I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[Aakash]

@Jkris the Buddhist tradition is as followed take your attachment away from the cigarettes by not doing it and eventually it will go away. 

Whether it is slowly or cold turkey is only the method. The issue is your metaknowledge definition of what smoking is. 

This is your opinion about smoking 

“I” like smoking , smoking is not harmful in the short term, “i” can not go without smoking for two or more days. 

You could rehabilitate your knowledge of cigarettes. 

Smoking can cause cancer, smoking can cause illnesses. Etc. 

This is an option. 

Another method I tell people is when you feel like smoking to say the following sentence 

“ I am thinking that I feel like smoking, do I really need it at this moment? ” and just sit with this thought for about 10-15 minutes before each cigarette. 

The issue here is that your biological brain and neurochemical/ hormonal structures have attached itself to smoking. Going cold turkey or gradually stopping is to reduce this impact, this is the withdrawal symptom phase. 

In this phase you could either meditate or distract yourself with something else other than smoking. 

Just do this for about a year as the 12 step programmes for addiction suggest and you will find even if you smoke again, you will not enjoy the taste. 

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, Jkris said:

@winterknight I am addicted to smoking.Now want to quit smoking.

I guess there is no proper treatment cure for addiction - the crave - the urge which is psycho-somtic.

I have to decided to quit abruptly - cold turkey.As I dont believe in gradual reduction,Nicotine patches etc

Taking lot of cold water might help.

Guess it will take lot of effort mindfully observing witnessing the craving or the opposite focus the attention on craving conciously continously the craving inner resistance impatience temptation building.

Continously alert for few months till it never appears.

Please advice what is the best effective way - as addiction is the strongest pull than all other.

Other emotions it is easy to let go conciously but guess addiction goes much deeper.

???

Well, it's the same advice I give for everything . Get psychoanalysis, self-inquire, etc.

I mean, you can try to do a few other practical things: know & avoid your smoking triggers, change up your social situations where you would usually smoke, etc.

But those are at the margins. The real issue is going to be at the emotional level for you, and whether there are conflicts in your unconscious that will drive you back or not.

[Jkris]

@Aakash Dear Akash thank you for your valuable inputs.Will go through the 12 steps de addiction as well.

I will just share my current limited level of understanding.

why addiction is impossible to treat with counselling that it will cause heart attack,stroke,paralysis,cancer is addiction is beyond the realm of reasoning.

I dont like smoking i dont find it pleasurable I am just finding relief from the craving a temporary relief.once the blood nictotine level reduces the need to maintain that level causes craving and the cycle repeats.

To transcend something one need be concious of that to have a thorough concious understanding direct knowledge of what it is in direct experience.

Craving has become an habit.Craving-Release of craving.It is a repetative habit.

So to overcome addiction first i need to have a genuine intention to quit smoking.

Concious understanding that by indulging one can never quit smoking or transcend addiction.

I need to be mindful what actually is craving see what is craving.Shouldnt try to escape from craving but face it feel it.How it convinces the mind to yield and take the cigarette.

but at the same time not to give in to the urge and indulge in smoking. 

How craving develops how craving diminishes or vanishes.

Even after few days if success I shouldnt fall for the just one cigarette trap.

Possible Withdrawal symptoms - impatience,irritation,tension,stress,mood imbalances,sweating,dehydration,headache.

So buprion (buproprion) anti depressant might be of some help in easing.

This is the plan I am having + cold water.

-------------------------------- let us hear from Winterknight's wisdom from physchology point of view as well as self enquiry,meditation point of view as well.

Still wondering why great saints like Nisargadatta Maharaj,Yogi Ram Surat baba - enlightened masters experts of self enquiry,meditation etc didnt quit smoking just like that ???

Obviously they must have mastered transcended their 5 senses - Freedom from Sense pleasures(sense suffering ???)

Shun sense pleasures like poison - Ashtavakra ???

@winterknight

???

