I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[winterknight]

23 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@winterknight

do most people normally do self-inquiry with their eyes open or closed? before this i was doing a neti neti style self-inquiry but then i realised the limitations of it if you don't know what to think is you next, its like a methodical approach. whilst this time, i just hold onto what i feel is I and just inquiring into where it is, what is it, and whom. the neti neti style i did with my eyes open and normal self-inquiry i do with my eyes closed. 

You need to be practicing eventually at all times, not just sitting down. Like when you are sitting, standing, talking, walking, cooking, working.

Again, read more of the scriptures. I feel you would be helped by that big-time.

[Aakash]

@winterknight  i think i underestimated how difficult this process actually is, thinking that one day ill find it and bang this whole journey would be over. but i think i myself need to learn more about this method itself , so i will certainly take you up on that offer. 

[Preetom]

9 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@Preetom yup i right until the moment i can't and that would be enlightenment itself, i have a problem of needing to double check against someone elses experience all the time , so i don't get stuck in a ditch and have to spend 2 years lost in a delusion. 

I'll leave you something from Maharaj. I've read it so many times, it is fairly in my memory now

''The seeker is he, who is in search of himself. Leave all questions except one.  Who am I? After all, the only thing you are sure of, is that you are. No one can legitimately deny their own existence.

In order to know what you are, you first have to know what you are not. Clearly see everything you are not. Body, mind, memory, time, space anything perceivable or conceivable, is not you. The very act of perception shows you that you are not what you perceive.

The sooner you realize that you cannot be described in any mind language whatsoever, the sooner you'll come to the end of your search''

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Preetom

[Aakash]

@Preetom interesting , i like it. i guess its just better to stop it lol. thanks 

[Preetom]

@winterknight

Thanks a lot for the elaborate answer. It reminds me something I read in a conversation with Maharshi. A seeker was casually telling if he could self-realize within few days by doing constant self-inquiry in meditative sitting. Maharshi replied, ''Why don't you try? Your very tendencies won't let you''

So at this point, the question comes how did you know that you were ready to do intense self-inquiry after 19 years? Where did that conviction come from? Why not 5-10 years ago or later?

Is there a sign where I can know it's time for me to dive deep into inquiry and leaving all else?

Edited April 5, 2019 by Preetom

[SoonHei]

@Preetom lovely posts here too bro

@@Aakash  i have seen your posts and way and it seems like very similar to mine

i also tend to write and state understanding of ultimately reality in metaphors and anaologies. one more deeper than the last etc etc

 

but one thing recently which struck me was this

what is the sound of 1 hand clapping?

 

the answer to this really is that it is a paradox. there is no sound to 1 hand clapping. so searching for an answer implies you have yet not understood it is impossible

 

same with self inquiry. any time you find yourself in another mind loop or concept just come to see it is you trying to understand your ultimate nature with the mind. which is impossible. so simply give up . even if that concept remains unsolved. doesnt matter. the concept /qestion is a paradox.

 

side note. while explaning this analogy to a random (unspirtual / regular) friend. about what is sound of 1 hand clapping. he told me (or almost physically showed me)  that the sound of 1 hand clapping is a SLAP TO THE FACE 

LOL

 

[winterknight]

10 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@winterknight

Thanks a lot for the elaborate answer. It reminds me something I read in a conversation with Maharshi. A seeker was casually telling if he could self-realize withing few days by doing constant self-inquiry in meditative sitting. Maharshi replied, ''Why don't you try? Your very tendencies won't let you''

So at this point, the question comes how did you know that you were ready to do intense self-inquiry after 19 years? Where did that conviction come from? Why not 5-10 years ago or later?

Is there a sign where I can know it's time for me to dive deep into inquiry and leaving all else?

Well for me I simply didn't understand self-inquiry at first. My first understanding of Vedanta was kind of a weird variant of "jnana yoga" -- trying to digest and act on a certain understanding of the Self. My understanding of jnana yoga has evolved dramatically since then.

