Posted March 14, 2019 4 hours ago, EmptinessDncing said: I hope you get that my argumentativeness is trying to get the difference between our two states. Absolutely. Quote Yes, the woman in the movie forgets shit. It's just a movie. She pisses off other people that still thinks the movie is real. She is now coming back to the movie because other people in the movie don't think it's okay to forget their birthdays and apointments etc. This is the key point: does the woman in the movie have the choice to "come back" to the movie? Is she the one who ever left? It is actually not that woman, is what I'm suggesting. That woman has never left the movie, can never leave the movie. There is no one who can leave the movie or come back to it because other people are being pissed off. Quote I don't actually care to be honest, it's not real. It's an effort to care. What I'm questioning is should it matter? It doesn't appear to, but when nearly everyone in my reality is saying it does... Who is the *I* who doesn't care? Is that really you? Quote Just to clarify, I consider 5D to be full immersion in no-thought land. Where it is harder to think than not. Thoughts create the sense of I. Yes, but again, there is a difference between this as a state you can choose or not choose and this as a fact over which there is no choice. The true 5D is the latter. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 4 hours ago, tecladocasio said: @winterknight Can you say that Being is beyond perception and the relative world? And how can the enlightened ones can know that the experience of animals are the “same” as theirs if animals have some degree of conceptual activity , or is It just especulation ? Because even if animals don't suffer like human beings do ,they still can't let them self free of conceptual activity ( self-survival ) . Being is both beyond perception & the relative world and in and through it. Enlightenment does not give you any special insight into animal experiences one way or the other. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 What if we're talking about the same thing with different language? What does it mean to choose? Who is choosing? The universe. Is there really a choice? Yes and No. No because what we perceive to be choice would have happened anyway, regardless of what perception we have around the chooser. Ultimately there is noone choosing Nothing. And yes, because the movie is playing. In the movie we learn. The movie (relative) is not separate from who I am (absolute). If we separate them there is duality again. There is a choice to have eggs or cornflakes, and consequences apply. Whether we perceive the choice to be illusiory is irrelevant. There is choosing to think, or choosing not to, and consequences apply. In choosing not to today, there was realisation that ego had taken over creating undesirable consequences, and hence motivation to remain still again. It is the opinion of some that true mastery is making that choice. To dial up different states of consciousness. This is a form of choice. I'm not claiming to be a master, I'm just a rookie, but there is acknowledgment of responsibility for choices. It is far too easy, once awakened, to spiritually bypass responsibility with 'there was no-one here doing it'. Today I had payments cut off because I forgot to do something. When I called the guy, memory was so vacant I couldn't remember the three questions I had to ask. It just fails to arise. Yesterday when in my head I could remember all sorts. I'm screwed either way. Ego vs dysfunctionality. Choice! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 @winterknight Thanks allot!!! "Your the left eye and i am the right would it not be madness to fight, WE COME ONE." - Faithless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, EmptinessDncing said: What if we're talking about the same thing with different language?What does it mean to choose? Who is choosing? The universe. Is there really a choice? Yes and No. No because what we perceive to be choice would have happened anyway, regardless of what perception we have around the chooser. Ultimately there is noone choosing Nothing. And yes, because the movie is playing. Not "and yes." Merely because the movie is playing does not mean there is any choice or chooser. Quote In the movie we learn. The movie (relative) is not separate from who I am (absolute). There is no separation because there is no relative world (but this is not merely an idea; this has to be directly understood), not because there are these two things called relative and absolute that are not separate. Quote If we separate them there is duality again. There is a choice to have eggs or cornflakes, and consequences apply. Eggs or cornflakes are eaten, but there is no one choosing between them. Quote Whether we perceive the choice to be illusiory is irrelevant. There is choosing to think, or choosing not to, and consequences apply. No, there is not. There is thinking or not thinking, but no choice. Quote In choosing not to today, there was realisation that ego had taken over creating undesirable consequences, and hence motivation to remain still again. Ego "had taken over" what? The very idea is itself an egoic picture of things. Quote It is the opinion of some that true mastery is making that choice. To dial up different states of consciousness. This is a form of choice. I'm not claiming to be a master, I'm just a rookie, but there is acknowledgment of responsibility for choices. Again, there's no one dialing up anything. Quote It is far too easy, once awakened, to spiritually bypass responsibility with 'there was no-one here doing it'. It is far easier to escape the real truth with ideas of 'integration' between spirit and world. Quote Today I had payments cut off because I forgot to do something. When I called the guy, memory was so vacant I couldn't remember the three questions I had to ask. It just fails to arise. Yesterday when in my head I could remember all sorts. Perhaps you would have forgotten regardless. Quote I'm screwed either way. Ego vs dysfunctionality. Choice! The I that can be "screwed" is not the true I. Edited March 14, 2019 by winterknight Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 How would you define spirit and soul. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 @winterknight What do you exactly mean when you say, "I am enlightened"? ''Not this... Not this... PLEASE...Not this...'' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Amber said: How would you define spirit and soul. It is what is when you inquire look deeply into who you are. I could call it pure being, being-consciousness-bliss, that which is beyond all dualities. There are many words for it, but all of them are ultimately inaccurate. 13 minutes ago, Preetom said: @winterknight What do you exactly mean when you say, "I am enlightened"? What exactly do you mean by that question? There are many things I could say in response: it's a koan, which, if you reflect on it, will lead you to enlightenment; it's meaningless, because all language is meaningless; it means there is knowledge here for those who seek it; that this mind no longer considers itself to be a separate entity; that I don't exist; that all of us are enlightened and therefore so am I. All of them and none of them are true. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 36 minutes ago, winterknight said: What exactly do you mean by that question? There are many things I could say in response: it's a koan, which, if you reflect on it, will lead you to enlightenment; it's meaningless, because all language is meaningless; it means there is knowledge here for those who seek it; that this mind no longer considers itself to be a separate entity; that I don't exist; that all of us are enlightened and therefore so am I. All of them and none of them are true. So it's all in the eye of the beholder? ''Not this... Not this... PLEASE...Not this...'' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Preetom said: So it's all in the eye of the beholder? The phrase "I am enlightened," like all language, but more so than almost all other statements, is contextual. There is a reality being referred to, but it cannot be accurately put into language. Even the words "I am enlightened" are paradoxical. So if I were to explain it, it would depend on the purpose for which I was explaining it. For example, if I were giving a basic theoretical background to a seeker, I could say that there is a "veil" covering the Self -- the veil of ignorance -- and that enlightenment is the destruction of this veil. But that's really not quite accurate, because there really is no veil; the veil is just the idea of the veil; and there is not even that idea, actually... But it's useful enough for a seeker to keep that structure in mind, even though it's not quite true, because that is helpful for the search. Edited March 14, 2019 by winterknight Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 38 minutes ago, winterknight said: The phrase "I am enlightened," like all language, but more so than almost all other statements, is contextual. There is a reality being referred to, but it cannot be accurately put into language. Even the words "I am enlightened" are paradoxical. So if I were to explain it, it would depend on the purpose for which I was explaining it. For example, if I were giving a basic theoretical background to a seeker, I could say that there is a "veil" covering the Self -- the veil of ignorance -- and that enlightenment is the destruction of this veil. But that's really not quite accurate, because there really is no veil; the veil is just the idea of the veil; and there is not even that idea, actually... But it's useful enough for a seeker to keep that structure in mind, even though it's not quite true, because that is helpful for the search. Okay great thanks for elaborating. But does that statement have any significance to yourself from a personal POV? If so what is that? ''Not this... Not this... PLEASE...Not this...'' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, winterknight said: It is what is when you inquire look deeply into who you are. I could call it pure being, being-consciousness-bliss, that which is beyond all dualities. There are many words for it, but all of them are ultimately inaccurate. What I meant - the difference between spirit and soul. It's not one and the same thing for me. Spirit is like Shekhinah, dwelling of the divine, or entering of the divine into the body, it gives life and aliveness and life becomes fresh, new, close, it gives soul to soul contact...soul is something completely different. Some people may have a soul, but are dead inside, no spirit. Edited March 14, 2019 by Amber grammar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Preetom said: Okay great thanks for elaborating. But does that statement have any significance to yourself from a personal POV? If so what is that? Whatever significance it has cannot be spoken. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 Those lips are more titghtened than a colombian politician ? God is love Whoever lives in love lives in God And God in them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Amber said: What I meant - the difference between spirit and soul. It's not one and the same for me. Spirit is like Shekhinah, dwelling of the divine, or entering of the divine into the body, it gives life and aliveness and life becomes fresh, new, close, it gives soul to soul contact...soul is something completely different. Some people may have a soul, but a dead inside, no spirit. That is interesting, but I don't really think about these in these ways. I am mainly concerned with the single truth. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 @winterknight From my POV only I am sentient. From your POV only you are sentient. All other knowledge is indirect or inference or open to doubt and alternate interpretations. What is the relationship between you and me? It seems POV is primary even over one's own existence knowledge because that shifts with the shifting of POV ''Not this... Not this... PLEASE...Not this...'' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Preetom said: @winterknight From my POV only I am sentient. From your POV only you are sentient. All other knowledge is indirect or inference or open to doubt and alternate interpretations. What is the relationship between you and me? It seems POV is primary even over one's own existence knowledge because that shifts with the shifting of POV You are assuming that there are really such things as POVs. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 14, 2019 34 minutes ago, winterknight said: You are assuming that there are really such things as POVs. Okay thanks. POV is an indirect knowledge ''Not this... Not this... PLEASE...Not this...'' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2019 @Preetom Quote Even the words "I am enlightened" are paradoxical. Not to hijack Winterknight's thread but this is a great clue. Let's put it this way for the sake of it: Being an "I" (which is to say having a POV) is a constriction of the Self in form of the mind AKA thoughts. So let go of the thoughts and you will automatically merge with the Self. This thought which we say is the cause of ignorance is the "I am the body" thought. All the projections out of the mind are either directly built on this notion, or distant derivatives of it. So reject it whenever it arises. Simply stop believing it, but be mindful not to replace it with another notion either (for example don't replace the "I am the body" thought with "I am my house's curtain" thought xD). This has an effect of quieting the mind. At that point, there is really nothing that you should be doing. Just stay in the quiet as much as you can, and keep going back to it (thankfully it is very pleasant). Eventually it will annihilate the sense of individuality within you. You will fully merge with the Self. Of course at that point it will be revealed that there has never been an "I" who ended up merging. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 15, 2019 @winterknight Thank you very much for your reply! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