 

 

 

[Aakash]

8 minutes ago, winterknight said:

But those are at the margins. The real issue is going to be at the emotional level for you, and whether there are conflicts in your unconscious that will drive you back or not.

Yup I completely agree with this. Great advice. 

[Jkris]

@winterknight ???will  go to Nimhans (Bangalore) to find best psycoanalysis theraphist.Current place where I live (Salem - Tamilnadu) there are no such theraphists.

Heard hypnotheraphy is also effective for de-addiction.

Will share how it goes.

???

[Aakash]

A question my second favourite guru, in the self inquiry process. Anything of use of Mind, I.e me calling you a guru. Or the mind distorting pure awareness by forming distinction. 

When I stop using my mind, I go into a deep meditative state where I am nothing. I can not do this permanently. But I presume this is what it means to give up so self. It wouldn’t matter what happened in the world of form. You would be “there” for a lack of a better word. 

Even if I ask who is the “i” I’ve stopped defining it. 

Am I doing the process correctly, 

i feel like seeking is impossible. It’s to seek until the seeker itself dissolved into being  

[outlandish]

16 minutes ago, Nic Terpstra said:

@winterknight you didn’t even answer Leo’s question you fucking muppet 

I don't have the time to crawl through the thread and be a referee, but please don't use name calling language, it's against forum rules and bad taste to boot.

[winterknight]

2 hours ago, Nic Terpstra said:

@winterknight you didn’t even answer Leo’s question you fucking muppet 

I did, actually. 

2 hours ago, Nic Terpstra said:

@winterknight How exactly am I god imagining all this? How is my identification with Nic Terpstra an illusion? 

I've never said you were God imagining all this. And your identification with Nic Terpstra is an illusion in the sense that it might seem to exist but doesn't. It's not something anyone can prove to you, only suggest its plausibility, and then you have to look into the matter yourself.

[psychedelicsresearch]

Hello winterknight,

I have read through your responses in this thread and confess to being impressed, not least by your patience. The reason I joined this forum is because I am an academic psychedelics researcher, and the underlying motivation for my work is that I want to identify how psychedelics can help and hinder progress on the spiritual path.

In your responses to questions about the spiritual merits of psychedelics, you have outlined some ways in which they can be helpful, but also indicated that they are not sufficient. Would you be willing to go a bit deeper into this? If so, for my first question I would like to ask if you can mention some ways in which psychedelics can be a hindrance on the path?

For my second question, I would like to look into the "glimpses of the truth" which you say psychedelics can provide. I am sorry if this seems like a frivolous question, but is it possible to specify reasons why obtaining such glimpses is beneficial for seekers? Under what circumstances may the pursuit of glimpses become an obstacle on the path?

I have other questions too

Thank you

 

On 27.2.2019 at 3:16 PM, winterknight said:

Yes, I have tried them before and after. In my experience I think they can be useful for giving some glimpses of the truth (and they're really cool), but I think regardless of them, one has to do the work in non-psychedelic states.

On 24.5.2019 at 1:28 AM, winterknight said:

They can be useful to open your eyes and provide some insight and motivation, but I don’t believe they can replace the rest of the spiritual path. You must still deal with your intellectual doubts and your psychological obstacles. And you must still look inward, whether in the depth of a psychedelic experience or not, to clear away the ignorance.

[winterknight]

2 hours ago, psychedelicsresearch said:

Hello winterknight,

I have read through your responses in this thread and confess to being impressed, not least by your patience. The reason I joined this forum is because I am an academic psychedelics researcher, and the underlying motivation for my work is that I want to identify how psychedelics can help and hinder progress on the spiritual path.In your responses to questions about the spiritual merits of psychedelics, you have outlined some ways in which they can be helpful, but also indicated that they are not sufficient. Would you be willing to go a bit deeper into this? If so, for my first question I would like to ask if you can mention some ways in which psychedelics can be a hindrance on the path?

