I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[EmptinessDncing]

5 hours ago, winterknight said:

Not that hackneyed Jeff Foster video again! Anything but that 

YOU GOTTA ADMIT IT'S PRETTY FUNNY.  WHO DOESN'T WANNA SMACK THAT DUDE UPSIDE THE HEAD.  IT WILL PROBABLY BE AROUND ANOTHER 10 YEARS.

I disagree that enlightenment is still being trapped in the dream but realizing it's a dream. That is most certainly not the consequence of self-realization. True self-realization is nothing to be pitied. Quite the opposite.

WELL OF COURSE YOU WOULD SAY THAT.  A USED CAR SALESMAN AINT GOING TO TELL YOU IT'S A LEMON.  IT'S ONLY A HALF A LEMON ANYWAY.  IT HAS ITS PRO'S AND CONS, BUT NO DIFFERENT TO THE CAR YOU HAD BEFORE.  IT'S THE SAME ROAD.

YOU ARE DREAMING YOU'RE ENLIGHTENED, THERE IS NO TWO BUTS ABOUT IT.  IF IT IS A DREAM, YOU ARE DREAMING THE DREAM.  THERE IS NO ENLIGHTENMENT, JUST A DREAM.  BUT THAT'S ENLIGHTENMENT. GAH!

As far as why I teach, there is no why. I mean I could tell a story of why, but it wouldn't be true. This body/mind is compelled to do so by whatever force  controls the universe.  PLEASE, INDULGE ME. 

@PreetomTruth is a hostile place, not a warm and fuzzy one. Neo didn't wake up to cotton-candy.  The truth is, however, it stops mattering.  

My reason for writing is it's fun.  What else to do?  Why is it fun?  What winternight said.  We both hold a truth and feel compelled to share it.

Enlightened or not, we're all just sailing around in the dream looking for answers that don't exist because we have the wrong questions.  The enlightenment game is just the elusive carrot keeping you in hope that one day life will be better.  That's a child's dream.  Enlightenment is realising there never was a carrot, just infinite bullshit.  That appears hostile when you're trapped in fantasy land.  Wake up!

You can humour me and maybe learn something, or reject it for the carrot, whatever.  That's why people don't wake up, they don't want to.

[Dumb Enlightened]

9 hours ago, EmptinessDncing said:

There is no enlightenment, because there is no waking up from the dream, just realising it's a dream and being stuck in it.  But you're right, it doesn't choose.  I didn't choose that, it felt conspired and an inevitability.  A culmination of events holding an illusion of choice.  I'm doing that ping pong thing people do before it abides.  If I had a choice I'd not choose this actually.

 

But this dream is fucking amazing, isn't it ? That's the purpose of everything, to experience, to play, why would one want to leave it ?, there's no where to go

If you don't realize the magnificence of this dream you're still asleep,

[winterknight]

3 hours ago, EmptinessDncing said:

WELL OF COURSE YOU WOULD SAY THAT.  A USED CAR SALESMAN AINT GOING TO TELL YOU IT'S A LEMON.  IT'S ONLY A HALF A LEMON ANYWAY.  IT HAS ITS PRO'S AND CONS, BUT NO DIFFERENT TO THE CAR YOU HAD BEFORE.  IT'S THE SAME ROAD.

YOU ARE DREAMING YOU'RE ENLIGHTENED, THERE IS NO TWO BUTS ABOUT IT.  IF IT IS A DREAM, YOU ARE DREAMING THE DREAM.  THERE IS NO ENLIGHTENMENT, JUST A DREAM.  BUT THAT'S ENLIGHTENMENT. GAH!

Either there is a dream and there is enlightenment, or there is no dream and no enlightenment. Can't have it both ways. There are no two buts about it.

Quote

As far as why I teach, there is no why. I mean I could tell a story of why, but it wouldn't be true. This body/mind is compelled to do so by whatever force  controls the universe.  PLEASE, INDULGE ME. 

It feels like something I enjoy doing, that I am qualified to do, and that I consider a sacred contribution.

Edited March 25, 2019 by winterknight

[Applejuice]

@winterknight Who are you

[EmptinessDncing]

On 3/14/2019 at 5:16 PM, winterknight said:

  4 hours ago, EmptinessDncing said:

WELL OF COURSE YOU WOULD SAY THAT.  A USED CAR SALESMAN AINT GOING TO TELL YOU IT'S A LEMON.  IT'S ONLY A HALF A LEMON ANYWAY.  IT HAS ITS PRO'S AND CONS, BUT NO DIFFERENT TO THE CAR YOU HAD BEFORE.  IT'S THE SAME ROAD.

