I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[winterknight]

2 hours ago, ivory said:

@winterknight If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting to find this place where we feel we are located and to stay with that feeling. I feel like I'm located in the forehead. When I meditate on that feeling I notice that this feeling of "I" is an object. It's not the source. So then I become curious of the thing that's aware. But the source of awareness doesn't seem to have any location. That sense of "I" is the closest I seem to be able to get to the source. What are your thoughts?

Yeah, you're doing it exactly right. Do not stay with the forehead -- just like you did, you notice that the forehead, where you think the I is, is actually "an object...not the source."

So then that "sense of I" that "doesn't seem to have any location"... just keep holding that sense all the time, every waking moment. Keep trying and trying to hold it. If your attention slips, bring it back.

From time to time, you might notice that when you think you are holding that feeling, you are actually holding something else -- a thought or a feeling. If so, recognize that, let it go, and come back to that "sense of I." Hold it and hold it, and if anything else comes up, go back to that feeling. Eventually something will click -- you'll know it when it happens. Just do it for as long as necessary.

Then even when something clicks, you may seem to lose it again. So then repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

2 hours ago, BjarkeT said:

Why should you care about enlightenment in the first place? If it is to get rid of lifts problems as i have heard someone say it does why not just accept that life is difficult instead?

“Life is difficult. This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths. It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult-once we truly understand and accept it-then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.” scott peck

If it is for satisfaction why not just radical acceptance instead?

If its for truth can't you just use science like differential analysis and scientific method or ask someone who is already enlightened? 

Also what is enlightenment? 

You should care about enlightenment because it is the source of ultimate truth and peace. You don't need radical acceptance if you can have something better -- namely, perfect peace.

Scientific truth is contingent and uncertain and incomplete. Enlightenment is not like that. It is perfect. You cannot ask someone who is enlightened -- well, you can, but it is not enough -- because it cannot be put in words.

Lol, I like that you asked the most important question last. Enlightenment is simply clearing away the wrong belief (and the habits based on that belief) that you are individual person, someone who does things and who enjoys and suffers life. Enlightenment is the recognition that this is an illusion, and that what you are in fact is something which is perfect and complete and beyond words.

Edited February 23, 2019 by winterknight

[PetarKa]

@winterknight If God / The Truth (whatever you want to call "it") is absolutely infinite and formless, then why is this "dream" of life this particular form. Why must we be human? Why must we live on Earth? Why not a totally different world?

Related question: Why must there be ignorance in the first place at all? Why must there be the delusion of self? Why not just infinite awareness right from "our birth"? Why must there be a spiritual path in the first place?

Does Enlightenment give the answers to these questions?

 

[winterknight]

9 minutes ago, PetarKa said:

@winterknight If God / The Truth (whatever you want to call "it") is absolutely infinite and formless, then why is this "dream" of life this particular form. Why must we be human? Why must we live on Earth? Why not a totally different world?

Related question: Why must there be ignorance in the first place at all? Why must there be the delusion of self? Why not just infinite awareness right from "our birth"? Why must there be a spiritual path in the first place?

Does Enlightenment give the answers to these questions?

 

All these questions are based on a false assumption of ego. Enlightenment does not "give the answers" so much as dissolve the questions, show them to be ultimately incoherent. Yet enlightenment will give you peace -- these questions will not bother you.

There cannot really be said to be a dream, Earth, ignorance, delusion, or a spiritual path. Just hearing these words is not worth much, though.

You have to see what this means in your own direct experience.

Edited February 23, 2019 by winterknight

[SOUL]

On 2/17/2019 at 0:43 PM, winterknight said:

Bumping this

Who is bumping? Or... why is who bumping this? Exactly......

[ivory]

17 hours ago, winterknight said:

So then that "sense of I" that "doesn't seem to have any location"... just keep holding that sense all the time, every waking moment. Keep trying and trying to hold it. If your attention slips, bring it back.

Is it necessary to do some concentration exercises first, like following the breath to calm the mind? Or do you just go for it?

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, ivory said:

Is it necessary to do some concentration exercises first, like following the breath to calm the mind? Or do you just go for it?

You can just go for it. It is, after all, in itself a concentration exercise.

[ivory]

[Bauer1977]

Hey Winterkight, I know I said I wouldn't likely be back, as I truly believed that once I was able to comprehend God as every "thing", as well as being the will that drives it all, I didn't think there could be anything else to discuss. But, something new has developed. I am hoping you can help me with it.