They're a hindrance when believe that people can be taken to Truth (i.e. enlightenment) through them and so neglect other parts of the spiritual path.

The problem with believing that psychedelics can take you to Truth is that it misunderstands what Truth is.

Truth is not a place to which one can be taken. It is not a state of consciousness, no matter how amazing, mind-blowing, or infinite. It is not a samadhi, no matter how extraordinary.  Nor can any samadhi, no matter how profound, result in the realization of Truth.

These -- at best -- can be glimpses or intimations or partial awakenings, but never Truth itself.

Not even with integration and embodiment. Actually, Truth cannot be integrated and embodied. To realize Truth is to understand why that's so.

The realization of Truth -- and there is only one such thing, and in fact not even that -- is fundamentally the destruction of certain incoherent unconscious beliefs which are at the root of suffering. These beliefs are based in thinking, that is, in words. These beliefs can only be unraveled  through a clear introspective investigation of them.

That investigation happens through intellectual discernment, not through any particular experience. Words destroy words, logic destroys logic, thinking destroys thinking. No quantity or type of experience can do it, because what is investigated is something common to all experiences. It's a belief that has to be unraveled through examination of experience itself.

So it can have nothing to do with any particular experience, however cosmic, nor can it be the result of such a thing. If it did, it would then become provisional -- temporary -- limited -- and that would defeat the point of Truth.

Truth is effortless perfect peace eternally. If that isn't the case, it can't be called Truth.

Quote

For my second question, I would like to look into the "glimpses of the truth" which you say psychedelics can provide. I am sorry if this seems like a frivolous question, but is it possible to specify reasons why obtaining such glimpses is beneficial for seekers? Under what circumstances may the pursuit of glimpses become an obstacle on the path?

When glimpses become an obsession instead of enlightenment. The pursuit of glimpses is exactly the same as the pursuit of mystical experiences. Actually the pursuit of glimpses is fine if done through self-inquiry, really, because they are happening because of the progressive weakening of the "I" concept.

[psychedelicsresearch]

Thank you for the in-depth response

A summary of what my undestanding obtained from this is that:

I) Psychedelics can induce special experiences including glimpses of Truth, but such experiences are not in themselves Truth, and the tendency to pursue special experience may lead one to neglect other, more helpful, practices. The implication is that one should use psychedelics in moderation, and that such use should be combined with practices.

II) There is an "ultimate" spiritual practice involving a clear introspective investigation of incoherent unconscious beliefs, which is unrelated to any special experience induced by either psychedelics or any other means, such as meditation. Two questions arise from this:

1. Is it possible that psychedelics may facilitate the introspective investigation in some way?
2. Would it be true to say that a pursuit of Truth-glimpses or samadhi experiences via meditation practice - of such intensity as to lead to neglect of self-inquiry - is equally problematic as such a pursuit via psychedelics use?

You did not answer my "frivolous" question, so let me try this way. It seems obvious that having Truth-glimpses has the potential for inspiring and motivating people in the direction of spiritual practice. Can it also go further than this? In my own meditation practice, I have sometimes had experiences (nothing special) that seemed to open me up in some way and deepen the practice. Perhaps it would be correct to say that the experience changed or transformed being.

So my question is: Can psychedelic-induced experiences transform being in such a way as to open one up for deeper (more profound, subtler) experiences in the future? Can such experience even facilitate more depth in other kinds of practice, such as meditation or self-inquiry?

This may be related to using psychedelics "to open your eyes", which you talked about earlier. It seems possible - at least to imagination - that there could be crossover effects and synergy between psychedelic experiences and meditation practice.

 

Again thanks. I hope I am not hijacking your thread with this. If you prefer me to move this discussion to a separate thread, just say the words.

