Posted March 10, 2019 On 8.03.2019 at 6:22 AM, winterknight said: And then a third twist: a quiet mind is in fact more "pleasurable." But that doesn’t matter to enlightenment, and anyhow there is no one there to make the 'decision' one way or the other about whether to pursue that or not. so you're saying that you can have the recognition with very disturbed mind ( example Ekhart Tolle) ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10, 2019 @winterknight You remind me of that Advita cartoon where the "enlightened" dude does nothing but talk about how no-one and nothing exists while the other chick is just appreciating a tree like a normal person (that we later discover is also enlightened). Do you want to be all mysterious and mystical or wake people up? I get what you're doing, but in my opinion it just creates more confusion. Appearing special creates separation. Personally I like to do normal as much as possible. Enlightenment is not a fixed state of consciousness. Sure you can't unknow the truth, but you sure can "half-ass enlightenment" to quote Leo. You can actually carry on like an egotistical dickhead "Zen-Devil"-style if you don't maintain practice. And you can be so deluded by your teachers that even after awakening it takes a while to realise that it isn't at all what you thought they were selling, and the new teachers can maintain the bullshit. Did you know that it is common for enlightened people to get depressed? How do you keep your ego in check? Or are you assuming you are beyond that requirement? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Mikael89 said: Haha, awesome ? You are seriously enlightened. I'm very jealous. You are one rare guy. Thank you for teaching us deluded people. (This is not sarcasm or anything like that, maybe it can sound like sarcasm to some people, I don't know. This is just currently my style.) Ha, you're welcome, but the truth is, of course, that you are just as enlightened. 7 hours ago, wavydude said: so you're saying that you can have the recognition with very disturbed mind ( example Ekhart Tolle) ? No, a peaceful mind matters in order to 'have' the recognition; it's 'afterwards' that I am talking about. 3 hours ago, EmptinessDncing said: @winterknight You remind me of that Advita cartoon where the "enlightened" dude does nothing but talk about how no-one and nothing exists while the other chick is just appreciating a tree like a normal person (that we later discover is also enlightened). When I'm in a thread where I'm teaching, I'm of course going to speak quite differently than in an everyday context. Quote Do you want to be all mysterious and mystical or wake people up? I get what you're doing, but in my opinion it just creates more confusion. Appearing special creates separation. Personally I like to do normal as much as possible. Depends on the context, the conversation, and a lot of other things. Sometimes "normal" is appropriate; sometimes "special" (actually, it is just the truth) is appropriate. Quote Enlightenment is not a fixed state of consciousness. Sure you can't unknow the truth, but you sure can "half-ass enlightenment" to quote Leo. You can actually carry on like an egotistical dickhead "Zen-Devil"-style if you don't maintain practice. And you can be so deluded by your teachers that even after awakening it takes a while to realise that it isn't at all what you thought they were selling, and the new teachers can maintain the bullshit. These statements are all true so far as they go, but they are all holding on to the diving board. What would happen if you let yourself fall into the water? There is a mode of life which is subtler and which totally evades the mind. Quote Did you know that it is common for enlightened people to get depressed? Their minds may appear to be depressed, but the "enlightened person" does not identify with that appearance. Quote How do you keep your ego in check? Or are you assuming you are beyond that requirement? If there is an ego, which there really isn't, then it is kept 'in check' by the automatic operation of knowledge, which fixes the mind irretrievably on its source. Then it's like a ball dropped and vibrating less and less over time, less and less and less. And in truth it cannot be said to be vibrating at all. Edited March 10, 2019 by winterknight Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10, 2019 On 2/23/2019 at 10:55 AM, winterknight said: You cannot ask someone who is enlightened -- well, you can, but it is not enough -- because it cannot be put in words. You cannot explain orgasm in words to someone who hasn't experienced orgasm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10, 2019 Is enlightenment like realizing the nature of the movie projected onto the screen? When my sleeping dream became lucid, it felt like enlightenment because the screen enlightened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10, 2019 49 minutes ago, CreamCat said: Is enlightenment like realizing the nature of the movie projected onto the screen? When my sleeping dream became lucid, it felt like enlightenment because the screen enlightened. It's like that but it's also not like that. Best not to get too attached to any metaphor. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10, 2019 26 minutes ago, winterknight said: It's like that but it's also not like that. Best not to get too attached to any metaphor. How so ? God is love Whoever lives in love lives in God And God in them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Shin said: How so ? Well, in the sense that biting into a crisp apple is like seeing a waterfall, but also isn't like that. Actually, in that sense, but also not Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10, 2019 16 minutes ago, winterknight said: Well, in the sense that biting into a crisp apple is like seeing a waterfall, but also isn't like that. Actually, in that sense, but also not Ok. Is that make sense to expect a paradigm shift out of my control rather than trying to understand ? God is love Whoever lives in love lives in God And God in them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10, 2019 26 minutes ago, Shin said: Ok. Is that make sense to expect a paradigm shift out of my control rather than trying to understand ? Well, actually, understanding can be good. You want an intellectual framework -- particularly if you're the kind of person who feels the deep need for that. How much of an understanding do you need? Enough that you feel motivated to look within. Enough that you are able to cope with life while you are looking within. So yes, do try to understand and ask questions. Read the scriptures, reflect on them, and try to comprehend. But -- then realize that it is indeed a paradigm shift out of your control. Realize that everything said in words is wrong, and that only your own inner concentration can give you real answers. So you have to be able to hold those two truths in mind: a) it is worth trying to understand to some extent b) a verbal understanding will never be accurate Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) Is enlightenment like being always on LSD? This is Leo Gura on LSD. Does enlightenment provide different experiences from the ones provided by 5-MeO-DMT and LSD? Weirdly, after having a lucid dream and learning some theories, Leo's enlightenment experience sounds logical. Edited March 11, 2019 by CreamCat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11, 2019 @winterknight @winterknight Are you aware of a Truth? Maybe one that is foremost and you hold high. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11, 2019 Hey @winterknight , thanks again for all the help I'm being really interested and liking the way of Davis Hawkins in his book "The pathway of surender", are you familliar with his work ? If yes what would be you're advices to optimize the progress on this path ? any traps to be careful of ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11, 2019 @win@winterknight From the fully realized "POV" which I consider to be yours/mooji/spira/tolle's ever-present experience which doesn't shift back and forth... From that POV, would the "awakened one" care or have preference over if IT were to shift between having the POV of a character who is awakened and rich vs a character who is awakened and poor, homeless and say partially blind. In other words, when that "which I am" is seen as already and eternally to be self realized would it care about what then unfolds out in my life? Like if there is hardship initially and then whatever or even hardship and a.continued downward spiral... As long as one is buddah, there is no more to be done? It is, as it is? Even with the character sitting down and doing nothing, and having the realization he is buddah, this is ok? (I am sure Bad for the character but ok for the self) Another question The realization that all is unfolding as it should really for.me personally brings me to just being ok with the situation, no matter how shitty things are... But the trick here is that this may allow things to get worse because you aren't doing anything about it. It's almost as if it's like the character really has to be okay with the present circumstances if it's the reflection of the understanding, however should also look back and see the repetitive negative behaviours leading the line of destruction of your life and what you should learn your responsibility as the ME and create and work for the work which will bring your life back to track. ♥ Love Is The Answer ♥ www.instagram.com/ev3rSunny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, CreamCat said: Is enlightenment like being always on LSD? No. 12 hours ago, Victor Mgazi said: @winterknight @winterknight Are you aware of a Truth? Maybe one that is foremost and you hold high. Yes. The Truth is that Truth cannot be an object of awareness. 4 hours ago, Jordan94 said: Hey @winterknight , thanks again for all the help I'm being really interested and liking the way of Davis Hawkins in his book "The pathway of surender", are you familliar with his work ? If yes what would be you're advices to optimize the progress on this path ? any traps to be careful of ? I don't know anything about Hawkins. My general advice is here. 44 minutes ago, SoonHei said: @win@winterknight From the fully realized "POV" which I consider to be yours/mooji/spira/tolle's ever-present experience which doesn't shift back and forth... From that POV, would the "awakened one" care or have preference over if IT were to shift between having the POV of a character who is awakened and rich vs a character who is awakened and poor, homeless and say partially blind. There may be the appearance of caring or having a preference, but that appearance is not identified with. That appearance is not a person. It is not a person caring or preferring. But the important thing is to find out yourself. These kinds of questions cannot be answered in words. The truth is so simple and will answer these kinds of questions in a way that my answers will never be able to. Quote Even with the character sitting down and doing nothing, and having the realization he is buddah, this is ok? The realization is that there is no character, so who is to call it ok or not? Quote The realization that all is unfolding as it should really for.me personally brings me to just being ok with the situation, no matter how shitty things are... But the trick here is that this may allow things to get worse because you aren't doing anything about it. It's almost as if it's like the character really has to be okay with the present circumstances if it's the reflection of the understanding, however should also look back and see the repetitive negative behaviours leading the line of destruction of your life and what you should learn your responsibility as the ME and create and work for the work which will bring your life back to track. Who is the one calling the situation better or worse? Are you that person? If you investigate the I feeling deeply, you will see that you are not either choosing to do or not to do, and then these questions will not bother you. These questions show that more investigation is required. Edited March 11, 2019 by winterknight Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11, 2019 @winterknight thank you. A pleasure as always. ♥ Love Is The Answer ♥ www.instagram.com/ev3rSunny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) @winterknight I wanna thank you a lot for emphasizing the science of desire and emotions so much in your teachings. Recently, it's been my experience that self-inquiry itself is the easiest and most joyous thing there is. My very being is Self-inquiry/Self-attention. But stomaching the 'Truth', that is the one and only hard thing. No wonder all desires, beliefs and emotions will have to align themselves to finally accept the Truth as it is. Edited March 11, 2019 by Preetom ''Not this... Not this... PLEASE...Not this...'' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) On 3/10/2019 at 0:35 PM, EmptinessDncing said: @winterknight Did you know that it is common for enlightened people to get depressed? Slander and then making such a claim, right, who told you that? I am not saying it's impossible, but the wise can surrender themselves beyond it, or may even appreciate it if it can help serve others in an empathic connection. Edited March 11, 2019 by AlwaysBeNice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11, 2019 @winterknight @winterknight 2 hours ago, winterknight said: The Truth is that Truth cannot be an object of awareness. Can you elaborate on this statement. Are you referring to truth in general or a specific truth when you say "Truth cannot be an object of awareness."? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Preetom said: @winterknight I wanna thank you a lot for emphasizing the science of desire and emotions so much in your teachings. Recently, it's been my experience that self-inquiry itself is the easiest and most joyous thing there is. My very being is Self-inquiry/Self-attention. But stomaching the 'Truth', that is the one and only hard thing. No wonder all desires, beliefs and emotions will have to align themselves to finally accept the Truth as it is. Yes indeed 3 hours ago, Victor Mgazi said: @winterknight @winterknight Can you elaborate on this statement. Are you referring to truth in general or a specific truth when you say "Truth cannot be an object of awareness."? I'm talking about enlightenment, the truth of who you really are -- follow these links if you want to learn more. Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