Then when I encountered Maharshi's self-inquiry, like I said, I only half-understood.

Then I had to go through all these psychological issues to figure out what was meant, in a way, by all this stuff, and why I was having difficulty applying it in my own life.

Years later, I suddenly somehow re-encountered Maharshi in a new context and understood him. You could call this grace, this re-encounter. I had never quite lost sight of him, but he suddenly became luminous in my life for -- some odd reason.

Now, I would say, please immediately try self-inquiry and keep with it (I know you already have; I'm speaking to anyone else reading this). There's no issue of waiting to do it if you comprehend it and are drawn to it. If I had understood it properly earlier I would have done it earlier.

But as you try it, you may seem to encounter various obstacles that are individual to you. Then, depending on your own temperament and state, you'll deal with them in the way that's appropriate. Ideally, the obstacles will be few, and the way you'll deal with them will simply be to persist with the inquiry. But that or may not be the case.

Edited April 5, 2019 by winterknight

[Preetom]

 

14 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Now, I would say, please immediately try self-inquiry and keep with it (I know you already have; I'm speaking to anyone else reading this). There's no issue of waiting to do it if you comprehend it and are drawn to it. If I had understood it properly earlier I would have done it earlier.

But as you try it, you may seem to encounter various obstacles that are individual to you. Then, depending on your own temperament and state, you'll deal with them in the way that's appropriate. Ideally, the obstacles will be few, and the way you'll deal with them will simply be to persist with the inquiry. But that or may not be the case.

Thanks for the answer. Now it makes sense. So you were finally able to persist without having major personality puzzle issues. And that was the case because you integrated the personality for 19 years, so it didn't bothered that much or come as a big obstacle.

Now I have something to say regarding the practice.

Quote

Yes, it is difficult. You cannot "hold" the I, really. You are inquiring into the I feeling, dismissing what is an object (body, mind, etc.) if you find yourself feeling the I there. So you are chasing that feeling. If you feel like you are holding something, it is an object, not the I. Notice you are holding it and drop it.

This is where I am at right now. I can see that the so called holding 'I' or being aware of awareness was actually focusing on some very subtle, hard to detect sensations. Or at the very least, it was holding on to the thought that 'I am aware or I am present''

So that means, self-inquiry won't necessarily be a practice where the mind is completely calm and quiet, right? Because there is always movement going on and the simultaneous recognitions of what the 'I' is not. 

Right now it feels like a repeated moment to moment spark for me. The I feeling is there, but it is not a phenomena. It almost feels like an endless freefall with nothing to grab on to. From time to time, the tendency to grab the I collapses by itself. Usually by this time, I'd be distracted by thoughts. So should I keep on repeating the technique over and over again?

[winterknight]

9 minutes ago, Preetom said:

This is where I am at right now. I can see that the so called holding 'I' or being aware of awareness was actually focusing on some very subtle, hard to detect sensations. Or at the very least, it was holding on to the thought that 'I am aware or I am present''

Yup.
 

Quote

So that means, self-inquiry won't necessarily be a practice where the mind is completely calm and quiet, right? Because there is always movement going on and the simultaneous recognitions of what the 'I' is not. 

Right now it feels like a repeated moment to moment spark for me. The I feeling is there, but it is not a phenomena. It almost feels like an endless freefall with nothing to grab on to. From time to time, the tendency to grab the I collapses by itself. Usually by this time, I'd be distracted by thoughts. So should I keep on repeating the technique over and over again?

Yes, self-inquiry will not necessarily be calm and quiet. (Actually, you are always calm and quiet... to notice that is part of self-inquiry... but it will not necessarily always seem that way because sometimes that will fall out of your attention).

And yes, keep repeating. Try to really look -- because in a way it is extremely obvious what the I is, and in a way it's completely mysterious. Words can only go so far. This is a bit of a koan: what are you looking for? No one can answer that but you. You have to open yourself up to it. It will happen automatically when the resistances in your mind are battered through the effort of concentration and inquiry.