Edited July 5, 2019 by psychedelicsresearch

[Aakash]

@psychedelicsresearch after experiencing omniscience , non dual enlightened beings are not the people to ask about psychedelics. Nonetheless some of what winter soldier says is true. There is a lot of misunderstanding and assumptions in his metaknowledge. Psychadelics are conscious states. They’re exactly the same as doing meditation or any other practice.  They just take you deeper -faster , than monks who have meditated for 40 years or done self inquiry for 40 years.

at the end of the day, wintersolider is right about the destruction of beliefs in suffering causing hindrance to enlightenment. The less you question your assumptions and beliefs the faster you will be enlightened. But for those of us who do question everything, we are left in a sour place, needing answers to everything and therefore it simply goes down to your brain/ mind type and natural curiosity. 

@winterknight Sensai (teacher in Japanese language) you missed my question on the self inquiry process. Can you help me! 

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, psychedelicsresearch said:

The implication is that one should use psychedelics in moderation, and that such use should be combined with practices.

Just to be clear, psychedelics of course need not be used at all, and for some people -- those with a family history of psychosis, for example -- they are contraindicated.

Quote

 

A summary of what my undestanding obtained from this is that:

I) Psychedelics can induce special experiences including glimpses of Truth, but such experiences are not in themselves Truth, and the tendency to pursue special experience may lead one to neglect other, more helpful, practices. The implication is that one should use psychedelics in moderation, and that such use should be combined with practices.

II) There is an "ultimate" spiritual practice involving a clear introspective investigation of incoherent unconscious beliefs, which is unrelated to any special experience induced by either psychedelics or any other means, such as meditation. Two questions arise from this:

Is it possible that psychedelics may facilitate the introspective investigation in some way?

 

They may facilitate by perhaps instilling greater desire for the Truth in the person by giving them a glimpse of it, or perhaps by helping them face some trauma or unconscious psychological issue or gain some intuitive guidance. But that's about it. 

Quote

2. Would it be true to say that a pursuit of Truth-glimpses or samadhi experiences via meditation practice - of such intensity as to lead to neglect of self-inquiry - is equally problematic as such a pursuit via psychedelics use?

Yes, and the Buddha and other say just this.
 

Quote

 

So my question is: Can psychedelic-induced experiences transform being in such a way as to open one up for deeper (more profound, subtler) experiences in the future? Can such experience even facilitate more depth in other kinds of practice, such as meditation or self-inquiry?

This may be related to using psychedelics "to open your eyes", which you talked about earlier. It seems possible - at least to imagination - that there could be crossover effects and synergy between psychedelic experiences and meditation practice.

 

Not really, because there are only really two aspects to seeking realization: purification of mind, and looking inward (inquiry). Psychedelics can help purify the mind under certain circumstances, and can give motivational glimpses of truth, but there's no such thing as "transformation of being" beyond looking inward. 

There's no idea of crossover effects and synergy. All that complexity is misleading.

[winterknight]

22 hours ago, Aakash said:

When I stop using my mind, I go into a deep meditative state where I am nothing. I can not do this permanently. But I presume this is what it means to give up so self. It wouldn’t matter what happened in the world of form. You would be “there” for a lack of a better word. 

Even if I ask who is the “i” I’ve stopped defining it. 

Am I doing the process correctly, 

i feel like seeking is impossible. It’s to seek until the seeker itself dissolved into being  

If this state is peaceful and clear and you can maintain it while going around the world, whatever you are doing -- typing, talking, reading, cooking, working, etc. -- then stay there. If it's limited to eyes-closed situations, it's not enough.

[Aakash]

@winterknight okay thanks, I think I am on the right path for sure! Thanks teach

[psychedelicsresearch]

17 hours ago, winterknight said:

They may facilitate by perhaps instilling greater desire for the Truth in the person by giving them a glimpse of it, or perhaps by helping them face some trauma or unconscious psychological issue or gain some intuitive guidance. But that's about it. 

Thanks! That's already quite a bit of usefulness it seems.

 

17 hours ago, winterknight said:

Yes, and the Buddha and other say just this.
 

