I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, graded24 said:

Ok great, this analogy explains what you meant. 

So let me push further. In my case, upon waking up, id see that the idea was stupid and only seemed real because I was asleep.  But the rough idea would still be here with me even now. 

Is it the same with you and mind? Is the mind still there with you and just is not as meaningful or real as it once looked when you were 'asleep'?

It goes a little further. Because here it is not just any idea that was nonsensical and meaningless. It's the idea of a mind itself. So I can't say that the mind is still there but just not as meaningful -- it is only someone who believed in the mind who would say that. But the mind is precisely what is gibberish.

[graded24]

9 minutes ago, winterknight said:

The problem is you're asking about my experience. If you ask about my experience, that's the kind of answer you will have to get, because what I see is literally incomprehensible to someone who is not seeing the same. I could lie and tell you, "yes, the body-mind is within my awareness." But why not ask about your experience?

No, it's more like you had an idea for an invention in a dream that you thought was amazing. When you woke up, it literally did not make any sense. Put two teacups together and they form an airplane? What?

The analogy between me and the mind is like between you and that idea.

The wakinh up from a dream analogy for enlightenment is quite common in nonduality so let me ask something about that. 

When I wake up from a dream, that world is gone and I cannot even interact with that illusory world and people in it anymore. However enlightened ones seem like are still interacting with their dream people, like me. 

[winterknight]

2 minutes ago, graded24 said:

The wakinh up from a dream analogy for enlightenment is quite common in nonduality so let me ask something about that. 

When I wake up from a dream, that world is gone and I cannot even interact with that illusory world and people in it anymore. However enlightened ones seem like are still interacting with their dream people, like me. 

Well, that's what it appears to be from the viewpoint of those who are still dreaming. But that may not be the case from the viewpoint of the enlightened ones.

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[graded24]

4 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It goes a little further. Because here it is not just any idea that was nonsensical and meaningless. It's the idea of a mind itself. So I can't say that the mind is still there but just not as meaningful -- it is only someone who believed in the mind who would say that. But the mind is precisely what is gibberish.

I see. Understood.

Does the room get the same status too? That the whole idea of 'you being in a room' is gibberish and nonsensical.?

[winterknight]

Just now, graded24 said:

I see. Understood.

Does the room get the same status too? That the whole idea of 'you being in a room' is gibberish and nonsensical.?

Yes. But, but, but then... where is my body typing these words? Is it not in a room? No. Does my body not exist? No, it doesn't. So what are all these appearances? You cannot even call them appearances. All you can say in the end is: the Unnameable Silence Is.

[graded24]

4 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Yes. But, but, but then... where is my body typing these words? Is it not in a room? No. Does my body not exist? No, it doesn't. So what are all these appearances? You cannot even call them appearances. All you can say in the end is: the Unnameable Silence Is.

Why can't I call them appearances? A dream is illusory with respect to waking state,  but it is still an appearance, no? Can you please expand on that. 

I'd apologize for taking  too much of your time, but since there is no time for you..

[winterknight]

2 minutes ago, graded24 said:

Why can't I call them appearances? A dream is illusory with respect to waking state,  but it is still an appearance, no? Can you please expand on that. 

I'd apologize for taking  too much of your time, but since there is no time for you..

Because an appearance is still a category in mind. All the mental categories are false. And how right you are about time 

I mean, for seekers the appearance/reality distinction can be useful, though... so go with that if it helps.

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[graded24]

@winterknight you did not answer a question I asked previously. What is I-ness to you now? What is the I? 

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, graded24 said:

@winterknight you did not answer a question I asked previously. What is I-ness to you now? What is the I? 

It is exactly that which cannot be put into words.

[graded24]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It is exactly that which cannot be put into words.

Cmon, just try. With analogies if you need them. I'm sure I won't get it but perhaps it would guard against any false awakenings 

[winterknight]

Just now, graded24 said:

Cmon, just try. With analogies if you need them. I'm sure I won't get it but perhaps it would guard against any false awakenings 

It is what it is when you stare at a beautiful landscape and then you blank out for a moment and then "come back." Where were you in that moment when you blanked out?

[graded24]

@winterknight would you buy into the description that your mind/brain was creating your world, including the I,  and years of yoga, meditation changed its working so now it's all changed?

[graded24]

3 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It is what it is when you stare at a beautiful landscape and then you blank out for a moment and then "come back." Where were you in that moment when you blanked out?

Sorry I don't think I ever noticed that I blanked out for a moment looking at a beautiful thing. 

[electroBeam]

8 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It is what it is when you stare at a beautiful landscape and then you blank out for a moment and then "come back." Where were you in that moment when you blanked out?

but that thing doesn't exist. How is that at all related to everything?

EDIT: actually it does exist, a better word is undefinable. 

EDIT 2: actually, that's energy

Edited November 13, 2018 by electroBeam

[winterknight]

11 minutes ago, graded24 said:

@winterknight would you buy into the description that your mind/brain was creating your world, including the I,  and years of yoga, meditation changed its working so now it's all changed?

