurring fear of 'forgetting' stuff. There pops up thoughts like I might forget very basic stuff like not recognizing my parent's faces, forget everything I learnt in school, forget how to talk etc.

I get that these are all egoic defense mechanisms to make me stop inquiry and I tend to keep dis-identifying from these contents. Maybe at night in bed, I'll have a thought that I might forget how to operate my computer but next morning, I do it just fine. I can see this is groundless fear but it has huge potential to trap me big time if they are not checked immediately.

I guess the ego is freaking out from the progressive loss of 'doership'.

My question is, did you have to deal with this issue as well? Is it kind of normal in this path?

[winterknight]

2 hours ago, Preetom said:

@winterknight

As I've been doing self inquiry for a while now, I notice some side effects

A recurring fear of 'forgetting' stuff. There pops up thoughts like I might forget very basic stuff like not recognizing my parent's faces, forget everything I learnt in school, forget how to talk etc.

I get that these are all egoic defense mechanisms to make me stop inquiry and I tend to keep dis-identifying from these contents. Maybe at night in bed, I'll have a thought that I might forget how to operate my computer but next morning, I do it just fine. I can see this is groundless fear but it has huge potential to trap me big time if they are not checked immediately.

I guess the ego is freaking out from the progressive loss of 'doership'.

My question is, did you have to deal with this issue as well? Is it kind of normal in this path?

Not exactly like this, but fears about doership are quite common.

My advice might in this case be not to ignore or condemn the fear, but to listen to it. What is it really saying? What is it rooted in? Express and metaphorize the fear. Really try to parse it out. Why would you fear not recognizing your parents' faces? Where did that idea even come from? Was there any kind of memory loss in your family or your life to date?

Any recurring fear is trying to communicate a message. Never steamroll a fear of that kind. Listen to it, try to understand what it is saying, and, if possible, attempt to respond to that fear -- it has an insight for you, and see if you can integrate that into your perspective and your actions.

That is the real and best way to make it further your practice instead of act as an obstacle.

[graded24]

@winterknight  I know I have asked a similar question before and you answered but tbh I am still not sure how to deal with thoughts of 'things i should do'. So let me ask with a specific example this time.

I woke up today and my wife told me i have gained a lot of weight. I check my weight and indeed there is a 2kg weight gain. So now there is a clear sense of urgency that i should start exercising and lose this weight before it gets out of hand. There is also a slight self judgement about being lazy past couple of months. Of course I am meta-aware of these as they arise. 

Now, my question is, being on the self-inquiry path, what should be my response now? I can clearly see the egoic structure at play here .. about protecting my body image, remaining attractive etc. Though of course there is also a general health perspective. The problem is, if I steer this all into the self-inquiry direction (who is that wants to lose weight?), that would be muddying the waters and i would lose this clear intention to lose weight.. and most probably would get back to my lazy ways.

The exact same thing applies when a concern about work arises. It often arises in the form of fear of my future, so I have been steering it all into self inquiry direction and lo and behold, I pretty much havent worked at all in last month or so. So at some point spirituality starts looking like an excuse for the part of the ego that doesnt want to work.  This way i am gonna be a fat lazy unemployed bastard in no time ;P 

I know you keep saying in reality i dont have to do any of these.. but lets say, my thoughts have to do these work and they are asking what the response should be. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by graded24

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, graded24 said:

what should be my response now?

This assumes the existence of a chooser / doer. . . 

[graded24]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This assumes the existence of a chooser / doer. . . 

There is no doer but there is doing. That doing will be affected by what eyes read here. 

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, graded24 said:

There is no doer but there is doing. That doing will be affected by what eyes read here. 

 

31 minutes ago, graded24 said:

what should be my response now?

The overall tone of your post suggested to me the terms "should", "my" and "response" were used with an assumption of a chooser / doer within a timeline. 

Without the assumption of a chooser / doer in a timeline, the post no longer makes sense to me.

 

 

[graded24]

58 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

 

The overall tone of your post suggested to me the terms "should", "my" and "response" were used with an assumption of a chooser / doer within a timeline. 

Without the assumption of a chooser / doer in a timeline, the post no longer makes sense to me.

 

 

I mean 'should, me,my' are just words. The question is  basically thoughts interacting with other thoughts. You can rewrite them without using I,me,my and shoulds.

Edited December 10, 2018 by graded24

[graded24]

@winterknight There is another unrelated question. 