YOU ARE DREAMING YOU'RE ENLIGHTENED, THERE IS NO TWO BUTS ABOUT IT.  IF IT IS A DREAM, YOU ARE DREAMING THE DREAM.  THERE IS NO ENLIGHTENMENT, JUST A DREAM.  BUT THAT'S ENLIGHTENMENT. GAH!

Either there is a dream and there is enlightenment, or there is no dream and no enlightenment. Can't have it both ways. There are no two buts about it.

You say yourself that there is a dream and you claim enlightenment, so this is your reality.  I say if it is a dream, it is a dream.  You realise you have been dreaming, and you can call that enlightenment or potato cake, who cares.  But you can't stop dreaming, all you can do is be aware that you are.  It's like being aware that you are lucid dreaming.  You just know you're dreaming.  And like lucid dreaming it takes practice to not forget you're dreaming.

The differentiation between my alseep and awake states have become vague. (as in litterally going to bed)

This is a phase, like any other.  One not to ignore because it happens.  This is what it is like to awaken.  To say fuck this shit some days, and the next be utterly awestruck at the beauty of the person walking in front of your car that was entirely unspecial (today).  My journey is very, very normal. 

There is no 'it'.  Just a journey of learning there is no 'it' and to come back full circle and apprecite life as it is.  It is shocking to realise this.  Spiritual people invest a lot of time and effort in it only to feel like it was all some sort of conspiracy.  And I don't expect people to call off the chase just because there is no fox, you have to look in all the hiding places yourself to really believe it.

Then you have to call off the calling off.  I haven't let go of that yet.  If I had, I wouldn't be writing here.

When I say 'yourself' I'm not referring to you, winternight.  If you thought there was an 'it' you wouldn't be qualified to teach, you'd be delusional.  You know there isn't.

Sorry, I'll stop writing now, it's probably overstepping the line.  Have a nice dream ; )

[winterknight]

19 minutes ago, EmptinessDncing said:

You say yourself that there is a dream and you claim enlightenment, so this is your reality.  I say if it is a dream, it is a dream.  You realise you have been dreaming, and you can call that enlightenment or potato cake, who cares.  But you can't stop dreaming, all you can do is be aware that you are.  It's like being aware that you are lucid dreaming.  You just know you're dreaming.  And like lucid dreaming it takes practice to not forget you're dreaming.

It's not like lucid dreaming, though. It is the understanding not that you are lucid dreaming, but that there is no such thing as the dream.

[Dantas]

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

[winterknight]

On 3/24/2019 at 10:47 PM, Dantas said:

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

I don't know, what is it? 

[Carl-Richard]

Does sex feel better before or after enlightenment? Also how often do you cry? If you stub your toe, does it hurt? Does that pain = suffering? If so, do you suffer?

[thesmileyone]

My question is how do you know you are enlightened?

How do you know what enlightened even is?

 

In all your posts you have this vibe of nondual nondoership ie there "is no you" so how can you make the statement "I am enlightened" when living from the view that "I" does not exist?

[winterknight]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Does sex feel better before or after enlightenment? Also how often do you cry? If you stub your toe, does it hurt? Does that pain = suffering? If so, do you suffer?

I don't really answer questions about "my" experience because the answers are always misleading.

1 hour ago, thesmileyone said:

My question is how do you know you are enlightened?

How do you know what enlightened even is?

 

In all your posts you have this vibe of nondual nondoership ie there "is no you" so how can you make the statement "I am enlightened" when living from the view that "I" does not exist?

It's a playful statement & a pointer to something which cannot be stated accurately in words one way or the other.

[Preetom]

@winterknight

Can you doubt everything else except for your enlightenment?

Or are you open to doubt about your enlightenment as well?

[winterknight]

32 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@winterknight

Can you doubt everything else except for your enlightenment?

Or are you open to doubt about your enlightenment as well?

Anything which can be stated in words -- which is therefore in thought -- is subject to doubt. Enlightenment is not actually a thing describable that way.