No, I can't buy into that because those are all mental descriptions that believe that spiritual change is real. The actual truth is that I -- and you -- have never not been free, have never not known the truth. But as a seeker, you will have to discover this, paradoxically, through effort. It is true that changing your mind through meditation, yoga will prepare you to grasp the truth, but those changes are not themselves the enlightenment.

7 minutes ago, graded24 said:

Sorry I don't think I ever noticed that I blanked out for a moment looking at a beautiful thing. 

How about if you're driving? Ever zone out then and suddenly find yourself nearer your destination, but not really having remembered the last few minutes? 

Or what about in the morning, have you ever woken up and had a second just before you remembered who you were or where you were or anything about anything or anyone, but were just sort of totally blank?

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[winterknight]

5 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

but that thing doesn't exist. How is that at all related to everything?

EDIT: actually it does exist, a better word is undefinable. 

EDIT 2: actually, that's energy

I liked undefinable 

[electroBeam]

7 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Or what about in the morning, have you ever woken up and had a second just before you remembered who you were or where you were or anything about anything or anyone, but were just sort of totally blank?

it might be possible to actually not be aware of voidness during those blanks, if you were not prepared (as in you were not meditating)

There are many times where I would zone out and voidness would be present, but I would not notice it,

yet when I'm meditating and zone out it would be clear that voidness exist.

Maybe you need to actually be looking for voidness when you blank out.

An analogy is pain. Everybody feels suffering and pain, but does anyone actually inspect and observe what pain is actually made of? If they did they would realize pain isn't actually pain, its something totally different to what they thought it was, it looked different when you didn't inspect it, when you inspected it now it looks like ordinary phenomena like everything else.

This is how illusions work. 

another analogy is this:

imaging looking at your window, thinking its dirty, now imagine the owner of the window says 'that window is made of diamond'

now you will be shitting yourself. But both before and after the other dude said that, the appearance was the same.

Voidness and pain are the same, the appearance remains the same but awareness is like the dude. It shines an understanding onto that appearance. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by electroBeam

[graded24]

15 minutes ago, winterknight said:

No, I can't buy into that because those are all mental descriptions that believe that spiritual change is real. The actual truth is that I -- and you -- have never not been free, have never not known the truth. But as a seeker, you will have to discover this, paradoxically, through effort. It is true that changing your mind through meditation, yoga will prepare you to grasp the truth, but those changes are not themselves the enlightenment.

How about if you're driving? Ever zone out then and suddenly find yourself nearer your destination, but not really having remembered the last few minutes? 

Or what about in the morning, have you ever woken up and had a second just before you remembered who you were or where you were or anything about anything or anyone, but were just sort of totally blank?

Yes, I can relate to the morning one. But it is very short and not even clear what happened in retrospect. But if 'not remembering who i am' is what you are looking for, then i have stable one of those: I sometimes meditate on weed. There is no remembrance of who i am, where i am. I cant even remember how my face looks like. As i close my eyes there is a space with bodily sensations and sounds appearing in it. No body contours. The memory of the past seems so distant and totally alien. Then I turn around (not literally, just in that internal space) to see who/what is experiencing all this and it is a TOTAL mystery. There is a sense of an "I" but it has no idea what it is.  The "I" is not totally one with the space but it is hard to find boundaries either. 

What is this I?

[Mu_]

5 minutes ago, graded24 said:

Yes, I can relate to the morning one. But it is very short and not even clear what happened in retrospect. But if 'not remembering who i am' is what you are looking for, then i have stable one of those: I sometimes meditate on weed. There is no remembrance of who i am, where i am. I cant even remember how my face looks like. As i close my eyes there is a space with bodily sensations and sounds appearing in it. No body contours. The memory of the past seems so distant and totally alien. Then I turn around (not literally, just in that internal space) to see who/what is experiencing all this and it is a TOTAL mystery. There is a sense of an "I" but it has no idea what it is.  The "I" is not totally one with the space but it is hard to find boundaries either. 

What is this I?

More importantly whats aware of this I? 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Mu_

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, graded24 said:

Yes, I can relate to the morning one. But it is very short and not even clear what happened in retrospect. But if 'not remembering who i am' is what you are looking for, then i have stable one of those: I sometimes meditate on weed. There is no remembrance of who i am, where i am. I cant even remember how my face looks like. As i close my eyes there is a space with bodily sensations and sounds appearing in it. No body contours. The memory of the past seems so distant and totally alien. Then I turn around (not literally, just in that internal space) to see who/what is experiencing all this and it is a TOTAL mystery. There is a sense of an "I" but it has no idea what it is.  The "I" is not totally one with the space but it is hard to find boundaries either. 

What is this I?

Yes, so both of these are glimpses, but the morning one is closer ("not even clear what happened in retrospect" -- yes).

The true I cannot be described or known as an object.

You are that I even right this very second, and being that I is itself a very special kind of knowing. It seems like you don't know it because you are looking through the lens of the mind, and the true I to the mind seems like literally nothing, but nothing is actually not nothing.

This being the true I is not the kind of knowing that can be remembered, talked about, or described accurately, as you've already experienced.