I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[winterknight]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

@winterknight Is what you are getting at with illusion in the same context of how, in the strictest sense, thinking/imagining any thing is a step too far?

Yes. "That there is an appearance" is itself a thought, and one based on a separate sense of I, which is also a thought. Cut the second thing and you cut the first.

The ego is the categorizer and namer, and its categories are all based on the duality of perceiver & perception, of "I" and "not-I." If the ego is recognized to be false, all the names and categories -- including the very idea of "thing" or "appearance" -- must all be seen as false as well.

And so Silence prevails.

[Bauer1977]

1 hour ago, winterknight said:

if you're bothered by this, it's because there is still a residual mental pattern identifying with the "illusion." Illusions are illusions -- i.e. they don't really exist. You still consider yourself to have been an individual and had a history. But if, as you've said before, I is God, how can that be the case?

"Even as an illusion" doesn't work... that is clinging.

If an actor has played his part in a movie where he seemed to get hurt, do we believe the actor suffered? Do we wish the actor would "wake up" out of his character faster?

It's not that I am bothered by it, it was what it was. And there is no doubt that there is more work to do. But there is a feeling that I am very close to where I want to be. And I don't feel the actor analogy works in this instance, because the process to Enlightenment is necessary in order to escape the illusion, and it is a struggle that feels very real to anyone who is lost within the illusion. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be any reason for you to offer advice to on this chat board. I think virtual reality is a better example. If a person believes they are going to get stepped on by a giant in a virtual world, the emotional response is genuine, even though the threat is not. And when that emotional response is owned, that's what matters to that person at that time, illusion or not.

Why I ask is because I don't think I can help others with their struggles if I deny the memory of my Ego perspective and my own experience. For almost everyone in this world the suffering is very real, and they can't simply choose to ignore it or pretend to suddenly be Enlightened, and act as though the knowledge of life being an illusion will bring them relief. With my own experience I have found it very frustrating at times when spiritually advanced people talk in terms that are unrelatable, and only from the perspective they now have, so their words can only truly be understood by other spiritually advanced people. As though they have forgotten what it was like to believe that you are real, and what it was like to deal with their own struggles in trying to understand things properly. There is real value in being relatable. The Red Book gives Carl Jung's work so much more value. It humanized him, It made him to be just like anyone else. Prior to it being released in the early 2000's, he just seemed like a genius that had access to God's mind which allowed him to know things that would be impossible for anyone else.

So once one understands the fact of the illusion, I don't think there is value in pretending that it no longer matters. Because for almost everyone else alive, its the only thing that matters. And their only way out if it, is to acquire the understanding they require in order to change their perspective.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bauer1977

[sword]

How long did it take to go from your first glimpse of the realization of union, to permanently grounding yourself in the realization? And, do you still feel like there is more to do?

Has your ego reconstructed itself, even though you are now aware of its nature? If so, how has it changed?

Is everything after enlightenment just play?

What will you do now that you are enlightened? create a life purpose?

Are you going to continue to self-actualize other facets of your life?

[Outer]

Are akilesh's words true?

[Outer]

Were you created from something inside of you?

[winterknight]

13 minutes ago, Bauer1977 said:

If a person believes they are going to get stepped on by a giant in a virtual world, the emotional response is genuine, even though the threat is not. And when that emotional response is owned, that's what matters to that person at that time, illusion or not.

The problem here is that the entire idea of a person who has emotional responses is itself part of the "virtual reality" if we take your example. No one can be said to actually have this emotional response.

Who is this person to whom that response matters? And perhaps it might be worth asking yourself -- to whom does it matter right now, this whole idea of others suffering?

10 minutes ago, sword said:

How long did it take to go from your first glimpse of the realization of union, to permanently grounding yourself in the realization? And, do you still feel like there is more to do?

Has your ego reconstructed itself, even though you are now aware of its nature? If so, how has it changed?

Is everything after enlightenment just play?

What will you do now that you are enlightened? create a life purpose?

Are you going to continue to self-actualize other facets of your life?

I'm not really interested in going into great autobiographical detail about my search, but I'll say that from the seeker's perspective it took 20 years of searching. The reality is that there is no such thing as "realization" -- that is part of the realization. And thus there can be no "more" to do, given that there was nothing ever to do, really. Though the seeker must proceed as if there is something to be done. From the mind's standpoint, the mind can always grow quieter and quieter, and that -- to the mind -- is what seems to be happening. In reality there is no such thing as mind.

These are the paradoxes of talking about this stuff.

There is no enlightenment and no "after." There is no "I" after enlightenment, so no question of life purpose. There really isn't, but if I spoke in that language I'd say -- the only purpose is to be, and all else comes involuntarily and spontaneously, unplanned -- even planning itself.

5 minutes ago, Outer said:

Are akilesh's words true?

How does this relate to your search? I don't think asking or answering these kinds of questions is too helpful.

[zambize]

Did you find affirmations or any other techniques useful in terms of programming your mind to be searching for that sense of I throughout the day? 

[sword]

@winterknight  thanks for answering my questions definitely not the answers I was expecting. Now I have a lot to think about

[Bauer1977]

8 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Who is this person to whom that response matters? And perhaps it might be worth asking yourself -- to whom does it matter right now, this whole idea of others suffering?

Hmmm.... I see what you are getting at. 