Edited March 26, 2019 by winterknight

[Preetom]

6 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Anything which can be stated in words -- which is therefore in thought -- is subject to doubt. Enlightenment is not actually a thing describable that way.

How about a direct perception that is happening right now? Like a sensation in the chest.

I feel that even that is open to doubt because 'I' am aware of that sensation but that sensation is not aware of 'I'. 

So in other words, that sensation needs 'I' to verify it's existence. It cannot verify it's own existence. it doesn't have it's own existence-consciousness. Is this what is meant when it is said that the world doesn't exist even when you perceive it in the present moment?

Edited March 26, 2019 by Preetom

[LastThursday]

@winterknight does anything that is not in your direct experience exist? Is direct experience continuous or discontinuous? By direct experience I mean 'conciously aware of' or 'reality'.

[winterknight]

28 minutes ago, Preetom said:

How about a direct perception that is happening right now? Like a sensation in the chest.

I feel that even that is open to doubt because 'I' am aware of that sensation but that sensation is not aware of 'I'. 

So in other words, that sensation needs 'I' to verify it's existence. It cannot verify it's own existence. it doesn't have it's own existence-consciousness. Is this what is meant when it is said that the world doesn't exist even when you perceive it in the present moment?

Not quite. It's that language is based on the idea of the I, which is incoherent. So all statements in language are ultimately false, too. It's as if every sentence started with "If 2+2 = zebra... " But that is not the case.

Anyway, there is of course no use trying to fully understand this with words 

17 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

@winterknight does anything that is not in your direct experience exist? Is direct experience continuous or discontinuous? By direct experience I mean 'conciously aware of' or 'reality'.

I don't answer questions about my experience because the answers are misleading & unhelpful. If you have questions about your path, though, happy to answer.

Edited March 26, 2019 by winterknight

[Preetom]

21 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Not quite. It's that language is based on the idea of the I, which is incoherent. So all statements in language are ultimately false, too. It's like if if every sentence started with "If 2+2 = zebra... " But that is not the case.

Anyway, there is of course no use trying to fully understand this with words 

 

So what it is that knows the sensation in the chest?

Btw Ramana Maharshi treated all objective experience as 'thought'. In his vocab, the world is nothing but thoughts and it all hinges upon the root thought aka I-thought aka the ego. So the sensation in the chest, even though it is experienced right now, it is nothing but thought. How do you explain this view?

Edited March 26, 2019 by Preetom

[purerogue]

8 minutes ago, winterknight said:

I don't answer questions about my experience because the answers are misleading & unhelpful. If you have questions about your path, though, happy to answer.

I  will ask question so people do not become infuriated as I did every time you said this.

Why is your direct experience misleading & unhelpful?

[winterknight]

7 minutes ago, Preetom said:

So what it is that knows the sensation in the chest?

Btw Ramana Maharshi treated all objective experience as 'thought'. In his vocab, the world is nothing but thoughts and it all hinges upon the root thought aka I-thought aka the ego. So the sensation in the chest, even thought it is experienced right now, is nothing but thought. How do you explain this view?

Actually, the very idea of a sensation in the chest is wrong. Still, it's a necessary idea for seekers.

"Seek that which knows the sensation of the chest." <-- that's an instruction for seekers

In truth both the knower of that sensation and the sensation itself are false ideas.

Ramana Maharshi -- and the Vedanta tradition generally -- teach different concepts depending on to whom they're speaking and the context.

5 minutes ago, purerogue said:

I  will ask question so people do not become infuriated as I did every time you said this.

Why is your direct experience misleading & unhelpful?

Because the very question hinges on incorrect assumptions -- that, for example, there is a "my" experience to talk about. But there is no "my" experience to talk about, nor is there NOT a "my" experience to talk about.

So I get reduced into silence if I try to answer these questions.

Edited March 26, 2019 by winterknight

[Joker_Theory]

@winterknight

I had an experience i would like your opinion on. I was walking around in my home and then i got the idea that my sight, sounds, feeling, thoughts... are actually inside my head and so it's like i the body which i see, feel... is inside my head so it's like i live in or my entire experiences and"objects" are within my head so i was like wowwww i am living inside my mind. Thought that it's a strange loop like consciousness inside consciousness or something.

I felt like i was on a higher consciousness and so it made sense but now in normal consciousness it feels stupid.

Is there a world outside my head/mind? If no why am i the body walking around in space?