I am still not "doing" anything, and my center is seemingly with the "I" as the observer at all times now. But something new has happened while doing Self-Inquiry the last couple of days. When deep within it, my center appears to be behind the "I". From my perspective the "I" appears as a beam of light (awareness) from out of nothingness directly in front of me. When looking to the side, there are dozens of other beams of awareness appearing out of nothingness as well. They are all pointing outward, they are at varying heights, but all appear to be at the same depth, which puts my perspective at a slightly greater depth within, or as, nothingness. Given my limited knowledge on the matter, this should be impossible given the fact that "I" can't be aware of "I", but of course the "I" is in front of me, so in a way "I" still isn't in the field of awareness technically speaking. And any attempts to try and center myself back at the level of "I" during Self-Inquiry have so far been unsuccessful. Is this just a matter of imagination, or is there something to it. What can you tell me about it if anything?

Edited February 24, 2019 by Bauer1977

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, Bauer1977 said:

Hey Winterkight, I know I said I wouldn't likely be back, as I truly believed that once I was able to comprehend God as every "thing", as well as being the will that drives it all, I didn't think there could be anything else to discuss. But, something new has developed. I am hoping you can help me with it.

I am still not "doing" anything, and my center is with the "I" as the observer at all times now. But something new has happened while doing Self-Inquiry the last couple of days. When deep within it, my center appears to be behind the "I". From my perspective the "I" appears as a beam of light (awareness) from out of nothingness directly in front of me. When looking to the side, there are dozens of other beams of awareness appearing out of nothingness as well. They are all pointing outward, they are at different heights, but all appear to be at the same depth, which is a depth just above my position, which puts me at a slightly greater depth within, or as, nothingness. Given my limited knowledge on the matter, this should be impossible, but any attempts to try and return to the level of "I" have so far been unsuccessful. Is this just a matter of imagination, or is there something to it. What can you tell me about it if anything?

There's a misconception here -- that there is a "level of the I." There is no such level, actually. That's precisely the misconception that self-inquiry is trying to dispel. Basically you (and everyone else) has confused some subtle perceptual or psychological phenomenon with the I.

To whom is this beam of light and these other beams occurring? Someone or something is observing those. That's the I feeling, whether you call it that or not.

Hold to that unswervingly and try to feel what it is that that is.

And if that becomes a beam or something else, then notice what that occurs to. That's how you go deeper and deeper -- until there is silent peace and clarity, with no more doubts and questions.

Edited February 23, 2019 by winterknight

[SriBhagwanYogi]

If we can put "God" in words = awarness without objective qualities, labels, jugements, peacefull unlimited space, here and now? ?

[Bauer1977]

5 hours ago, winterknight said:

There's a misconception here -- that there is a "level of the I." There is no such level, actually. That's precisely the misconception that self-inquiry is trying to dispel. Basically you (and everyone else) has confused some subtle perceptual or psychological phenomenon with the I.

To whom is this beam of light and these other beams occurring? Someone or something is observing those. That's the I feeling, whether you call it that or not.

Hold to that unswervingly and try to feel what it is that that is.

And if that becomes a beam or something else, then notice what that occurs to. That's how you go deeper and deeper -- until there is silent peace and clarity, with no more doubts and questions.

Thanks, I thought you would say something like that. The whole thing felt wrong to me. More like imagination than experience. The source of my misconception is no doubt from all the literature I have read over the years regarding God Consciousness and the supposed ultimate experience of being "everything". Is all that type of thing a false narrative?

Edited February 24, 2019 by Bauer1977

[winterknight]

54 minutes ago, Bauer1977 said:

Thanks, I thought you would say something like that. The whole thing felt wrong to me. More like imagination than experience. The source of my misconception is no doubt from all the literature I have read over the years regarding God Consciousness and the supposed ultimate experience of being "everything". Is all that type of thing a false narrative?

Well, it's just a pointer -- useful as far as it goes, but ultimately false. Or alternatively, there might be various "experiences" of unity -- but they are not the final truth.

The real thing can only accurately be expressed in silence.

[Bauer1977]

8 hours ago, winterknight said:

Well, it's just a pointer -- useful as far as it goes, but ultimately false. Or alternatively, there might be various "experiences" of unity -- but they are not the final truth.

The real thing can only accurately be expressed in silence.

You know, that's the exact conclusion that I had been starting to consider of late. The fact that you just confirmed it helps me a lot. Thanks again for your help Winterknight, your time and effort is appreciated as always.