Interesting.... 

[Leo Gura]

This thread is starting to get out of hand with these ridiculous questions.

This is why Zen masters do not answer stupid questions. Because the ego-mind will create an infinite supply of them to avoid self-inquiry.

[SOUL]

4 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Yes, I'm suggesting that your understanding of illusion is missing something. If you're interested in discussing this further to deepen your understanding, I'm willing.

But if you're just interested in telling me how right you are, then I'm happy not to continue this conversation.

Why would you ask if I'm interested in discussing to "deepen understanding" when you also say it can't be understood with the intellect? So which is it? Actually, never mind, I know the answer.

I didn't intend to disturb you in your 'I am enlightened ask me anything' guru thread by pointing out the obvious so pardon me for interrupting your teaching of the incomprehensible using limited words.

Peace.

[Bauer1977]

56 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Who is this person to whom that response matters? And perhaps it might be worth asking yourself -- to whom does it matter right now, this whole idea of others suffering?

Hmmm.... I see what you are getting at. 

Interesting.... 

But if everything is God's will, as it appears to be. Doesn't the idea to help others (which is a positive) qualify? I mean, you don't exist either, so who is responding to me, how does that work? I mean even though everything is an illusion, we still do interact here with a purpose though, don't we? Are you not a person typing here the same as me?

Edited December 20, 2018 by Bauer1977

[Bauer1977]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This thread is starting to get out of hand with these ridiculous questions.

This is why Zen masters do not answer stupid questions. Because the ego-mind will create an infinite supply of them to avoid self-inquiry.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am genuine with my queries. 

[DrewNows]

@Leo Gurahe handles it quite well however and it’s been most insightful 

never have I had such a clear understanding of enlightenment approached from different angles 

[zambize]

Just now, DrewNows said:

@Leo Gurahe handles it quite well however and it’s been most insightful 

never have I had such a clear understanding of enlightenment approached from different angles 

Same!  Screw Leo we can't help but be idiots this thread has offered so much to me in such a clear way

[winterknight]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This thread is starting to get out of hand with these ridiculous questions.

This is why Zen masters do not answer stupid questions. Because the ego-mind will create an infinite supply of them to avoid self-inquiry.

 This is true, and there are some questions here that are less than meritorious, but there are a lot of genuine ones as well. I partly feel committed to "pay it forward" since I've had people patiently answer my questions as a seeker, and have learned so much from various Q&A dialogues with, e.g. Ramana Maharshi.

13 minutes ago, Bauer1977 said:

Hmmm.... I see what you are getting at. 

Interesting.... 

But if everything is God's will, as it appears to be. Doesn't the idea to help others (which is a positive) qualify? I mean, you don't exist either, so who is responding to me. How does that work? I mean even though everything is an illusion, we still do interact here with a purpose though, don't we?

Great choice of emoji. Yes, the idea to help others qualifies. But dig down deeper into the "I" and you might find that the very idea of a "purpose" doesn't really represent reality accurately... that in fact things happen "without a purpose."

[Bauer1977]

5 hours ago, winterknight said:

Great choice of emoji. Yes, the idea to help others qualifies. But dig down deeper into the "I" and you might find that the very idea of a "purpose" doesn't really represent reality accurately... that in fact things happen "without a purpose."

So if I ask you, who responds to people's questions here everyday as Winterknight?.... what is your response?

I feel I am to the point where I can brush away anything in awareness as the smaller "i" or the illusion whenever I choose to. When I am doing self inquiry, its so still, it's just being. If that's the perspective to be held always, and if that's the goal, why would the body ever need to move again. What makes your body move? Is it just happening on its own accord, with you as an almost disinterested detached witness?

Edited December 21, 2018 by Bauer1977

[Yog]

How/why did perception came into being ?

[Wisebaxter]

Ramana Marharshi talked about the true self residing in 'the heart on the right,' and that thoughts travel from the heart up to the head to become the 'I' thought. But if we're not our bodies, how can we say the true self resides in the heart? 

[winterknight]

4 hours ago, Bauer1977 said:

So if I ask you, who responds to people's questions here everyday as Winterknight?.... what is your response?

I feel I am to the point where I can brush away anything in awareness as the smaller "i" or the illusion whenever I choose to. When I am doing self inquiry, its so still, it's just being. If that's the perspective to be held always, and if that's the goal, why would the body ever need to move again. What makes your body move? Is it just happening on its own accord, with you as an almost disinterested detached witness?

Who says the body is moving? It is only when the mind leaves that place which is “so still, it’s just being” that someone says the body moves... 

So what is happening, then? Well, it is only when the mind leaves that place that THAT question is asked...

The same is true of the questions about who is responding to questions here. 

3 hours ago, Yog said:

How/why did perception came into being ?

Follow the path of self-inquiry and you’ll find out that it cannot be said ever to have come into being.

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

Ramana Marharshi talked about the true self residing in 'the heart on the right,' and that thoughts travel from the heart up to the head to become the 'I' thought. But if we're not our bodies, how can we say the true self resides in the heart? 

Yes, this is an unfortunately common misunderstanding. The Heart simply means the Self. All the right side of the body stuff is only meant for those who currently identify themselves other the body, as a way of helping them go beyond it, as a bridge to a better understanding.

Edited December 21, 2018 by winterknight