A self inquiry is a constant discovery and rediscovery of what I Am not. But sometimes it is tempting to try and Be what I Am. Kinda, Be that empty space of knowingness in which all phenomena is appearing. Though often that feels like a trick of the mind: it creates an object that it thinks Self is and then tries to identify with it. 

My question is, as a matter of practice, should i always engage in negation (what I am not) or should i also engage in affirmation (what I am)?

[Forestluv]

30 minutes ago, graded24 said:

Those are just words. See beyond them. 

Of course, they are just words. We use words as pointers all the time and we use words for convenience in conversation.

I'm not referring to intellectual and conceptual usages. I'm referring to direct experience. You appear to be at a "witness + object" stage. Your usage of the words, to me, suggest that ego death has not fully revealed itself through direct experience and has not been fully embodied. If it had, you wouldn't be asking the questions you are. This goes much much deeper than concepts and figuring things out. Facing the death of self through direct experience was by far the most terrifying experiences my mind-body has ever gone through. Thinking is a walk in the park vs. facing it through direct experience.

I thought offering a pointer may help in your situation, yet your mind seems more open to winterknight's approach - which is fine, different minds resonate with different pointers.

[graded24]

30 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Of course, they are just words. We use words as pointers all the time and we use words for convenience in conversation.

I'm not referring to intellectual and conceptual usages. I'm referring to direct experience. You appear to be at a "witness + object" stage. Your usage of the words, to me, suggest that ego death has not fully revealed itself through direct experience and has not been fully embodied. This goes much much deeper than concepts and figuring things out. Facing the death of self through direct experience was by far the most terrifying experiences my mind-body has ever gone through. Thinking is a walk in the park vs. facing it through direct experience.

I thought offering a pointer may help in your situation, yet your mind seems more open to winterknight's approach - which is fine, different minds resonate with different pointers.

How did this ego death come about? 

I am self inquiring so of course my ego death hasn't taken place. That's the very purpose. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by graded24

[Forestluv]

27 minutes ago, graded24 said:

How did this ego death come about? 

I spent over 20yrs in meditation and buddhism and never got past the "witness + object" stage. The first ego death experiences came with a few solo psychedelic trips, which were so powerful that I took it to the next level by attending an Ayahuasca retreat with a tribe in Peru. It was really intense and beyond any description, yet it was non-abiding - what followed was a period of integration and gradual ego dissolution. Yet for me, the direct experience with ego death greatly accelerated the pace. Baseline consciousness level has increased with meditation, yoga, self inquiry and nonduality teachings. The nondual pyschedelic experiences opened up nondual experiences while sober. They can have anxiety/fear when the ego struggles for control. Yet, over time - they have become more common with less resistance.

This is just one approach. There are many. It seems like winterknight's approach is resonating with you. If so, go with that. It just didn't get me over the hump until after a few psychedelic trips - then it started falling in place.

[graded24]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I spent over 20yrs in meditation and buddhism and never got past the "witness + object" stage. The first ego death experiences came with a few solo psychedelic trips, which were so powerful that I took it to the next level by attending an Ayahuasca retreat with a tribe in Peru. It was really intense and beyond any description, yet it was non-abiding - what followed was a period of integration and gradual ego dissolution. Yet for me, the direct experience with ego death greatly accelerated the pace. Baseline consciousness level has increased with meditation, yoga, self inquiry and nonduality teachings. The nondual pyschedelic experiences opened up nondual experiences while sober. They can have anxiety/fear when the ego struggles for control. Yet, over time - they have become more common. I am no super sensitive to psychedelics and rarely use them for ego death anymore. 

This is just one approach. There are many. It seems like winterknight's approach is resonating with you. If so, go with that. It just didn't get me over the hump until after a few psychedelic trips - then it started falling in place.

I also had an analytic / science oriented mind - your progression is really interesting to me.

Yes, right now i have more trust in traditional approaches laid out by the sages and have an open mind about using psychedelic  to 'accelerate' , should the opportunity present itself.  (I do meditate on cannabis once in a while but thats about it)
 I feel there is a reason why the great traditions/sages do not include  Psychedelics extensively as part of the path. They dont forbid it but caution against relying on it. It's not that they didn't know about it. Psychedelics are great to give one a glimpse of the Truth. But to actually move there permanently, one has to adopt one of the traditional approaches. 

[winterknight]

2 hours ago, graded24 said:

@winterknight  I know I have asked a similar question before and you answered but tbh I am still not sure how to deal with thoughts of 'things i should do'. So let me ask with a specific example this time.