[Hsinav]

@winterknight Leo often talk about how to go deeper and deeper Into the enlightenment experiences and to discover deeper states "within" the enlightenment. Do you have anything to say about that?

[winterknight]

40 minutes ago, Hsinav said:

@winterknight Leo often talk about how to go deeper and deeper Into the enlightenment experiences and to discover deeper states "within" the enlightenment. Do you have anything to say about that?

Well, the mind can become quieter and quieter, and there can be all kinds of 'experiences' as it does so... but enlightenment is one, and it is not a state at all -- it is and always has been the case.

[Waken]

On 24-2-2019 at 0:29 AM, winterknight said:

There's a misconception here -- that there is a "level of the I." There is no such level, actually. That's precisely the misconception that self-inquiry is trying to dispel. Basically you (and everyone else) has confused some subtle perceptual or psychological phenomenon with the I.

To whom is this beam of light and these other beams occurring? Someone or something is observing those. That's the I feeling, whether you call it that or not.

Hold to that unswervingly and try to feel what it is that that is.

And if that becomes a beam or something else, then notice what that occurs to. That's how you go deeper and deeper -- until there is silent peace and clarity, with no more doubts and questions.

Do you recommend attaining realization with this method for everyone?

Also, my experience makes me say there is no 'observer' or 'observered', there is just the appearance or experience, so these questions like 'what does experience appear to' get hard, or a bit frustrating to follow. Could the inquiry from the question 'what is this appearing to?' be replaced by 'what is the context for this/experience?' or 'what does this appear in?', as how I understand it it must be more like consciousness should be the paper and perception the words written on it.

Thank you, appreciated

Edit: When being in the place of 'knowing experience', it feels comfortable to be there, and a (subtle) sense of blissfullness can come up. Is that the I feel you talk about?

Edited February 25, 2019 by Waken

[Dumb Enlightened]

On 23/02/2019 at 8:29 PM, winterknight said:

There's a misconception here -- that there is a "level of the I." There is no such level, actually. That's precisely the misconception that self-inquiry is trying to dispel. Basically you (and everyone else) has confused some subtle perceptual or psychological phenomenon with the I.

To whom is this beam of light and these other beams occurring? Someone or something is observing those. That's the I feeling, whether you call it that or not.

Hold to that unswervingly and try to feel what it is that that is.

And if that becomes a beam or something else, then notice what that occurs to. That's how you go deeper and deeper -- until there is silent peace and clarity, with no more doubts and questions.

Something that helped me was to ask " Am I aware ?" and then trying to be aware that I am aware, and trying to hold onto it all the time.

[winterknight]

5 hours ago, Waken said:

Do you recommend attaining realization with this method for everyone?

Well, technically I don't just recommend self-inquiry by itself, I recommend it in the context of a larger path, one which includes having a decent intellectual framework and being honest about your desires.

Quote

 

Also, my experience makes me say there is no 'observer' or 'observered', there is just the appearance or experience, so these questions like 'what does experience appear to' get hard, or a bit frustrating to follow. Could the inquiry from the question 'what is this appearing to?' be replaced by 'what is the context for this/experience?' or 'what does this appear in?', as how I understand it it must be more like consciousness should be the paper and perception the words written on it.

 

If there is no observer or observed then who is it that has the desire for realization?

If there is no desire -- then that means there is peace -- then simply stay with that. If there is desire, then inquire into who has it.

In other words, either there is peace and clarity or there isn't. If there isn't, inquire into who is unclear and dissatisfied. If there is peace, then there will be no one to ask these questions.

Quote

 

Edit: When being in the place of 'knowing experience', it feels comfortable to be there, and a (subtle) sense of blissfullness can come up. Is that the I feel you talk about?

 

I don't know what you mean by "knowing experience," but if there a place of clarity & peace where you can still go about your daily life in that, then yes, stay with that.

1 hour ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

Something that helped me was to ask " Am I aware ?" and then trying to be aware that I am aware, and trying to hold onto it all the time.

Sure, that can work too, but the inquiry into the "I" is important because that is the construct which is dissatisfied and which desires and which thinks it does things. So it has to be seen for what it really is.

[Aeris]

why enlightened people needs to talk that much ?

[wavydude]

@Aeris Not all of them do.

Usually if you find something good you wanna share it, even if you find super funny meme you sending it to your friends so imagine you finding solution to literally all human suffering. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by wavydude