The mind will calm itself when through this straining to look you have a glimpse of reality -- it may have already happened. It will be like a sudden opening in the clouds. When for a moment you enter a state of effortless flow and the burdens are relaxed -- it will be obvious, undeniable when this happens -- that's a glimpse. Stay there, but if you fall away, then repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Oh, and, as I've been recommending to others, steep yourself in the scriptures. Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, the Concise Yoga Vasistha, the Ashtavakra Gita and the Ribhu Gita are all great.

I read TSRM at least twice if not three times (all 700 pages) that last year.

Edited April 5, 2019 by winterknight

[Preetom]

10 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Yup.
 

Yes, keep repeating. Try to really look -- because in a way it is extremely obvious what the I is, and in a way it's completely mysterious. Words can only go so far. This is a bit of a koan: what are you looking for? No one can answer that but you. You have to open yourself up to it. It will happen automatically.

The mind will calm itself when through this looking you have a glimpse of reality -- it may have already happened. When for a moment you enter a state of effortless flow and the burdens are relaxed -- it will be obvious, undeniable when this happens -- that's a glimpse. Stay there, but if you fall away, then repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Oh, and, as I've been recommending to others, steep yourself in the scriptures. Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, the Concise Yoga Vasistha, the Ashtavakra Gita and the Ribhu Gita are all great.

Thanks for your responses. I'll keep at it. And I think I've read my fair share of scriptures including books on the conversation with Maharshi. Still read them everyday for inspiration and fine tuning the necessary ideas about the practice and the metaphysics involved in it.

I must also admit your posts and book have inspired me to take it seriously as well. So thanks for everything

[winterknight]

4 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Thanks for your responses. I'll keep at it. And I think I've read my fair share of scriptures including books on the conversation with Maharshi. Still read them everyday for inspiration and fine tuning the necessary ideas about the practice and the metaphysics involved in it.

I must also admit your posts and book have inspired me to take it seriously as well. So thanks for everything

You're very welcome. It's great that you have read & are reading the scriptures. Will say that I feel that reading the scriptures is not entirely just about inspiration or ideas about practice but also that repeated ingestion of the words can clear away obstacles you didn't even know you had. It's like having satsang with a great sage. Their presence comes through the words.

Edited April 5, 2019 by winterknight

[Preetom]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

You're very welcome. It's great that you have read & are reading the scriptures. Will say that I feel that reading the scriptures is not entirely just about inspiration or ideas about practice but also that repeated ingestion of the words can clear away obstacles you didn't even know you had. It's like having satsang with a great sage.

Indeed. Repeated reading and absorption does feel like deep self inquiry itself from time to time.

There is a potency in the words spoken by a Jnani which works its magic when the time is right.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Preetom

[robdl]

1 hour ago, winterknight said:

Oh, and, as I've been recommending to others, steep yourself in the scriptures. Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, the Concise Yoga Vasistha, the Ashtavakra Gita and the Ribhu Gita are all great.

I read TSRM at least twice if not three times (all 700 pages) that last year.

 Be As You Are (edited by David Godman) might be the best book I've seen that breaks down self-inquiry in a detailed and understandable way.

[Preetom]

3 minutes ago, robdl said:

 Be As You Are (edited by David Godman) might be the best book I've seen that breaks down self-inquiry in a detailed and understandable way.

Yes that is a great book. I also like Michael James Happiness and the art of being which explains Maharshi's teachings in a very clear way

[winterknight]

8 minutes ago, robdl said:

 Be As You Are (edited by David Godman) might be the best book I've seen that breaks down self-inquiry in a detailed and understandable way.

It's basically just a selection of excerpts from Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, which is much more comprehensive. And Godman's interpretations are shaky, I sometimes think.

[winterknight]

7 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Yes that is a great book. I also like Michael James Happiness and the art of being which explains Maharshi's teachings in a very clear way

I'm not a fan of Michael James. Can't quite remember why now, but I remember reading some of his interpretations of Maharshi and disliked them.