I woke up today and my wife told me i have gained a lot of weight. I check my weight and indeed there is a 2kg weight gain. So now there is a clear sense of urgency that i should start exercising and lose this weight before it gets out of hand. There is also a slight self judgement about being lazy past couple of months. Of course I am meta-aware of these as they arise. 

Now, my question is, being on the self-inquiry path, what should be my response now? I can clearly see the egoic structure at play here .. about protecting my body image, remaining attractive etc. Though of course there is also a general health perspective. The problem is, if I steer this all into the self-inquiry direction (who is that wants to lose weight?), that would be muddying the waters and i would lose this clear intention to lose weight.. and most probably would get back to my lazy ways.

The exact same thing applies when a concern about work arises. It often arises in the form of fear of my future, so I have been steering it all into self inquiry direction and lo and behold, I pretty much havent worked at all in last month or so. So at some point spirituality starts looking like an excuse for the part of the ego that doesnt want to work.  This way i am gonna be a fat lazy unemployed bastard in no time ;P 

I know you keep saying in reality i dont have to do any of these.. but lets say, my thoughts have to do these work and they are asking what the response should be. 

Yes, well, the problem is that you are attached to your goals, attaching to negatively judging yourself, attached to the ideas of things like "weight loss" and "normal work habits" and much more.

So, of course, it is not as simple as saying "be unattached" -- you can't get rid of those attachments that easily.

But this is exactly why my philosophy is and always has been to be honest about your desire. 

Maybe you don't want to lose weight. Maybe you don't want to do better at work. Stop lying to yourself and telling yourself that you do.

That's one thing.

But if you are nagged by these "shoulds," what you need to do is to start going deep into those shoulds, and also into your own desires to resist doing what you "should" do -- and examine their meanings.

How to do that? Well, this is why I have always recommended psychoanalysis and related therapies (which you're trying to get, right?). That's one way of skinning that cat. Another is metaphorization: that is, symbolic expression -- artistic expression -- of your feelings in great detail. Try to communicate them so that someone else could feel them, could understand them. Compare your feelings to other things. What are they like or unlike?

And watch how you feel as you do various things, so you can start to see where you are lying to yourself. "I want to lose weight." You say that, but how do you actually feel when you say that? Do you actually feel any enthusiasm, or only a negative judgment self-directed at yourself, that probably comes from your family, from society, or other loved ones? Time to start noticing these things, and being increasingly honest about what you actually feel, not what you "should" feel, "think you feel," "want to feel," etc. -- and aligning your actions accordingly.

Ideally you'd be able to say "You know what? I don't want to lose weight. So I am proudly going to not lose weight." All this talk about laziness is a load of dishonest bullshit -- "lazy" is a nonsense term. There is only honest and dishonest.

Anyway, this is off the top of my head. These motivational resistances and self-judgments are the heart of the Search.

1 hour ago, graded24 said:

@winterknight There is another unrelated question. 

A self inquiry is a constant discovery and rediscovery of what I Am not. But sometimes it is tempting to try and Be what I Am. Kinda, Be that empty space of knowingness in which all phenomena is appearing. Though often that feels like a trick of the mind: it creates an object that it thinks Self is and then tries to identify with it. 

My question is, as a matter of practice, should i always engage in negation (what I am not) or should i also engage in affirmation (what I am)?

No, no affirmation, only negation. The opposite of negation is not affirmation but a profound mental silence. If that happens, the thought will not even occur to you as to whether you should "affirm" that or not... as soon as you say "Gee whiz, I am Peace" -- boom, you've already left that Silence.

Edited December 10, 2018 by winterknight

[Forestluv]

22 minutes ago, graded24 said:

Yes, right now i have more trust in traditional approaches laid out by the sages and have an open mind about using psychedelic  to 'accelerate' , should the opportunity present itself.  (I do meditate on cannabis once in a while but thats about it)
 I feel there is a reason why the great traditions/sages do not include  Psychedelics extensively as part of the path. They dont forbid it but caution against relying on it. It's not that they didn't know about it. Psychedelics are great to give one a glimpse of the Truth. But to actually move there permanently, one has to adopt one of the traditional approaches. 

I made similar assumptions until I lived within a great tradition/sages that do include psychedelics extensively as part of the path. Yes, it's only one tool that should be integrated with other tools - yet it was the most powerful tool IME. After 20yrs of traditional meditation, I finally became willing to try something more radical. I learned more during that first ego death experience than those 20yrs of meditation. Afterwards, I thought "So thaaaaat's what those buddhist monks were talking about all those years". . .

It seems like you are getting close with your methods. If you have momentum, go with it. . .