So this would seem to mean that the negative potential in spiritual psychedelics use is similar to the negative potential in meditation practice - or at least that the two are structurally similar. Of course, psychedelics obviously give much faster and bigger rewards than meditation, so it is much easier to get obsessed with psychedelics than with meditation, yes?

Edit: I don't mean to say that psychedelics actually give bigger rewards than meditation practice in the long run, but that they do so in the short run.

 

17 hours ago, winterknight said:

Not really, because there are only really two aspects to seeking realization: purification of mind, and looking inward (inquiry). Psychedelics can help purify the mind under certain circumstances, and can give motivational glimpses of truth, but there's no such thing as "transformation of being" beyond looking inward. 

There's no idea of crossover effects and synergy. All that complexity is misleading.

Ok, but the purification of mind is a process, right? It happens gradually over time, which means that there will be different stages of purification. And earlier you mentioned that psychedelics can "open your eyes", which implies that there is a state of having closed eyes and a state of having open eyes, and a possibility of moving between them. This sounds like a big change for a person, and big changes might reasonably be called transformations.

Crossover effects and synergy are not more complex than in the Buddhist eigthfold path, for instance, where a strenghtening of meditation will support an ethical lifestyle and a more ethical lifestyle will support one's meditation practice. Each aspect of the path has crossover effects and synergy with all the other aspects. The same thing happens at school, where what you learn in one class has crossover effects to other classes. It does not seem difficult to place psychedelic practice into such a web of mutually supporting practices.

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by psychedelicsresearch

[winterknight]

3 hours ago, psychedelicsresearch said:

Thanks! That's already quite a bit of usefulness it seems.

 

So this would seem to mean that the negative potential in spiritual psychedelics use is similar to the negative potential in meditation practice - or at least that the two are structurally similar. Of course, psychedelics obviously give much faster and bigger rewards than meditation, so it is much easier to get obsessed with psychedelics than with meditation, yes?

Edit: I don't mean to say that psychedelics actually give bigger rewards than meditation practice in the long run, but that they do so in the short run.

Sure, that seems reasonable. Just to be clear, the kind of meditation that this involves is not self-inquiry. Certain kinds of meditation are about generating the pleasurable concentration states.
 

Quote

 

Ok, but the purification of mind is a process, right? It happens gradually over time, which means that there will be different stages of purification. And earlier you mentioned that psychedelics can "open your eyes", which implies that there is a state of having closed eyes and a state of having open eyes, and a possibility of moving between them. This sounds like a big change for a person, and big changes might reasonably be called transformations.

Crossover effects and synergy are not more complex than in the Buddhist eigthfold path, for instance, where a strenghtening of meditation will support an ethical lifestyle and a more ethical lifestyle will support one's meditation practice. Each aspect of the path has crossover effects and synergy with all the other aspects. The same thing happens at school, where what you learn in one class has crossover effects to other classes. It does not seem difficult to place psychedelic practice into such a web of mutually supporting practices.

 

Sure, that all seems fine in broad strokes. The devil's in the details.

[Ibn Sina]

@winterknight I have watched a few of your youtube videos, you seem very articulate , sharp and you seem quite authentic too.

You share a belief that is shared by other prominent monks like Alan Wallace, that scientists haven't solved the problem about- how does the firing of neurons, give rise to consciousness, , how does the firing of  neurons make you see that particular rose? Where is the rose present in the neurons, there's just electricity, nothing else. So that means there seems to be an underlying reality of the 'self' which is not influenced by neurons. So you hold the belief that there is a disconnection between the brain and our individual unique experience?

Then let me ask you, why does the leision in the brain, alters one's experience? 
You may claim you are enlightened, but a leision in your prefrontal cortex will completely change who you are,  you start become immoral, you lose your inhibitions, ability to learn.