[Preetom]

2 hours ago, winterknight said:

I'm not a fan of Michael James. Can't quite remember why now, but I remember reading some of his interpretations of Maharshi and disliked them.

Maybe you could look into it again once more. I have to admit I've got a good understanding of Maharshi's teachings due to Michael James and Sri Sadhu Om's interpretations.

2 hours ago, winterknight said:

It's basically just a selection of excerpts from Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, which is much more comprehensive. And Godman's interpretations are shaky, I sometimes think.

On the contrary, Michael James claims that Talks with Maharshi can easily confuse people. As Maharshi always replied based on the level of of the seeker, it sounds contradictory when it is compiled in such a big book. 

Plus the usual translator Murugunar(not the Enlightened Sri Murugunar) used to heavily interpret things from his devotional viewpoints in a biased manner.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Preetom

[Preetom]

2 hours ago, winterknight said:

I read TSRM at least twice if not three times (all 700 pages) that last year.

Wow your life must have been a standstill in that year. It was totally worth it though 

[winterknight]

2 hours ago, Preetom said:

Maybe you could look into again once more. I have to admit I've got a good understanding of Maharshi's teachings due to Michael James and Sri Sadhu Om's interpretations.

On the contrary, Michael James claims that Talks with Maharshi can easily confuse people. As Maharshi always replied based on the level of of the seeker, it sounds contradictory when it is compiled in such a big book. 

Plus the usual translator Murugunar(not the Enlightened Sri Murugunar) used to heavily interpret things from his devotional viewpoints in a biased manner.

See, this right there seems a good reason not to put too much faith in Michael James. I assure you TSRM is the real deal, and reading it over and over is a wonderful sadhana. It can be confusing for beginners, but that is a healthy confusion. It will resolve itself.

I just looked again at little pieces of MJ's book and blog... and his writing is ponderous, heavy, and indirect. I do not get the sense of an independent jnani who is giving his own vision. I can't find exactly what I disagreed with before, but I'm not really motivated to wade through his sea of words to find it.

But if you have a short piece of his, either in his book or blog, that you think illustrates his greatest clarity and the most useful thing he says -- I would be happy to take a look. 

Edited April 5, 2019 by winterknight

[Preetom]

5 minutes ago, winterknight said:

See, this right there seems a good reason not to put too much faith in Michael James. I assure you TSRM is the real deal, and reading it over and over is a wonderful sadhana. It can be confusing for beginners, but that is a healthy confusion. It will resolve itself.

I'll definitely start reading TSRM then. Thanks

5 minutes ago, winterknight said:

I just looked again at little pieces of MJ's book and blog... and his writing is ponderous, heavy, and indirect. I do not get the sense of an independent jnani who is giving his own vision. 

I agree with you on this one. He is heavily concerned with the Tamil translations in his writings(and lectures), he goes on translating stuff frequently which I personally found distracting and redundant.

And about being independent jnani, he never claims to be one. He always credits Maharshi for whatever knowledge he has gathered and whatever he has done in this non-duality business. This is a common theme with almost all the direct students of Maharshi. They only acknowledge one Guru and that's Maharshi himself. Michael James basically sees himself as an interpreter of the essence of Maharshi's teachings in English Language. 

10 minutes ago, winterknight said:

But if you have a short piece of his, either in his book or blog, that you think illustrates his greatest clarity and the most useful thing he says -- I would be happy to take a look. 

I'd suggest you read the first 8.5 pages of the introduction of his book ''Happiness and the art of being''. It's a giant book, the introduction itself being over 50 pages long. But just read the 1st 7-8 pages. I found it explaining almost all the core concepts of non duality and the practice as well in a precise manner. And also would be happy to hear your review on the short read. I'm linking the book.
http://www.happinessofbeing.com/Happiness_and_the_Art_of_Being.pdf