Leision in your broca's area makes you unable to speak, leision in your wernicke's area makes it impossible for you to understand. Leision in temporal lobe gives you Kluver Bucy syndrome, you turn into a sex addict immediately. Leision in spinal cord gives you paralysis, loss of touch sensation, breath, and so on. And you might say, even if there is involuntary movement, loss of muscle tone, paralysis, immoral thoughts, urges, there is still that grain of awareness, well there are exact parts of the brain that gives rise to consciousness ( awareness). Any problems there and your consciousness which you say is  not influenced by brain matter, is lost.  

So, how do you account for that? Change in your brain matter brings changes to your personality. Matter is influencing mind.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Jkris]

@winterknight 

1.Self Enquiry

2.Witnessing

Whats the difference between the two ? Whats the significance of self enquiry over witnessing ?

3.Why insights happen very rarely ?

--------------------------------

Do Japa,breath watching,kundalini meditations etc really has any significant meaning purpose benefits ?

 

--------------------------------

@Aakash Aakash some bug your name keeps comming.

[winterknight]

49 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

@winterknight I have watched a few of your youtube videos, you seem very articulate , sharp and you seem quite authentic too.

You share a belief that is shared by other prominent monks like Alan Wallace, that scientists haven't solved the problem about- how does the firing of neurons, give rise to consciousness, , how does the firing of  neurons make you see that particular rose? Where is the rose present in the neurons, there's just electricity, nothing else. So that means there seems to be an underlying reality of the 'self' which is not influenced by neurons. So you hold the belief that there is a disconnection between the brain and our individual unique experience?

Then let me ask you, why does the leision in the brain, alters one's experience? 
You may claim you are enlightened, but a leision in your prefrontal cortex will completely change who you are,  you start become immoral, you lose your inhibitions, ability to learn.

Leision in your broca's area makes you unable to speak, leision in your wernicke's area makes it impossible for you to understand. Leision in temporal lobe gives you Kluver Bucy syndrome, you turn into a sex addict immediately. Leision in spinal cord gives you paralysis, loss of touch sensation, breath, and so on. And you might say, even if there is involuntary movement, loss of muscle tone, paralysis, immoral thoughts, urges, there is still that grain of awareness, well there are exact parts of the brain that gives rise to consciousness ( awareness). Any problems there and your consciousness which you say is  not influenced by brain matter, is lost.  

So, how do you account for that? Change in your brain matter brings changes to your personality. Matter is influencing mind.

Matter itself is a thought in the cosmic mind, that's all. So is the brain.

The cosmic mind has created a universe that appears to operate by certain laws, and among these is that brain states influence states of consciousness.

But you might compare the brain to a radio. Break the radio and the sound changes, but that doesn't mean the radio is the ultimate source of the music. No, the radio station is. 

And these issues have nothing to do with enlightenment. However many lesions one has it does not affect enlightenment in the slightest. But to understand why this is one must dispel ignorance.

30 minutes ago, Jkris said:

@winterknight 

1.Self Enquiry

2.Witnessing

Whats the difference between the two ? Whats the significance of self enquiry over witnessing ?

Witnessing is just a thought - the idea that "I am witnessing."

What does it mean to witness? What is this thing called witnessing? To investigate that question by trying to focus attention on the seeming witness... is self-inquiry.

Identifying with a purported witness is definitely an advance over identifying with the simple body, but it is not enough.

Quote

 

3.Why insights happen very rarely ?

 

They happen in proportion to the purity of one's mind and the intensity of one's desire for liberation (and these are connected). There are probably conflicting desires, identifications, and attachments that pull the mind away from the search... because there are doubts, or because psychological/emotional work has been done (this is why I recommend psychoanalysis so often, though that's not the only way). Without that work, the mind will be cloudy and insights will be difficult.

Quote

 

Do Japa,breath watching,kundalini meditations etc really has any significant meaning purpose benefits ?

 

For some people, they can help concentrate and quiet the mind, help prepare it for inquiry or surrender.